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RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

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  • RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

    End Game RDM Guide (level 75)- Melee Resource Edition

    This guide will cover the aspects of RDM at endgame from a melee perspective. If you are not interested in learning, reading, or acknowledging RDM Melee stop reading here. I do not wish for the potential flame fest that will erupt from this. Yes RDM Backline is effective. This guide is being written because every where I go, and every RDM melee thread I see, is a flame fest from both sides of the camp. With mostly yes it can, no it can arguments. I am writing this to provide a knowledgeable resource for people who wish to learn about the topic, Not debate it. There will be many equations Included in this for you to add your own numbers and see where you will sit in terms of efficiency. I will be providing weapons and gear examples some of which I do not currently own. Please also note for all reasoning behind this guide, a WHM, will be assumed in the party. That being said please understand RDM melee is highly situational as are the majority of our roles. One must know when to put away the sword and pull out a staff.

    My background
    I felt it was important to put my background on this to avoid potential arguments. I have been playing this game since It's NA release way back when.
    (6 years now I think). I have levelled RDM to 75 twice, and various other jobs to other levels. I have experienced both backline and front line duties on RDM, while I prefer the later, the former is no less of a way to play the game. I get lots of abuse from people on forums when I offer to share my information on a certain RDM topic, usually RDM Melee. For my part I can be very hot headed and will defend my views till I am blue in the face. For the most part I will do my best to keep this Guide as unbiased as possible.

    RDM Melee-

    What is it about?

    RDM melee is a touchy subject, It is assumed that it is laughable, and in most regards it is. RDM melee is not based around doing large numbers at one time, but smaller numbers over time. (DoT) Our class excels in 2 things that make it very viable as a front line job. Damage Mitigation (Stoneskin, Phalanx), MP conservation (Refresh, Convert). RDM melee is not DD (I can't stress this enough), If you want big numbers at one time then this is not for you. Once again RDM melee is not DD. In short RDM melee is about adding DoT through engaging the enemy, opening Skill Chains (never close a SC our WS are to weak)

    In order to be an effective melee RDM you must understand a few things.
    1. RDM IS NOT A DD.
    2. Party support is more important then your next sword swing
    3. Elemental weakness of Mobs for correct enspell usage
    4. What to cast, When to cast it, and who to cast it on.
    5. Timing spell casting so it falls between swings.
    6. RDM IS NOT A DD

    Basically you will be applying an enspell to your weapon for best results use + enhancing gear when casting. This will be your added boost to DoT. You will be carrying your refresh, haste, enfeeble, MB, back up cures to the frontline with you. Just because you are engaging the mob does not mean you are not still a mage. Through proper equipment, enspells, and cast timing you will benefit your party with additional DoT.

    Sub jobs



    - Berserk, Defender
    - Vorpal Blade, Red Lotus Blade
    - ATK/DEF bonus
    - Double ATK


    - No dual wield
    - no acc boost
    - no MP boost

    War offers a ballanced aproach to melee, berserk will boost atk,defender will boost defence, provoke can be used to take a few hits while tank needs to fix themselves, Double atk offers yet another swing however will not allow joyuese to double attack if it procs.


    High Lights
    - Dual Wield
    - Shadows
    - Ichi line of Elemental nukes

    Low Lights
    - No MP boost
    - No Attack Boost
    - No Accuracy Boost

    This Sub job is great choice as it allows 2 weapons with use of enspells. It also allows you to use Ninjutsu to lower resistances prior to Magic Bursts for a boost to damage. These alone allow for additional DoT. Shadows allow you to be an effective puller, and if it happens be an efficient tank.


    High Lights

    - Vorpal Blade
    - Absorb Spells (Drain/Aspir)
    - Slight MP boost
    - Attack Boost
    - Soul Eater, Last Resort
    - Stun

    Low Lights

    - No dual wield
    - No Accuracy Boost

    This Sub job is a great sub job the Attack boosts offer a boost to DoT, MP is gained, as well as aspir for mobs that are aspirable. Soul Eater> Last Resort> WS beefs up our WS to a more respectable level. Vorpal Blade is a great WS used in conjunction with SE/LR. Stun is a very useful tool in a party, the ability to stop a mob from using a TP move is very efficient.



    - Vorpal Blade
    - MP Boost
    - BLU job traits (blue magic combinations)
    - Head butt

    Low Lights

    - No attack boost
    - ½ skill in Blue magic makes spells hard to land
    - No ACC boost
    - no dual wield
    This sub is a good choice if you require the need for more MP efficient cures. The Blue traits are very nice.
    Again Vorpal Blade is a great WS for the sword wielding RDM. Head butt is a nice addition for stunning TP moves however it tends to fail fairly often due to the lower skill level.



    - Sambas (Drain 2, Aspir)
    - Waltz (Curing, Divine, Healing)
    - Steps (Box, Quick Step)
    - ACC boost
    - EVA Boost

    Low Lights

    - No attack boost
    - No mp boost
    - No dual wield
    - either enspells or sambas not both
    - Waltzes share a timer

    This Sub job is great for a more involved healing roll in the party. You can pretty well cure through on TP alone. The drawback however is the shared timer for waltzes, and you must either choose enspells or sambas. Very effective in a role where you are doing more healing than normal.

    /PLD - Petryx

    High Lights
    - Auto Refresh
    - Vorpal Blade, Red Lotus Blade
    - Sheild Bash
    - Flash
    - Sentinel
    - Cover
    - Def Boost
    - MP boost

    Low Lights
    - No Atk Boost
    - No dual Wield
    - No ACC bonus

    PLD offers you quite the oposite of drk, defense boost is nice if you fin yourself taking damage. Cover allows you to take damage for a weaker ally or some one hurt. Flash will make an enemy miss his next attack good for multi hit TP moves or to just evade 1 attack. Auto refresh gves you 1 mp a tick which prolongs your mp pool. Not over all DoT type job but nice if you find yourself needing to take hits, or in a tanking situation.

    Any of these are effective sub jobs, and situational all the same. Personally I alternate between NIN, DRK.
    From my perspective DRK and NIN are the outright kings of RDM melee (just dinged DRK 37 this weekend). Depending on what you want to do both are effective. I would recommend the jobs as follows NIN>DRK>DNC>BLU. But again its all situational.


    You should focus on ACC as much as possible, then ATK. If you cant hit the mob then your ATK means nothing.

    My Setup: RDM/DRK
    Main: Joyeuse (2x hit 45% of the time)
    Off: Genbu Shield (for aesthetic value)
    RNG: N/A
    Ammo: Phantom tathlum
    Head: Ogre Mask (+10 ATK)
    Neck: Wivre Gorget (ACC +5)
    Ear1: Accurate Earring (ACC +2)
    Ear2: Accurate Earring (ACC +2)
    Body: Nashrima Vest (+4 ACC, 2STR)
    Hands: Wise Gloves (ACC+3)
    Ring1: Woodsman (ACC +5)
    Ring2: Woodsman (ACC +5)
    Back: Amemt Mantle (ATK +10)
    Waist: Life Belt (ACC +10)
    Legs: Wise Barconi (ACC +1)
    Feet: Ogre Ledelsens (ATK +10)
    Total ACC +: 37, ATK +: 30

    A better List looks like this:

    Main: Joyeuse
    Sub: Sentinel Shield
    Head: Walahra Turban (+5% Haste)
    Body: Scropion Harness (+10 Acc)
    Hands: Dusk Gloves (+3% Haste, +5 Attack)
    Legs: Volunteer Brias (+6 Acc)
    Feet: Dusk Ledelsens (+2% Haste, +4 Attack)
    Neck: Peacock Charm (+10 Acc)
    Waist: Life Belt (+10 Acc)
    Finger: Woodsman Ring (+5 Acc)
    Finger: Woodsman Ring (+5 Acc)
    Ear: Suppanomimi (+5 Sword Skill, enhances Duo Wield)
    Ear: Brutal Earring (enhances Double Attack, Store TP +1)
    Ammo: Tiphia Sting (+2 Acc, +2 Attack)
    ACC+ : 48, ATK+ : 11, Haste + 10%, Sword Skill +5

    Other notable gear: Fencer Ring + 5 enspell damage (latent 75%> Max HP, Hollow Earring +3 Enspell Damage.

    As for dual wielding use Blau,/Joy for best results. Martial Anelace is a good choice if you cant afford the blau. Justice/Joy is probably the best in terms of DoT but I will talk about this later.

    The Enspell in you.

    Used properly enspells are a very powerful tool. Since the update the accuracy has increased dramatically meaning less resists. Testing off Doll mobs in Ru’Avitu (sp) its up to about 95% ACC with caped enhancing magic. Enspell damage is based off of you enhancing magic using this equation.

    Enspells when Enhancing > 150: (Enhancing / 20) + 5
    Enspells when Enhancing < 150: Square Root(Enhancing) - 1

    Corresponding Date/Weather: +10% dmg, Corresponding Double Weather: +20% dmg. Effect of element day and weather will stack. Opposite day/weather will reduce the base damage (-10% day/weather, -20% double weather).

    For example Player A has Caped enhancing magic (256)
    With + 7 from enhancing torque and + 15 from Warlock Tights.
    Total: 278

    Palyer B has 121 enhancing skill

    Player A:
    278/20+5 = 18.9 > 19

    Player B:
    121(SQRT)-1 =10

    * Please fell free to plug in your own numbers*

    Damage over Time

    DoT is the best way to play as a RDM melee. Here I will focus on a dual wielding Justice and Joyeuse. This is to represent the best overall DoT.

    Ok I will assume that Player A is using Fencer Ring, and hollow earring for +8 to enspells

    19+8 is 27

    Player A has 27 Enspell Damage.

    Player A
    Joyeuse 224 delay
    Justice 236 delay
    Dual Weild 2 reduce delay of weapons by 15%

    224*0.15= 33.6 or 190.4 delay
    236*0.15= 35.4 or 200.6 delay

    Combined delay is now 391

    391/60 = 6s per swing 19 swings to earn 100% TP

    In 24 seconds player A will Have 4 attempted attacks (8 with dual wield)
    Player B will have 3
    Player A is using J/J and both are able to double attack so

    Joyeuse 4*1.45 = 5.8 (1-2 extra hits)
    Justice 4*1.55= 6.2 (2 extra hits)

    8+ 3 = 11
    11*0.8= 8

    Now calculating 95% enspell acc

    8*0.95= 7
    1 hit @ 30+1-27
    7(30+27) = 399 + 31-57 = 430-456

    This Is a basic step by step walk through to a typical battle and what you will be doing.
    * I will be adding an indepth section on what I call over delay casting but I will get into that later*

    Breif Battle Walkthrough (basic outline). (RDM/NIN)

    1. enspel -Engage Mob - first swing
    2. refresh self
    3. second swing
    4.haste <t>, dia
    5. 3rd swing
    6. refresh <t>
    7. 4th swing
    8. haste <t>
    9. 5th swing
    10. Para/slow <t>
    11. 6th swing
    12. cast as needed
    13. 7th swing
    14. Cast as needed
    15. 8th swing
    16. cast as needed- if mob dead prepare for next mob. If not continue with cycle


    In conclusion, I would like to point out I am writing this in reply to a certain few peoples requests more my melee information. This guide does not endorse Melee over Backline it is just trying to provide an example that both are effective at any time. A properly equipped RDM can parse along side heavy DD’s like Dark Knight if the setting allows for it. But parses aside, it shows that RDM melee is an effective source of DoT. The only drawback to this job is the lack of weapon skill. It is curable with /DRK to a degree however you will lost out on additional enspell damage. I hope you enjoy this write up and find it useful. Please post any questions or comments and I will get back to them.
    Last edited by MrMageo; 03-19-2008, 03:23 PM. Reason: edited battle walk through subtracted controversial drk rdm comparission

    sig courtesy tgm
    retired -08

  • #2
    Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

    No mention of RDM/PLD? You get a slight MP boost, the three "extra" sword weaponskills, Auto Refresh, Shield Bash, and Flash (which is great for letting people reapply long-casting defenses). For solo purposes, that last point becomes how you reapply Stoneskin; additionally, you benefit from Shield Mastery and Sentinel when you solo as RDM/PLD. The downside is that PLD doesn't do a lot to make you actually better with your auto-attacks; it's more a case of the stats not being counterproductive. -- Pteryx


    • #3
      Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

      Why no mentioning of /WAR or /PLD?



      • #4
        Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

        Originally posted by Malacite View Post
        Why no mentioning of /WAR or /PLD?
        Wagering WAR is 18, PLD is 1 and WHM is still below sub level.


        • #5
          Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

          /PLD is 26, /WAR is 20, /WHM is 37 no mention of WAR or PLD because I have never used them in a melee setup, If anyone has Useful Info on WAR ill add it, Petryx is getting PLD stuff added because he said facts about it.

          sig courtesy tgm
          retired -08


          • #6
            Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

            So when did WHM magically get caught up?

            WAR - I was close, PLD not so much.

            WAR is a good PVP sub. Provoke interupts spells and forces a target to focus on you when they might have been targeting someone else. Then there's Double Attack, Attack Bonus, Berzerk and Defender.

            Berzerk's penalty can be worked off a little with Stoneskin and Phalnax, but its only a temporary measure.

            Others have covered the pros of PLD and WAR has other similar perks.


            • #7
              Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

              Ive been steadily blitzing my subs, I got laid off from work cuz some strike in the states so I have a ton of free time. as It stands WHM 37, DRK 37, NIN 30, BLU 30, SCH 12 (died 5 times today cuz some fucking douchebag warrior) SMN 30, BRD 15, figure all will be 37 by this weekend (hopefully)
              added pld and war ty for the fine points petryx and bbq
              Last edited by MrMageo; 03-16-2008, 10:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

              sig courtesy tgm
              retired -08


              • #8
                Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                Sorry, but
                I do not wish for the potential flame fest that will erupt from this.
                You can say what you like but mere words will not prevent this from happening. I think it's your duty to not get upset when people flame you if you really don't want this thread to degenerate.


                • #9
                  Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                  No offense, I respect the OP's efforts to pioneer, but just what is really that different in post-03/08 RDM melee and pre-03/08 RDM melee?

                  The guide can be summed up like this:

                  "Post update, lowered En-spell resists now offer awesome accuracy previously unseen against exp level mobs, that is to say, T and higher."

                  "All other aspects and drawbacks to RDM melee still apply."

                  There have been a ton of guides written over the past 4-5 years, this update hasn't introduced anything worth re-writing the book over. The boons this update have brought--at best--warrant an additional paragraph in that book.


                  • #10
                    Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                    RDM melee is not based around doing large numbers at one time, but smaller numbers over time.
                    If this is true, then why not include subjob for melee as RDM/mage, like RDM/WHM, RDM/BLM... basically it trade off DoT for more tools and flexibility.
                    Server: Quetzalcoatl
                    Race: Hume Rank 7
                    75 PLD, 75 SAM, 75 WAR, 75 NIN, 75 MNK, 65 BLU


                    • #11
                      Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                      Doesn't spell casting and ranged attack always reset the auto attack timer?
                      "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater


                      • #12
                        Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                        I think people are taking this a little too seriously. I don't think even MrMageo intended this to be a serious play style, but rather just a quirky off-handed possibility of play when you're not doing anything particularly important. There are many reasons why rdm melee is not fantastically effective, but I don't know that they're super important, as there are many things in this game that are more done out of curiosity or habit than because it's particularly amazing (I.E. lvl 15 war with /nin sub...).

                        This really has no business erupting into a flame thread. This just isn't really worth it.
                        :: Why can't this crazy love be mine? ::

                        SEVE - HUME WHM (31) BLM (19) THF (17) WAR (9) MNK (5) RNG (9) BLU (1) BRD (1) DNC (1) NIN (1) :: BAHAMUT


                        • #13
                          Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                          Originally posted by Ziero View Post
                          Doesn't spell casting and ranged attack always reset the auto attack timer?
                          I don't recall offhand if ranged attacks reset the attack timer, but spellcasting definitely does not; they just put the attack timer on hold while you're casting.



                          • #14
                            Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                            I wasn't aware that RDM melee of any sort changed dramatically in the update that did not include any adjustments to any aspect of anything involving RDM melee. While anyone who frequents the RDM forums here knows that I am a huge proponent of RDM melee, nothing has changed in the last 2 weeks that wasn't already being discussed and covered months ago, the title is a little misleading.

                            Originally posted by MrMageo View Post
                            I have been playing this game since It's NA release way back when.
                            (6 years now I think).

                            Try October of '03, less than 4.5 years ago. That drives me nuts when people do that.
                            Callysto of RamuhCaithsith - 75 RDM / BRD / COR / PLD / WAR / SCH / DRK

                            Formerly Callisto of Ramuh. | Retired 5.28.10

                            Callisto Broadwurst of Palamecia


                            • #15
                              Re: RDM Melee Guide Post 03/08 Update

                              My overall problems the this "guide" are that its not comprehensive, poorly organized, too "mathy" and that the OP admits what most people would have argued in the first place:

                              In most EXP PTs and alliance situations, RDM melee just isn't effective. This is especially at endgame, save for possible Salvage and Limbus scenarios.

                              Most of all, any good Enspells could do, the update changed things so SMN and SCH could make them more effective for other party members. The effect is now determined by the caster's Enhancing skill, not the target's. So in situations where a DNC isn't present, SCH and SMN can give a greater cumalative effect with the enspells than a RDM could give by themselves.

                              SE kicked RDM in the nads March 8th, and RDMs just kept smiling. Maybe you had Stoneskin up, but you'll feel it later.