Back by popular demand.. WHO CARES?!

[TMPikachu]

/smn gives you the best INT boost of any sub for blm

what does /whm bring? well, white magic, of course.

But... if one is in a party with a whm, do you really absolutely need another healer? I guess it would come in handy for fudge ups.

the extra MP and refresh of summoner would=less downtime for the party wouldn't it?


on the job debate...

well, sure, do your thing. But honestly, a rdm/blm will get more invites than rdm/war.
You are not 'giving in' or anything. Don't feel like you're fighting against conformity, or that you'll be a 'boring' cookie cutter character.

Workable combos still have variety

say... Warrior main
/mnk, you gain counter attack and dodge, great for tanking
/sam, you focus on skill chaining for damage
/thief, you can do sneaky moves
/nin, dual wielding and tricky tanker

[Shiia]

Not true, having more than 1 stat remover in the party is always bring benefits. When whm are busy healing you can cast the Ba-ra line of spells for elemental protection. For mobs that deals AoE status effect such as anticans for AoE silence its always good to have 2 characters removing its status. Its not only about heals via Cure having a Whm sub you know...

[OmegaZero]

If you want to enhance Nuking, don't do SMN sub, do RDM sub. The little bit extra INT can easily be made up in equipment, but you can't replace the fast cast and extra RDM spells you get. BLM/RDM can still heal, and is a very viable combination and will not be shuned at all.

The problem with SMN is sub you don't get added abilities and spells that a mage needs. The SMN sub's refresh ability will help you minimully, but I personally haven't run out of MP in a well setup PT since I hit 40, so you won't really use it. The only justificatoin that anyone has produced is more MP and the autorefresh ability, or that you are being "unique". I won't even go into the unique arguement becausefrankly people are mainly doing it for attention, but most of the people that have been for this point either aren't BLM's, or aren't even level 50 so they wouldn't know if it is even useful at all. Mine, and many others' experience is you need to have healing magics for you to be the most useful for your PT. Even if you never use these abilities, you will still be able to cover any freak accident that may come and help the PT stay alive. Just escaping after every problem that comes up gets really annoying and will slow exp down a whole lot, and nuking is only going to create more problems in cases where the puller gets aggroed or a mob pops by your camp and links. I use the -na spells in my PT's so the WHM doesn't have to stop healing to do it. This makes healing much less stressful on the WHM and makes the PT go faster, thus gaining more exp and PTing less. PTing less means more time for fun things, which you can do your BLM/SMN thing for if you absolutely want to.

Almost everything in life requires you to do something not fun in order to do something fun. It makes the things that are fun, more fun when you know how much you worked for it. One RL example of this is: working 8 hours a day at a fast food restaurant to get enough money to go on a date with you girlfriend/boyfriend. Fast food jobs, for 90% of the world, is not considered fun, and to most people, dating is fun.

I will do obsurd combinations like BLM/NIN when I go and skill up because it is fun, and I can skill up two weapons at the same time. When you are in situatoins where you aren't going to be easily killed (the case being skilling up) it is ok as long as your PT members agree.

[Irinicus]

Ok if you have BLM/SMN that can be bad. I don't see why any mage would want to sub SMN. Personally I am going for SMN/BLM. Thats right subbing BLM instead. This way all my summons will have their true potential with higher lvls. So IMO do not go BLM or any mage /SMN, but do the reverse and make SMN your main.

[Arturo-B]

Originally posted by FFXITsukasa
As I see it Black Mage Summoner is better than Black Mage/ White Mage or maybe even Black Mage/ Red Mage because the Summoner job adds Auto-Refresh which is in general a good thing.

I don't agree. I've played with many summoners, and auto-refresh is nice, but not really all that impressive as it's so slow. As a whm I have auto-regen, and it's so slow it's really not at all useful unless I'm perhaps farming and fighting things that can barely damage me. The amount of time it takes to autoregen even 100 hp is pretty long, and I've got over 500. The MP bonus is kind of cool, but again having those extra cure spells can really help out in a pinch with adds.

As a blm, losing the ability to backup cure regularly, as well as the WHM status spells would be pretty damaging I think to the party. As others have said, solo with whatever you want, but I can't see how you can make /smn more viable for your party than /whm.

Best Regards,
Alex

[xth]

Get on your server and do a /sea 60-75 all....

On Leviathan(3400-3500+ people and LOTS of highlevels) I saw ZERO blm/smn and only 1-2 blm/rdm.

Blm/Whm is popular for a reason...and if the highest levels in the game (the ones who've spent the most time on their job and know it very very well) do it, then there has to be a reason for it.

In a game where you fight the same lizards and crabs for 30 levels and everyones armor looks the same...Dont expect to be unique

[Arturo-B]

Originally posted by xth
Get on your server and do a /sea 60-75 all....

On Leviathan(3400-3500+ people and LOTS of highlevels) I saw ZERO blm/smn and only 1-2 blm/rdm.

Blm/Whm is popular for a reason...and if the highest levels in the game (the ones who've spent the most time on their job and know it very very well) do it, then there has to be a reason for it.

In a game where you fight the same lizards and crabs for 30 levels and everyones armor looks the same...Dont expect to be unique

Ha ha ha. Indeed! Around 30 I was tossing around the idea of whm/smn for the extra mp, but after doing a /sea whm 60-75, and seeing ALL whm/blm, I gave that idea up pretty quick. At the very worst, I figure they may know something I didn't. So far I find the blm utilities and conserve mp to be well worth the trade for a bit of extra mp.

[Kirara]

when you chose a sub, it does not become your final sub
even though most time my black mage sub white mage, as seeing it's more useful in about 99% of the situations
it doesn't mean my blm doesn't sub summoner once a while wen it's needed.
sub job is just there for situation change. for black mage the usual choises are white mage, and some times red mage and rarely summoner. but there are times that i do sub summoner, sometimes you just have to cut a blackmage's ability to heal in extreme situations

when a black mage can sub summoner and works out?
in the fenrir battle i didn't heal once at all, i didn't sub summoner but i could (eventhough that would void my stone skin, however not like it really was used anyways)
HNM Hunts where blackmage is main damage dealer

[Serif]

Originally posted by TMPikachu
/smn gives you the best INT boost of any sub for blm

what does /whm bring? well, white magic, of course.

But... if one is in a party with a whm, do you really absolutely need another healer? I guess it would come in handy for fudge ups.

the extra MP and refresh of summoner would=less downtime for the party wouldn't it?

I see your level on the below your name and I can understand why you are saying this. Low level PTs on need 1 healer.

I am a 55 BRD and I am the support Healer. Getting around 20+ I tend to try to find 2 Healers, Tank, BRD is possible, 2 Melee.

Having 2 WHM or WHM, RDM or WHM, BLM, etc., you have possibilities to get higher exp chains which can add up to actually getting the same exp from killing an extra monster.

Lets say this
First Kill = 175
Chain 1 = 195
Chain 2 = 215
Chain 3 = 225
Chain 4 = 240

You gain an extra 70 exp and then you might have downtime. And this is taking in the effect that you keep your chain going. At higher levels I agree that exping tends to suck. Especially for BRD, RDM, PLD I think. Either we don't Finale/Dispel/Keep Hate. And then the PT is like Rawr. Singing all the songs and paying attention to the monster is annoying. But back to the point, at higher levels you need atleast a RDM,WHM or a BRD, WHM or a BRD, RDM. It tremendously helps out exp.

Bleh now I have to go to my stupid College Math class. ˆˆ

[Tavian_Northe]

hey

Sorry i havent had time to read the entire conversation here, but i think that the whole idea of making a blackmage/summoner is a great idea. It makes the whole game a lot more diverse if there are diverse characters in it. And if someone wants to swing around that stick up their, well, let them. If they dont like a blm/smn then they dont have to be in a party with you.

Meanwhile ill go with a blm/smn anyday. lord knows my dragoon/redmage would benifit from it.

Well see you all around.

Tavian

[almighty_boof]

/clap

Yay! i love that post! Too bad some ignorant bastard is going to try and shut it dopwn with "Oh but it isn't your own game, it is EVERYBODY'S game!" You know what i say to them? Screw you! This is my game! I may play with other people and there are a lot of fools out there that won't take a person because their sub is "crappy" but the game isn't about being all you can be! It's about meeting people and having fun with them! Just because some people want to have a job and sub that they want to have means that they are being a bad player? Well I feel bad for people like me who strive to become a BLM/SUM and others put it down because its not of the "norm".

Screw being the same! I never want to be like everybody else! i say all of us who are into being different start a riot and tear down all the "normal" people! Well, seeing that almost everyone in this game is "normal" and we have "gimped" subs we will lose but who cares! I'm making a point and there are a lot of people who are close minded (and oddly enough call me close minded) to think that things should be a certain way. Anybody who is in Garuda and has a sub that all the "normal" people don't want, I am totally there for them! You can come to my character anytime! ^_^

Oh and screw you in advance to all those people put there who are going to tear my "ignorant" thread to shreads. Stop arguing about how things are "supposed" to be and let people do what THEY want, not what YOU want!

[Sadeira]

i said it before and i'll say it again

play however you want, fine
make a unique job combo, fine
post about how much you care about how much fun you're having, fine

BUT DON'T COME BACK HERE COMPLAINING BECAUSE IT TAKES YOU 80 FULL HOURS BEFORE SOMEONE INVITES YOU TO A PARTY

ffxi isn't about you, you, you. if it were, then people would only have to solo to advance quickly. ffxi is about the party. if the rdm or whm cannot keep up with cures then it's up to you to stop nuking and help keep the tank cured. i helped save countless parties because i stopped nuking and started curing when the situation turned grim (such as a bad pull or an unexpected pop). blm/smn have nothing to offer to a party other than more mp to pull the aggro off of the pld or, worse yet, a nin/war. so you pull the aggro off of the nin/war because you overnuke and you eat dirt (or concrete or cermet). does the tank suck? nope. do you suck? yes. too much nuking and not enough holding back. since nin/wars don't have the inherent and efficient hate holding abilities of the pld.

no one wants a blm/smn because a blm/smn cannot sneak/invisible themselves. it's added dead weight really since that means it's another person for the whm or rdm to sneak/invis through an aggro zone. especially since the exp hot spots at level 58+ requires parties to go through mobs that would aggro even level 75 players. at level 50+, all mages are expected to have sneak and invisible spells and they're expected to sneak/invis themselves and one other person.

about the only advantage you have is that there COULD be less down time which is attributed to you having (a gimped) auto-refresh and the fact that you don't have to throw out cures. of course, blms are expected rest more often and longer than a whm or rdm. so the refresh part is pretty much a moot point.

in short, enjoy your 80 hours of pt seeking in lower jeuno. hope that you will have friends willing to make a permanent pt with you after level 50 cause it's pretty much guaranteed you won't be able to get into any pick up parties to cape terrigan, the boyahda tree, or kuftal tunnel.

[Shiia]

Unless of course you want to buy them costy Prism and oil powders. They cost around 12k per stack. Around 50s you travel to same exping spot as lower 30s but of course you need to go through agro mobs via sneak and invis. Take the lvl 56+ camp spot for instance. Kuftal you have Aggroing crab, Ghosts, and on some occation there is a NM wyver roaming around. In Cape terrigan you have gobs, raptors, pugils and crabs. Elementals are roaming on weather days.

It is your game when you are soloing. Partial true when you are with group of LS or friends who understands you. And it will not become your game when partying with strangers. If you can't figure why, then good luck finding parties.

[FFXITsukasa]

I still agree with the moderator guy that posted here. Ugh the one with the War craft panda as his avatar. Sorry, I dont know your name yet. :spin: In any case I would rather support my main like you said.

[Tavian_Northe]

ME ME ME

Whats up with all the people that are all like "the game isnt about YOU YOU YOU"?! I bought the damn thing!!!!!! If YOU YOU YOU wanna whine your crap covered nether-region off about origionality then start a new thread called "im a friggen whinny retard" meanwhile lets get back to why this thread is about: What Odd class combos do others like.

Tavian