Pandy Warden Killed last night!

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

But the glaring point that you are forgetting is SE was on top of the drk/kraken tactic right away because they felt it was wrong. People have been logging out at NM's for YEARS now and SE hasn't implemented anything to stop it.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Kraken DRK = Exploit.

Actually, this reminded me: this situation with Pandemonium Warden is exactly like the Kraken DRK versus AV thing: you had the people who knew it as such, and you had the people who tried to justify it as a "legitimate strategy," no matter how wrong they were, until the bitter end (AV's Souleater resistance patch).

To me, this is the same story: history merely repeating itself. Of course, some of the people in attempt to justify the log out to avoid AF scheme will predictably come up and say "no, you're wrong, this is different!", but I have the sense to know otherwise.

[Rodin]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I'm starting to get really tired of people bitching whenever an HNM is finally defeated. Ok, it was killed...instead of whining about people logging out during astral flow (Which to me, seems like a smart fucking idea), maybe you guys could take a hint and start killing it yourselves. If you think about it, Kite Party + killing Kirin Summons with outside alliance = Exploit. Kraken DRK = Exploit. NOBODY complained when people would log out to reset hate on CoP Wyrms so they wouldn't flail. I want to know how SE expects us to survive things like Comet/Meteor from AV, and Astral Flow from PW? You still get one-shotted while you have fully merited Shellra V on. Astral Flow is a random avatar, so you can't reliably use a certain bar-spell. You can't stun the avatar either....Also, Astral Flow is instant......what's it called when you have an instant use move that wipes an entire alliance? Oh yeah, it's called an iWin button. This LS found out how to survive AF, kudos to them for thinking outside the box. In my opinion, exploiting the game only includes using bots/hacks to kill NMs. Think about it this way. If so many people hadn't bitched about how Apathy killed AV, how many of you would have a Ninurta's Sash right now? How many would have a Futsuno Mitama? (Yes, I'm aware that when AV was first killed, they didn't get any drops, but it wasn't confirmed why there were no drops, it was only a rumor that the GMs interviened.)

[Sabaron]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Hey now, BRD/NIN has it's little meripo niche <_<

But I agree with the COR/WHM sentiment.

It does, but I have never found a use for it outside chain-pulling /WHM is vastly superior in every other way. Anyone who would wear /NIN outside of a meripo is generally a "fucktard" which brings us to why we use BRD/NIN in meripos:

1. BRD/NIN is (obviously) only used by a Puller Bard never by a Stationary Bard.
2. The Puller Bard in a meripo moves around so much that he/she only has enough time to sing roughly two songs (Victory March and Advancing March generally), and pull.
3. Blink and Stoneskin take much longer to cast than Utsusemi.
4. B & SS consume MP which a puller bard won't be getting back since they don't go back for Ballad.
5. B & SS cannot be easily recast when tanking new pulls in the event of a failed lullaby (or two).
6. Puller Bard doesn't have time to heal or remove debuffs and isn't "home" enough to be a reliable backup healer anyway.

There is an exception to this that arises in crowded camps, however. If a camp is overpopulated, the fastest way for a Bard to pull is with Dia (1 second casting time without fast cast) which means that if overcrowding is evident, BRD/WHM (or BRD/RDM) is a better choice since Voke pullers and other Dia pullers will usually grab the mob before you can with Elegy (casting time 2 seconds or 1.3 with Minstrel's Ring and Yigit Gomlek).

[ruffrydasean]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Our next major boss will take 3 days to kill and can only be defeated by scanning the death certificates of 5 team members.

Four people die and you don't get a F&%#ING thing.

Lol

[Malacite]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

BRD/NIN fucktards

Hey now, BRD/NIN has it's little meripo niche <_<

But I agree with the COR/WHM sentiment.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

JP Button seems to think we're just now getting the jump on JPs? Only recently?

Um, no, we've been doing that for a few years now. Job-wise they tend to play far too conservatively - even compared to NAs - and most have taken things to a more social level since NAs became more prominent in endgame.

Of course, the NAs with a JP fetish don't help matters

/glares at the multitude of COR/WHM and BRD/NIN fucktards, among other things.

[Malacite]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Anyone read the comments on JP-Button? The last one is hysterical;

572: I’d love to go into fanfest with a baseball bat with ‘Absolute virtue’ written on it.
I wouldn’t hurt anyone, just walk around smashing tables, displays, merchandise.
When begged to stop, I would simply say “YOU HAVE TO STOP IT’S REGEN.” then continue smashing.
AVって書いたバット持ってファンフェスタに乗り込みたいãã€‚
人を殴るわけじゃないが、テーブルやディスプレイ、ã‚ャラクターグッズをぶち壊して回りたい。
やめるよう言われたらシンプルにこう言う「奴のオートリジェネをæ¢ã‚ã‚ã€ã€‚でまた壊し続ける。

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I don't know why you still are talking like alliance member swaps are an exploit - they are not an exploit. Never have been, never will be.

Again, that is your opinion. Personally, I'd say that circumventing the limits of how many people you can have in a party/alliance by having people constantly leave and join the party as it is convenient is just as much an exploit as logging out, zoning, or whatever else to dump hate.

Was changing the levels OP warps were available to Valkrum stupid, too? By your logic, changing that is appeasing players.

No, and no. Travel should be pretty easy, yes. OP warps are fine. Putting Nomad Moogles there MAKES NO SENSE. That is sacrificing the integrity of the world to appease players. Changing OP warp levels makes no difference, and makes perfect sense. Hell, adding a moghouse would've made more sense.

By your logic, nerfing RNGs was to appease other DDs.

Wrong again. RNG was nerfed because it was just plain unbalanced. Balancing the game is never a bad thing.

RNG is fine, its not broken anymore.

I'm surprised you didn't say "RNG still exists!", as literally as you're taking my comments. I know, it's been fine for awhile. It's called a joke; it's funny because SE made sweeping changes to a job, and afterwards it was practically unused for a time. Hence saying they deleted it. Again, the point isn't "SE nerfed RNG and they suck now lawl", it's "SE let RNG be very unbalanced for quite awhile, but that didn't mean they accepted it: in fact, their solution was so extreme that it nearly killed the job."

BBQ, if you ever need me to spell out things like this in the future, please PM me so I don't have to ruin the joke for everyone else.

[Malacite]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

They could apply Raise Weakness to people who joined the alliance after fighting started. Leaves room for error but you can't immediately put "newcomers" to the alliance to good use.

You can if they are BLU >.>


They were doing full dmg cannonballs with double-weakness (some probably even triple) If anything, as kaeko pointed out that's the factor that is likely to see a nerf.


EDIT: Also, in regard to ranged attacks.. what if they changed the fSTR scale to 3:2 as opposed to 2:1? That would bump it up a bit more (I still feel ranged attacks don't hit hard enough compared to the damage melee, especially SAM can do now) but still not give a 1 to 1 ratio which really would be far too strong.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

The point isn't "These specific issues prove my opinion!" it's "SE doesn't always act right away when they can't find a perfect solution to something, here are some examples." For example, how can they keep people from swapping members (or logging out!) without also punishing people for disconnections? People who show up late? And what about those longer fights where people need to swap out so they can get on with their lives; while not using swaps as an exploit?

Feba, disconnects happen without a proper logout procedure, the system itself already knows the difference. There's an error code for server-side time-outs and client-side disconnects. All the system has to do is recall which status the user was in upon login. If the player didn't follow the proper logout procedure, there should be some kind of record of it.

I don't know why you still are talking like alliance member swaps are an exploit - they are not an exploit. Never have been, never will be. SE fully realizes that people have to come and go. But if you're leaving during a pop NM fight, unless that mob dies, you should have hate for it. You picked the fight. If you're just going to come right back, you should still be considered a target if that mob is still breathing.

People who show up late are just showing up late in the game... I don't even see the point you're trying to make with that. They'd get swapped in, they'd get hate. That's functioning as intended.

And then you get to the point where they do things that they know are stupid, to appease the fanbase; see Nomad Moogles in Selbina.

Umpteenth time - The game doubled its land mass in WotG, many Valkurm alternatives opened up. Why dick players over with gimping thier travel options here? If there's a better, empty camp in a WotG area or you just decide you want to do some FoV EXP, why keep less convienent to get around? There wasn't a need to change it in ToA - ToA was high level content. There wasn't a need in CoP or RoZ to change it, there were very few alternatives, one just back across the ferry.

Was changing the levels OP warps were available to Valkrum stupid, too? By your logic, changing that is appeasing players. By your logic, nerfing RNGs was to appease other DDs. It wasn't. RNG was broken, the problem was SE's "solution" broke the job in a completely new way - they made ranged attacks totally worthless for all jobs. All jobs, not just RNG.

They have since fixed that. They fixed the ranged formulas so that food, trait and gear bonuses were calculated in ranged attacks and WS especially. They gave RNGs Snapshot and Velocity Shot, our own exclusive form of Haste. We're as close to where we originally were as we're ever going to get.

RNG is fine, its not broken anymore. Its not dead, its just people are now too cheap to play it given all the T and VT cannon fodder mobs out there and the brokeness of Sanction's EXP buff.

People can EXP like RNGs once did right now, didn't you get the memo?

[Armando]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

The point isn't "These specific issues prove my opinion!" it's "SE doesn't always act right away when they can't find a perfect solution to something, here are some examples." For example, how can they keep people from swapping members (or logging out!) without also punishing people for disconnections? People who show up late? And what about those longer fights where people need to swap out so they can get on with their lives; while not using swaps as an exploit?

They could apply Raise Weakness to people who joined the alliance after fighting started. Leaves room for error but you can't immediately put "newcomers" to the alliance to good use. Or give those encounters an overhaul so they're instanced and only admit 18 people in, like mission fights. I would lean towards the former as being an acceptable and relatively straightforward solution if they really thought member swapping is unacceptable.

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Just because SE doesn't bring the nerf hammer down immediately on unacceptable tactics it doesn't mean that they don't do anything about it.

The point isn't "These specific issues prove my opinion!" it's "SE doesn't always act right away when they can't find a perfect solution to something, here are some examples." For example, how can they keep people from swapping members (or logging out!) without also punishing people for disconnections? People who show up late? And what about those longer fights where people need to swap out so they can get on with their lives; while not using swaps as an exploit?

And then you get to the point where they do things that they know are stupid, to appease the fanbase; see Nomad Moogles in Selbina.

[Armando]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Also keep in mind that SE not doing anything about something isn't an indication of that thing being acceptable to them. Remember pentaspam? Also, there used to be a really awesome job called RNG; they reigned as 'omgwtfdd' for many moons before SE deleted them.

But SE did do something about both; and it may have taken a while, but in the grand scheme of things neither phenomenon lasted very long in comparison to how long we've been swapping members in and out of alliances. If SE really considered it an unfair/illegal tactic, they would've done something about it by now like they've done in the past with several other issues (Wall of Justice, AV Souleater resistance, NM cummulative magic resistance, mob targeting behavior when bound, Salvage/Nyzul/Einherjar item dupe tricks, etc).

I don't know, it looks like a weak argument to me. Just because SE doesn't bring the nerf hammer down immediately on unacceptable tactics it doesn't mean that they don't do anything about it.

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Also keep in mind that SE not doing anything about something isn't an indication of that thing being acceptable to them. Remember pentaspam? Also, there used to be a really awesome job called RNG; they reigned as 'omgwtfdd' for many moons before SE deleted them.