General Discussion

[Mezlo]

Re: General Discussion

If it ends up being true that the abilities you've been stacking do not in fact stack... I will permit you to change one of them.

This sounds fair and I don't take it as an attack, no worries. The only thing that bothered me is that I might be stuck with a feat that I'd never use that up until now we all thought was kosher. As long as I can change it, I'm cool with it. And waiting until you get back is fine enjoy your FL time, I wasnt expecting anything until next week anyways with the holidays upon us. And I'm sure Fire is right in regards to Rapid Shot and Focus Shot not stacking after reading Armandos post, it makes sense. Fire is not right however in regards to needing a +7 BAB in order to use Rapid Shot to get 2 shots, and he's not right in thinking you don't need the Weapon Focus feat in either bow or shortbow to unlock Arcane Archerer.

[Armando]

Re: General Discussion

You can make an additional ranged attack.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.

Your anatomical insight adds deadliness to your shots.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.

Benefit: As a standard action, you may make an attack with a bow or crossbow and add your Intelligence modifier on the damage roll. You must be within 30 feet of your target to deal this extra damage. Creatures immune to critical hits and sneak attacks are immune to this extra damage.

Special: Starting at 2nd level, a ranger with the archery combat style may select Focused Shot as a combat style feat.

You can fire multiple arrows at a single target.

Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.

Source: Pathfinder_OGC

[Yygdrasil]

Re: General Discussion

Since I'm in Florida, I don't have the necessery books to confirm or deny any of this. It'll all have to wait until I get home to make a judgment call.

I hope you don't think of it as a personal attack, Mezlo... but some of what Fire is talking about sounds right and Armando's assessment of the differene between Standard and Full Round actions is as well. If someone can post the descriptions of each of the Feats and abilities and actions that are being brought into question, I can attempt to rule on it some time tonight. For now though, It'll have to wait.

If it ends up being true that the abilities you've been stacking do not in fact stack... I will permit you to change one of them. Understand that a severely broken combination (that shouldn't be possible) that goes unnoticed should not be permitted to continue. It might not sound fair to you, but it's also not fair to the rest of the party who are not exploiting such a loophole (knowingly or unknowingly).

I'll decide when I have the facts.

[Mezlo]

Re: General Discussion

I have 18 dex already

[Armando]

Re: General Discussion

Your interpretation of Manyshot + Rapid Shot is correct, although do keep in mind you need 17 DEX in addition to BAB+6.

[Mezlo]

Re: General Discussion

I'm guessing your confusion stems from the fact that a Full Attack allows you to do anything you can do with a regular attack. However, Focused Shot is not a regular attack; it's a different Standard Action altogether.

Yeah, let's see what Yyg decides to do, keep going or change the way we're going to handle it. If we do change it hopefully i can pick another feat, because I would never use them seperately.

Also, Fire please way in on my many shot / rapid shot comment. The way I read it, they should work together and operate the way I spelled out in my earlier post. PLease let me know if that's not the case.

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Yyg, on this cloak, the +4 AC, is that a deflection bonus or a natural AC bonus or like a magic + AC bonus? I'm guessing it's not in the category of armor AC since it's just a robe. I'm just trying to determine what category its in so i know what can stack with it.

Flaming Robe
- Crimson colored cloak, AC+4, Fire Resistance +10, 5lbs
- Once per day the wearer may speak a key phrase (Currenlty "Flame On") and invoke the power of the robe. When the incantation is spoken, 4 orbs of fire approximately 6 inches in diameter manifest from the robe's sleeves and circle slowly around the wearer at waist height. Invoking the cloak is considered a free action.
- As a standard action, the wearer can pick up and throw one of the orbs at an opponent or object at a range of 60ft. The orbs detonate on first contact with a foreign object and deal 1d6 damage to that object.
- Once thrown, the orbs travel in a straight line at a rate of 30ft/round. Their path cannot be altered by any means (including wind).

[Armando]

Re: General Discussion

I thought a standard action allows me to attack and then move my distance allowed, where if I take a full round action, I can only take my 5 foot step, but I can do everything allowed in my standard actions.

A Full Round Action isn't something you can "take" any more than you can "take" a Standard Action or a Move Action. They're categories; you take particular instances of those categories.

Focused Shot is a Standard Action. A full attack (which Rapid Shot enhances) is a Full Around Action. Standard Actions and Full Round Actions are mutually exclusive; you either use one or the other. Otherwise, I'd able to Withdraw (FRA) and still attack (SA) or Full Defense (FRA) and attack (SA).

EDIT: I'm guessing your confusion stems from the fact that a Full Attack allows you to do anything you can do with a regular attack. However, Focused Shot is not a regular attack; it's a different Standard Action altogether.

[Mezlo]

Re: General Discussion

Anyway since you have Rapid Reload I really think you should stick to using Crossbows. They are compatible with Arcane Archer abilities, it is just you need the proficiencies in Longbow or Shortbow to unlock Arcane Archer.

Again, I dont think you are actually READING the descriptions of the feats and job prerequisites. Please do so. You are coming here and voicing opinions, which is good, but you're opinions aren't actualy rules and aren't fact. You've played D&D alot and I think you are trying to just rely on your memory instead of acutally reading the descriptions. Again, see below. I need a weapon focus in long bow or short bow. So i need to spend a feat on that anyways in order to unlock Arcane Archerer. I asked Yyg if i could stick with crossbow and he said no, and I'm cool with that. I'd like to get the feat of many shot with long bow anyways, which does stack with rapid shot. Go ahead and check now so we can discuss it now instead of waiting until after I've selected it and used it for 3 sessions and then you tell Yyg and I we are interpreting it incorrectly. Many shot requires rapid shot as a prerequisite and when the 1st arrow flies, 2 arrows are actually unleashed. I role 1 attack role for both arrows to hit, and then I roll 1 attack roll for the 3rd arrow. So i should have 3 arrows flying in one full attack round with 2 attack rolls. I just need to get a BAB of +6 before i can utilize many shot.

"Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane archer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Base Attack Bonus: +6.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow)."

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I like rolling with whatever results come out of what insane ideas the tabletop has in RPGs.

It sure doesnt sound like it. It sounds like you are trying to pick apart something that has been working fine for the past 3-4 sessions or whatever.

[Firewind]

Re: General Discussion

Well one of the concerns it raises is that that is the feat combination that actually produced enough damage to kill me. I'm not demanding any retroactive changes or anything, it's far too late for anything like that and I like rolling with whatever results come out of what insane ideas the tabletop has in RPGs, but if it is the case that those feats don't stack, I'm a little peeved that nobody (myself included) noticed it earlier.

[Mezlo]

Re: General Discussion

As for Rapid Shot, the rules make it sound like you need two attacks to benefit from it but it's up to Yyg as to how to interpret that I suppose.

Again, no need for interpretation it's spelled out very easily I don't understand why you are having trouble understanding it... Please read the feat description I'm posting below and note BAB is not mentioned AT ALL or is already having the ability to attack twice. I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

"Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot."

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I don't think anyone realised until now about Focused Shot.

If Yyg does in fact change the way we are handling this feat, and I hope he doesn't since it has been fine until now, I'd like to select another feat. Changing the way feats are applied after they've been used in multiple sessions is shitty. If we are handling and interpretting feats a certain way and we've played with them for multiple sessions and now we are changing them is unfair. If it does change, I'd like to select another feat since that's not the way the feat has been interpreted and used by Yyg or I for multiple sessions now...

[Firewind]

Re: General Discussion

I don't think anyone realised until now about Focused Shot. As for Rapid Shot, the rules make it sound like you need two attacks to benefit from it but it's up to Yyg as to how to interpret that I suppose.

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Anyway since you have Rapid Reload I really think you should stick to using Crossbows. They are compatible with Arcane Archer abilities, it is just you need the proficiencies in Longbow or Shortbow to unlock Arcane Archer.

[Mezlo]

Re: General Discussion

Rapid shot has nothing to do with your BAB, the prerequisites are Dex 13, and Point Blank Shot.

"Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot."

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For focused shot, I was reading that by taking an action with a ranged attack (ie attacking with my bow) I get to add my INT modifier to it. Are you saying that's not the case and it is a whole seperate attack? I thought a standard action allows me to attack and then move my distance allowed, where if I take a full round action, I can only take my 5 foot step, but I can do everything allowed in my standard actions. (Rapid shot firing 2 arrows with the -2 penalty and apply my int mod since I've taken Focused shot and no movement allowed.) I have to say I'd be concerned if this is the way we've been interpretting it and playing it now for a numebr of sessions...

"As a standard action, you may make an attack with a bow or crossbow and add your Intelligence modifier on the damage roll. You must be within 30 feet of your target to deal this extra damage. Creatures immune to critical hits and sneak attacks are immune to this extra damage."

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You might want to stick with a Heavy Crossbow since you already spent some feats to marry yourself to the weapon.

And no. Since I'm going to be taking levels in Arcane Archerer and I can only use bows with that class, I need to allocate some feats to bow. The only feat I spent on crossbow that won't crossover to bow is rapid reload.

[Firewind]

Re: General Discussion

You might want to stick with a Heavy Crossbow since you already spent some feats to marry yourself to the weapon. You only need the longbow/shortbow proficiency to unlock the class.

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I'm also wondering why you took Focused Shot too. You can't stack it with Rapid Shot or a Full Attack since Focused Shot requires a standard action and a Rapid Shot or Full Attack requires a Full Round Action.

So you can only get the damage bonus or the extra shot, not both. Plus going by the Pathfinder rules, I'm not 100% sure if you can even use Rapid Shot until you have more than one attack due to having a BaB of 7 or more:

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

Source: https://sites.google.com/site/pathfi...OC-Full-Attack

I'm not 100% sure if you can actually take that action to get two shots if your BaB only gives you one attack, unless Yyg ruled that it is possible at some point.

[Mezlo]

Re: General Discussion

At 2nd level ranger i get a combat feat. The only one that I'd want, since i have all the others, is weapon focus, and I'd want to focus on Long bow since I'll be using long bow as Arcane Archerer. Is this ok?

[Yygdrasil]

Re: General Discussion

Access to anything outside of the core rulebook needs to be cleared and OKd with me first. There just happen to be some things in there that are broken as hell that I'd like to avoid.

Check with me before using anything outside the core rules.