Ding dong the Witch is dead!

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

Not suprised. Historically, America has given money and aid to groups in order to route out a "greater evil."

Are you implying that the British government were perceived as the greater evil in that conflict?

What does that have to do with anything in the post though?

I found it perverse in as much as large groups of American citizens and people in positions of power condoned the sponsorship of the IRA, a terrorist organisation, yet I'm supposed to overlook the hypocrisy of being told al-Qu'eda are terrorists that must be stopped at all costs from the same people who gave money to the individuals who planted nail bombs in school buses that left children's torn bodies lying in British streets.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

I would love to give you an answer, Grizzle, I really would. But alas, I do not know the reasoning or the methodology behind why America would sponsor a group attacking one of our staunchest and strongest supporters.

There is nothing within the deep recesses of my cynicism that will allow me to sarcastically and assholishly respond to you in the very abrasive manner you seem to be quite deserving of.

The BBC is a very respectable corporation, often giving the news that doesn't reach American ears. This includes news supporting and against the war. The BBC was a very integral part of me learning how Americans are perceived overseas, especially during the last election.

I won't say that I don't trust their sources, but especially when dealing with the Brits, who are, I repeat, great allies to Americans, I can't believe that there would be officially sanctioned US backing to such a terrorist organization. Keep in mind that this was posted September 26, 2001.

Tony Blair, bless his heart, was even in the same photo ops as Bush, they shook hands and had meeting and everything. Blair often makes remarks defending Bush's actions.

If Americans are as bad as you're implying with this archaic post, then the credibility of your own Prime Minister is another thing you need to question.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for one second the majority of the population would be dumb enough to subscribe to the fact the IRA's methods of resolving the situation in Northern Ireland was a good thing but I am genuinely interested in knowing how the conflict was perceived by the average US man on the street. There were no winners in that war, I for one am just pleased there is a peace of sorts currently. And apologies if my post seemed abrasive but it's hard to not be passionate over something I feel strongly about and the hypocrisy I was referring to nettles me no end.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

Well thank you for being level-headed. I'm glad I didn't respond like an asshole. That link caught me off-gaurd to tell the truth. I never was even aware of the incident. With the way the press handled 9/11 (and the following YEAR of television coverage . . . -.-) Something like this escaped well under the radar. I'll read that article and do some research. Then I'll get back to you.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

I live in England, I've lived with the threat of terrorist attacks pretty much most of my life. Mainly from the IRA who received money from Americans to, "continue their fight for freedom against their English oppressors". From the statements you make in your post it seems you think only Americans frequent this site.

Also, don't fall into the trap of thinking if you repeat the same statements made by others repeatedly it makes them correct.

The IRA in fear of being considered an international terrorist organization in/around '02 and the fear of their own demise by the U.S.A. did disband as I recall, or at least relinquished their power. It was never not commonly known about their connections with the U.S., but nor was it commonly known either until '02.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

It was never not commonly known about their connections with the U.S., but nor was it commonly known either until '02.

Not sure what you're trying to say there but the connections between the US and the IRA may not have been common knowledge over in the US but it was common knowledge over here in the UK.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

Not sure what you're trying to say there but the connections between the US and the IRA may not have been common knowledge over in the US but it was common knowledge over here in the UK.

Too bad, I never said I was speaking for the U.K., only for here in America.

[Sokarr]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

Nice rationale. The fact remains that is illegal to treat prisoners of war in this manner. If you want to do it, great. But don't be surprised when people don't pat you on the back for it.

They're not prisoners of war.

[Rodin]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

They're not prisoners of war.

Agreed, they're terrorists and murderers. (Cept for the 5 people who are innocent out of the 450 or so in Gitmo.)

[Sokarr]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

I would love to give you an answer, Grizzle, I really would. But alas, I do not know the reasoning or the methodology behind why America would sponsor a group attacking one of our staunchest and strongest supporters.

There is nothing within the deep recesses of my cynicism that will allow me to sarcastically and assholishly respond to you in the very abrasive manner you seem to be quite deserving of.

The BBC is a very respectable corporation, often giving the news that doesn't reach American ears. This includes news supporting and against the war. The BBC was a very integral part of me learning how Americans are perceived overseas, especially during the last election.

I won't say that I don't trust their sources, but especially when dealing with the Brits, who are, I repeat, great allies to Americans, I can't believe that there would be officially sanctioned US backing to such a terrorist organization. Keep in mind that this was posted September 26, 2001.

Tony Blair, bless his heart, was even in the same photo ops as Bush, they shook hands and had meeting and everything. Blair often makes remarks defending Bush's actions.

If Americans are as bad as you're implying with this archaic post, then the credibility of your own Prime Minister is another thing you need to question.

You must be reading a different BBC article because no where does it mention that the US Government "officially" sanctions the IRA. What it does talk about is the majority of funding the IRA received came from Noraid an NGO operating inside the US which raised funds from private Irish-American citizens.

[Mycraell]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

QFT...

Whether the country realizes this or not, this is a war. We have to do certain things to find out what we want to make more people safe. This isn't extreme physical torture. We're not sticking bamboo shoots under their fingernails, we're not burning them, we might hit them, smack them, but that's all I've heard. You don't think the UN has people present in Guantanamo Bay? The UN has inspectors there to make sure the prisoners are being treated justly. And honestly, look at it like this:

You're in a police interrogation room. A kidnapper and murderer is being interrogated to find missing, and possibly murdered children. One of the interrogaters ends up getting frustrated and slaps the guy. Is it against his human rights? Probably. Would you care at all? Probably not. You'd probably be thinking, "That guy deserves more than a slap!"

Now, you have known members of the Taliban, and Al Quaeda in Guantanamo Bay. Then there's the five or so that aren't affiliated with them. To be quite honest, and this is the TRUTH, not a matter of opinion. ANYONE, and EVERYONE affiliated with the Taliban is a murderer. Yes, it's true. If they supported the Taliban during Septermber 11th, they are involved in the murders of thousands of American citizens. I decide not to have ANY sympathy for them what-so-ever. Do I know anyone who died in September 11th? No. But still, these people are good-for-nothing murderers. The 5 who are in Guantanamo Bay, that aren't enemy fighters, I agree, should be released. But for the rest of them, it's a Jihad they want, they'll get a war. But they'll be sorry they ever fucked with U.S. To be completely honest, we did nothing wrong. This isn't about us being "infidels". This is because we helped Afghanistan defeat Russia, but we didn't help the Mouja-hadin set up a government. There's nothing holy about this war. The Taliban is just trying to justify revenge by calling it the "Slaughter of Infidels". Every member of the Taliban deserves to die, because they're murderers, and nothing more.

You do know that the vast, vast majority of prisoners in Guantanimo Bay have not been charged with any crime, right? Many of them will be innocent, and are being contained against their will for extraordinary lengths of time.

Also, i'm a little annoyed i missed this topic when it was born. The very fact that so many people are rejoicing over the bombing is slightly worrying. It is a fact that a mother and child also died in that attack. Dropping two massive bombs was not necessary. The intelligence knew for months previously that that house was a secret residence of the 'witch'. What was wrong with the idea of capturing him? Jailing him, or what have you? Like the family members of those that he killed stated: dropping two bombs on him is not justice.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

You do know that the vast, vast majority of prisoners in Guantanimo Bay have not been charged with any crime, right? Many of them will be innocent, and are being contained against their will for extraordinary lengths of time.

Also, i'm a little annoyed i missed this topic when it was born. The very fact that so many people are rejoicing over the bombing is slightly worrying. It is a fact that a mother and child also died in that attack. Dropping two massive bombs was not necessary. The intelligence knew for months previously that that house was a secret residence of the 'witch'. What was wrong with the idea of capturing him? Jailing him, or what have you? Like the family members of those that he killed stated: dropping two bombs on him is not justice.

Do you even realize the time it takes just to PLAN an intelligence operation? Even if they wanted to, they could NOT simply go in and capture him ALIVE. After the debris cleared, they found a/some suicide vest(s). Now, had they gone in there and made it a military operation involving our own soldiers-alot more people might of died just from going in.

It'd be nice to capture him. Then again, he'd of wased a whole LOT more tax-paying money than either the 2 bombs AND/OR his girlfriend-wannabe Zacharias. And don't think for a second we'd get any intelligence out of him that'd be useful, by the time we'd get him to America th democratic leftists in this country would make sure he has a lawyer for his so-called "equal representation".

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

Well, Sokarr, to be fair, you must've been reading a different post, because I never mentioned the US government either (laugh laugh laugh).

But seriously though, I can see why you implied me that. Thanks for clearing it up in any case, I didn't get to read the article anyway. (I think maybe Grizzle mentioned the US government, which is why you thought that I said the same thing.)

To respond to Draco (whom I will eagerly offer my DNA so that we might fuse some sort of super-being), the fact that Saddam received a lawyer is a testament to the brokenness of both this country's legal system and the morality of our lawyers (if it was ever there in the first place.)

[Sokarr]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

Well, Sokarr, to be fair, you must've been reading a different post, because I never mentioned the US government either (laugh laugh laugh).

I read what you posted.

"I can't believe that there would be officially sanctioned US backing to such a terrorist organization"

What entity other than the Government of the United States can act in an official manner?

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Ding dong the Witch is dead!

The P- [La-Le-Lu-Le-Lo], of course!

Good point, thanks for correction.