Pandy Warden Killed last night!

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I wouldn't go that far. It depends on how you look at it. For example, EVE online doesn't have a level system at all; and you never have to grind. In fact, with a bit of time and money, you could get a rather powerful character without even touching the game. But EVE online's world is in a way far more interesting than FFXI's-- the storyline is certainly not as good, but you know those little squabbles that happen in the playerbase; be it inside LS, between LSs members, or just random drama? In EVE online, THAT CHANGES THE WORLD.

One scenario I remember well from when I played; there was a plot event, a riot on some planet or moon somewhere along the border between two (storyline) empires. The RP forums lit up with people talking about it (not only do they have official forums dedicated to role playing, but the forums are worked into canon. Plus, because of the terminology used in the game, you can roleplay without seeming like a nerd; it can take quite a bit of conversation to figure out if someone is roleplaying or just chatting). Eventually, also as part of the plot event, a convoy of NPC ships were sent to the riots. A group of RPers shot them down, out of storyline territorial games, and the ships being shot down was worked into the story.

You're even allowed to scam other players, so long as you don't exploit the game to do it.

Now, none of these ideas would work well in FFXI; and no-effort leveling probably wouldn't either. But that doesn't mean they aren't valid ideas. Why should leveling be something that's arduous and takes months? Why should the developers worry about having to create content that is almost solely for new players, when they can make content for endgame and make it easy for new players to get there? Now, that idea doesn't apply nearly so much to FFXI because of its job system. You don't just get to the end, and that's it. You get to the end, but you still have two dozen (wait a few months) jobs sitting there mocking you. FFXI would need to make the grind even quicker than WoW to overcome that.

[Malacite]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Exactly. I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think that FFXI is one of the best MMOs out there, if not THE SINGLE BEST MMO THAT HAS EVER BEEN ON THE MARKET. I think I could honestly say that without exaggerating one bit. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have deep and serious flaws, especially in the UI aspect. And flaws should be fixed.

My thoughts exactly. For all the griping I do about the game, I still love it to death. There are just some things about I wish SE would change/fix.

From what I've heard of WoW lately, you can actually hit lv 80 in a week which means it's nothing but end-game;

Well that's a damn shitty way to design a game. Shouldn't you have fun immersing yourself in the world on your way up to the level cap, rather than simply breeze through it and then get lumped in with everyone else?

[ShepardG]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

I haven't played any other MMO(except GuildWars for like 2 weeks, it sucked), and I have never used a plugin to enhance my UI. I have used Kparser, and before SE implemented their own windower, I did use windower, but I never got any plugin's for it, because, well....I'm lazy and I never really cared enough. Being able to bounce back and forth between wiki and game was enough advantage for me I guess. With that said:

I would love to use the Win.net program to make the game look better, but that's about it. I've never cared about what the other players TP was, or how close I was to my recast timer being down (I like my 6th sense for that, I think it comes from running a refresh cycle).

It's weird to hear all this talk about how crappy the UI is when I've always thought it was great. I look at a WoW screen or an EQII screen and I'm like: "what the hell is all this crap on your screen, it's confusing".

I feel like most of the plug ins for W.net can compare to athlete's using HGH, hell even duping items could fall into this analitical scenario. (Even Kparser to an extent)

Athlete's use HGH because they want to be the best at their sport. Humans are competitive by nature, and that directly corelates into FFXI in the sense that we also want to be the best at our "Sport" also.

When it get's so hard to get out of bed because you beat the shit out of yourself playing 4 quarters of football the day before, it takes alot of willpower to get out of bed and go into the Gym and lift weights when your thigh's and midsection look like you had a UFC fighter practice their kicks on them.

When you log into Vana'diel and know that your going to spend the next 3-4 hours in dynamis grinding, or running through salvage trying to get a super rare piece of armor, it takes alot of wilpower to even be dedicated to participating in something like that.

And applying willpower to either Sport will mentally tire you out, on top of the physical stress.
(I know sitting at my computer desk for 4 hours puts a crick in my neck something fierce,clearly not to the extent of a football player, but I don't make 820 thousand dollars a game either)

When folks like football players and Final Fantasy players are given options like HGH and Duping items it dosen't surprise me that their aren't more doing it. FB players and FF players both understand the risk's involved in making the decision to "Cheat".

The enviroment that both individuals find themselves in, drives both to "Enhance their performance". Now on the flip side, you'll have the FB players and the FF players that feel that the risk's aren't worth the gains. It's the yin and the yang of the universe. Some will, some won't.

As far as W.net and the plugins it has available I feel fall somewhere into the gray area of this yin and yang anology. If you've heard of blood doping, I personally feel this is also in that gray area.

BloodDoping

Blood doping, in short, is when athlete's, such as lance armstrong weeks before a race, cut back almost 75% on their training regime, increase their caloric intake by 1000 calories a day, and basically let their body recover. Shortly there after, when the body is completely,or nearly so, healed, the body continues to oxygenate the blood and increase the levels of good chemicals that the body uses to recover. In that time, athelete's would have certain ammounts of their blood removed and stored, and they would then continue on with their rigorious training. Weeks later; days, sometimes hours, before a race; athlete's re-insert their own blood full of all those yummy nutrients that their own body produced, back into their system. When they then crank their performance output up to 100% for the race, their body has plenty of all the right chemicals it needs to reach, and maintain that performance level quicker and longer.

I think weather your for or against windower, or duping items, or HGH, or even blood doping, I don't think the arguement is weither either is right or wrong. I think it's the difference between what people enjoy.
Some people like being the best at their sport, above even the sport itself, while others like playing the sport above ever having the highest stat on the books. I personally feel this is where the argument stems from, and being able to understand it's origins is the first step in coming to a resolution agreed upon by both parties.

BASKETBALL ANOLOGY !!!1

I love playing basketball, but I will admit that I suck. I will never out score my friend Jeff (who can dunk) or even be picked over him, but this dosen't disuade me from playing, because I love playing basketball. Jeff loves playing basketball also, but he trains and trains so that he can be better than others. He loves being the best baskteball player on the court, more than he loves playing basketball. He dosen't necessarily care even if his team wins, so long as he played better than anyone else on either team. Etc. Etc. We value different things

Fortunatley or Unfortunatley there are Rules placed onto sports by SE and the NFL that says Action=Consequence. The Basis of the rules are very debatable, but they're there none-the-less.

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Also, we spit on WoW because our game has a storyline, and doesn't just hand everything to you. That's what makes FFXI a better game for some players.

Exactly. I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think that FFXI is one of the best MMOs out there, if not THE SINGLE BEST MMO THAT HAS EVER BEEN ON THE MARKET. I think I could honestly say that without exaggerating one bit. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have deep and serious flaws, especially in the UI aspect. And flaws should be fixed.

Whatever you think of players using third party programs like Windower and FFAssist to ADD to the interface, it's obvious that the interface as it is is owefully inadequate and could be easily improved; and already has been in more minor ways (macros). We're not talking even talking about making a fully customizable UI, or overhauling the graphics engine to Next Gen standards; although those should both be done eventually. We're talking about adding a few small modules to the existing UI, and allowing PC users to extend their Draw Distance to a REAL maximum, instead of some arbitrary one (and before you say this is unfair, keep in mind that the 360 version included a beefed up draw distance).

[Mog]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

/reads most recent posts

/goes back to enjoying FFXI

[hexx]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

First, not everyone bitching about the UI does still play. Two of the most vocal so far quit long ago. (Cue the "If you don't play anymore, quit whining" argument to complete the circle.)

Second, most of the bitching here is about the UI. One aspect (or a small subset of aspects, depending on how you look at it) of the game as a whole. It's a simple matter of weighing the positives and negatives. Just because someone dislikes one aspect of the game, and is actually vocal about it, doesn't mean that automatically counters everything they like about it.

Since we're all about lame analogies up in here, just because the fries are too damn salty doesn't mean this isn't one delicious fictitious combo meal I'm not really eating. Or just because I find the chairs at a restaurant really uncomfortable doesn't mean the food isn't worth the discomfort.

Where in my post did I say "everyone" is bitching? I said "A lot of you..." instead, which of course mean a decent group of people.

It may be a lame analogy, but it still gets the job done good sir! And yes, just because some parts are disliked, doesnt mean they cant like the game as a whole......but when you are so vocal about it, well..........it just leaves room for wondering wtf is up no?

All I'm doing is throwing in my two cents, it seems the topic has drifted from PW gettin killed, to a snowball fight with each side of the argument countering the other and pointing out the flaws in each others arguments. =P

[Ellipses]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

A lot of you like to bitch and moan that this game has so many things wrong with it, and yet, you fail to answer one simple question..........Why the fuck do you still play this game then???? Every time this question is asked, yall dodge it like dead-beat dad dodges paying child support. Seriously wtf is wrong with yall?

First, not everyone bitching about the UI does still play. Two of the most vocal so far quit long ago. (Cue the "If you don't play anymore, quit whining" argument to complete the circle.)

Second, most of the bitching here is about the UI. One aspect (or a small subset of aspects, depending on how you look at it) of the game as a whole. It's a simple matter of weighing the positives and negatives. Just because someone dislikes one aspect of the game, and is actually vocal about it, doesn't mean that automatically counters everything they like about it.

Since we're all about lame analogies up in here, just because the fries are too damn salty doesn't mean this isn't one delicious fictitious combo meal I'm not really eating. Or just because I find the chairs at a restaurant really uncomfortable doesn't mean the food isn't worth the discomfort.

[Armando]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

A lot of you like to bitch and moan that this game has so many things wrong with it, and yet, you fail to answer one simple question..........Why the fuck do you still play this game then???? Every time this question is asked, yall dodge it like dead-beat dad dodges paying child support. Seriously wtf is wrong with yall?

False. I answered that question several times. I'll answer it again. The UI is damned bad but the game is still playable, and FFXI has a bunch of other good qualities that make it worth sticking around. But the UI (and a couple of other unrelated things like animations stopping your movement) is still bad. Every game has flaws, some of them can be serious, etc. It's like asking "If Marth is so broken why do you still play Super Smash Bros Melee?" I played the shit out of that game - competitively and otherwise - for well over 4 years. It was still pretty damned broken though.

It's possible for both things to be true.

[DakAttack]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

You are right sir, that is quite a failure of a business strategy Blizzard has. Making the game more enjoyable for the people that pay them to play it? Inconceivable!

I love how FFXI players love to ride their high horse and spit on WoW because their game is so much more "difficult" that it makes them superior. Meanwhile, FFXI is ripping features straight from WoW and everybody just loves them. The Fields of Valor books might as well all be Orcs.

I look down on WoW for being the shrine in which Blizzard sacrifices integrity for money. If their players cared for a moment to learn what a partial reinforcement schedule is they might be moved enough to see the trick and just turn it all off.

[hexx]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

And other online games are ripping features from FFXI, your point being?

Also, we spit on WoW because our game has a storyline, and doesn't just hand everything to you. That's what makes FFXI a better game for some players.

And lastly, FFXI and WoW are marketed to two different markets, what works for one won't necessarily work for the other.

QFT.

A lot of you like to bitch and moan that this game has so many things wrong with it, and yet, you fail to answer one simple question..........Why the fuck do you still play this game then???? Every time this question is asked, yall dodge it like dead-beat dad dodges paying child support. Seriously wtf is wrong with yall?

FFXI has its issues, I'll admit that, but the game isn't inherently flawed in regards to doing what its supposed to do. What is that you say?? Provide for a good time! You dont have a good time playing the game anymore?? Then please, answer the question at the end of line 2 paragraph 1 please.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

If they'd stop failing they wouldn't need to be told they fail, would they?

'kitten, I think this is a sign that you should just save your energy: arguing with someone who honestly thinks this would be time better sent persuading a brick wall.

[Vyuru]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

And other online games are ripping features from FFXI, your point being?

Also, we spit on WoW because our game has a storyline, and doesn't just hand everything to you. That's what makes FFXI a better game for some players.

And lastly, FFXI and WoW are marketed to two different markets, what works for one won't necessarily work for the other.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Fail.

It was designed for consoles first.

An unfortunate truth.

Logic of the Banned (circa Jan. 22 2009) - "I like to play poorly designed games and pay monthly for them."

I don't. FFXI isn't a poorly designed game. Its an MMO, all MMO need adjustments over time. You went in knowing this, you pay knowing this. So cut the crap already.

Shutting your eyes and pretending the problem isn't there doesn't make it go away. They need more time? 8 years isn't enough time to make the UI not a piece of shit?

How would you like to work hard everyday, only to be complimented once every three months and then you're told you "fail" the rest of the game.

Welcome to the FFXI dev team!

If they'd stop failing they wouldn't need to be told they fail, would they?

FFXI players these days are spiteful children and little more than that. If you don't like how it is - don't fucking play it. Quit.

Its that simple.

I don't play it. I quit some time ago, but this happens to be the only gaming related forum I can browse when I am on break at work.

Better? No. Easier? Yes. Blizzard continues to do everything in their power to make the game easier for their players. It's handy, but I wonder how much of that time could be better spent attempting to fix the problem of the game simply being sub-par.

You are right sir, that is quite a failure of a business strategy Blizzard has. Making the game more enjoyable for the people that pay them to play it? Inconceivable!

I love how FFXI players love to ride their high horse and spit on WoW because their game is so much more "difficult" that it makes them superior. Meanwhile, FFXI is ripping features straight from WoW and everybody just loves them. The Fields of Valor books might as well all be Orcs.

[Feba]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Its that simple. I don't continue to play games I don't enjoy from a design standpoint

Fucking. Liar.

How would you like to work hard everyday, only to be complimented once every three months

First of all, I'd like to know what makes you think that FFXI's dev team works hard. Secondly, plenty of people work hard on all sorts of things. That doesn't mean their work is any good!

I bet it took hard work to make the Tower of Pisa. It's a rather beautiful building, too. That doesn't mean it's foundation isn't fundamentally flawed.

Every bad game you've played in the last decade probably took a lot of hard work. Same for every bad movie you've seen, every bad song you've heard, and every bad book you've read. That doesn't make them good, or even acceptable. It doesn't mean we need to coddle their makers.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Pandy Warden Killed last night!

Fixed. FFXI would be a better game if it weren't designed like shit to cater to the consoles.

Fail.

It was designed for consoles first. It was retrofitted to cater to PC users, not the other way around.

You don't have to suck SE's cock on everything. I like FFXI too, but I can still see that the game is poorly designed in a lot of ways. You shouldn't need to run a 3rd party program just to bring FFXI up to speed with every other MMO in existence.

Logic of the Banned (circa Jan. 22 2009) - "I like to play poorly designed games and pay monthly for them."

I don't. FFXI isn't a poorly designed game. Its an MMO, all MMO need adjustments over time. You went in knowing this, you pay knowing this. So cut the crap already.

How would you like to work hard everyday, only to be complimented once every three months and then you're told you "fail" the rest of the game.

Welcome to the FFXI dev team!

FFXI players these days are spiteful children and little more than that. If you don't like how it is - don't fucking play it. Quit.

Its that simple. I don't continue to play games I don't enjoy from a design standpoint, why do you?