The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

[The ammo-swapping thing] was already corrected several pages back by another user,

Re Armando: Ammo-swaps aren't penalized.

Yellow Mage doesn't want to accept that the game evolves past his present level. Where he is, gear swaps are less of a necessity, and yet a lot of us here, in the 50+ game especially, gear swaps are a way of life. I can't hit one macro on any job without something getting chenged. So pardon the rest of us if our intelligence isn't just a little insulted when one person criticizes the effective tactics of other players just because he's not where they are yet.

Okay, I'll bite.

"You're just a noob because he isn't at our levels of awesomeness yet, where you absolutely MUST gear-swap, or else you'll be gimp. Don't hate us just because we're better than you!"

Seriously, I'm getting tired of the same old song of ad hominem. I never said gear swapping wasn't effective; that was never the point. My problem really stems from the fact that it's too effective. And you've done nothing to defend it's place in this game other than essentially "everybody else does it" and "it's the most efficient way of doing things."

Heck, I didn't (and still don't) even want to continue this particular line of discussion, anyway. Personal attacks, though, count as "something really stupid" in regards to what I said earlier.

[dirtyclown]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

There's also a vastly overlooked job ability called Cover. Running behind the Paladin instead of standing there like an idiot spamming /p with OH GOD, IT BURNS is a good idea most of the time.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

From the healer's perspective, to avoid getting hate, you don't get into the habit of overcuring. Some WHMs and RDMs have an extremely bad habit exclusively using the highest tier of Cure they've learned and seldom turn to the Regens to conserve MP. Most of the time, its better to stick with tier II and III cures instead of going right for Cure IV and V in every situation.

When you're a melee, the best thing to do is play it moderate and actually watch your damage outpot, but if you take hate, stand right where you are and accept it. Taking damage and losing utsusemi shadows actually reduces the hate you have. Sure, you might die for taking damage, but running around or expecting someone to drop a high tier cure on you isn't helping the situation, either. That aside, if you can push the envelope and are 99.9% sure the mob will die soon for your impulse to do higher damage, do so, but make sure its near the end of a fight, not at the start.

[dirtyclown]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

Since I am returning to FFXI after years of not playing, could someone explain to me what you can do to lose enmity? I know that dragoons can jump, but do the other classes have any abilities that reduce or even eliminate threat? From what I have been reading, you need to run away until the tank can pull the monster off of you. Perhaps I was just reading a very basic explanation.

Not doing anything to anger the mob works, but usually your tank will be doing something to prevent mobs from eating you. Running away only aggravates things.

[Brielle]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

Thanks to both Gobo and Lunaryn for posting that information, the argument that evolving from that topic was getting a little out of hand.

Since I am returning to FFXI after years of not playing, could someone explain to me what you can do to lose enmity? I know that dragoons can jump, but do the other classes have any abilities that reduce or even eliminate threat? From what I have been reading, you need to run away until the tank can pull the monster off of you. Perhaps I was just reading a very basic explanation.

[Sevv]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

What is up with the female references to logging out to reset hate? Only real men stay in the game? Is that what you are trying to say? I find it both amusing and annoying that people still reference "you throw like a girl", but in a different context.

Don't worry about him really he is just a sad attempt at a troll.

[Gobo]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

The discussion of logging hate was confusing me a bit since I'd heard that zoning/logging only removed you from the hate list, it didn't reset enmity. So I checked Kanican's blog; Test 11 establishes this generally, but Test 21 reveals that hate does indeed reset on zoning if and only if you are at the top of the hate list. I don't see a test for logging off while actually at the top of the hate list as yet, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to think it might be similar to zoning.

Given that, I'm curious about the impact in practice since what seems to be discussed is the practice of logging out before you hit the top of the hate list in order to prevent reaching it. Is there something I'm missing? It sounds like this shouldn't work.

Kanican - Enmity Testing (Part III) -- Enmity Testing (Test 11A/B)
Kanican - Enmity Testing (Part VII) -- Enmity Testing (Test 21A/B/C)

I was going to mention this, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Logging out/Zoning/Dying only reset hate if and only if you are on the top of the hate list. Here's how it works from examples seen personally, one very resently.

BLU stands behind Khimera and spams SA/CA Cannonball for a bit. After a bit of time, a fair amount of enmity has accumulated on the BLU, so the BLU logs out. Khimera smacks the PLD/NIN really hard and the PLD drops below the BLU on the hate list, however since the BLU has logged out, the BLU is then dropped off the hate list and Khimera continues to beat on the PLD like nothing has changed. The BLU returns with his hate reset

Later, after the BLU returns and returns to SA/CA Cannonball for a bit, then logs out. Enmity remains stable until the BLU returns and the BLU's hate has not been erased from Khim. The BLU returns, fires off a SA/CA Cannonball, surpasses the PLD in hate, gets a face full of Khimera tail and hits the floor.

On Death. SCH and Campaign was a wonderful way to find this out. Myself, the SCH, runs over to a bunch of NPCs, Rapture/Accession/Cure IVs the NPCs and returned to the players. A few min later, one of the NPCs dies and a couple yags come and quickly beat me into the floor. Raise up, start resting out weakness. A few min later another NPC dies and the Yag who was fighting him makes a B-line to me and 1-shots me. Even though I died, I wasn't on the top of the hate list for the second Yag, so my hate wasn't reset, because his current target was still kicking.

Moral of the story, unless you reach the top of the hate list while you are logged off/zoned/dead you hate will not be reset when you return/raise up.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

I think the whole gun delay thing might be in reference to older guns and how long it took to fire them. Maybe not. At any rate, guns have thier place here and there in the game, much to the chagrin of those that would argue guns don't have a place in a fantasy setting at all.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

I mean, let's look at exterior issue to Itaz and Feba's desire for JP text characters in the NA client, wouldn't that also include one person having to go out and make the additional purchase of a keyboard that helps them do so? I mean, at least as a point of reference for someone that may wish to learn and communicate in Japanese? So we get one fix and still have to make an additional purchase to cover that.

Why would we need to buy another keyboard?

I learned how to enter Japanese text on a U.S. English keyboard on a Mac; Windows is similar enough that I can muddle through without too much trouble.

Japanese client gives the players NPC text in Japanese, but they have the option of typing in Japanese and English. NA client gives NPC text in English, but we're restricted to typing in English only.

All I ask is parity in the NA client--which can already handle JP text codes, just need the input system enabled. (i.e. Nearly trivial amount of work to let NA players use Japanese text.)

[Brielle]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

I agree with the hate logging thing. To be honest whoever condones that needs to pull their balls out of that purse they are carrying around to match their skirt.

Logging hate requires that you use 0 skill in an epic battle. In reality those who log because they are going to get wailed on are pussies. Argue with me all you want that if it works why not use it.... the fact is hate loggers are pussies.

NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE oh fuck /logout, rest, NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE oh fuck /logout.

Congratulations on being a bitch.

What is up with the female references to logging out to reset hate? Only real men stay in the game? Is that what you are trying to say? I find it both amusing and annoying that people still reference "you throw like a girl", but in a different context.

[Lunaryn]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

The discussion of logging hate was confusing me a bit since I'd heard that zoning/logging only removed you from the hate list, it didn't reset enmity. So I checked Kanican's blog; Test 11 establishes this generally, but Test 21 reveals that hate does indeed reset on zoning if and only if you are at the top of the hate list. I don't see a test for logging off while actually at the top of the hate list as yet, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to think it might be similar to zoning.

Given that, I'm curious about the impact in practice since what seems to be discussed is the practice of logging out before you hit the top of the hate list in order to prevent reaching it. Is there something I'm missing? It sounds like this shouldn't work.

Kanican - Enmity Testing (Part III) -- Enmity Testing (Test 11A/B)
Kanican - Enmity Testing (Part VII) -- Enmity Testing (Test 21A/B/C)

[dirtyclown]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

See Dave, the problem I'm noticing here is that people are suggesting completely optional additions and you're complaining and acting like you absolutely must participate. So what if they added JP text options to the English version of the game, not everybody is going to bother with it, and the ones who will use it can do so at their own choice.

Also, I'd like to point out that it's incredibly easy for you to judge and claim that I'm not adding anything to the topic, because I'm not posting what you feel are good ideas. You're acting like this topic is for intellectual discussion only, when it's just a topic on a game forum about random features we want added. Last I checked, my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, so deal with it. Also also, I am adding to the topic in several ways. Jerks are the spice of life, you know. I'm not on the fast track to another year long b&, either. I just find that I don't really like your attitude anymore.

Something I'd really like to see added to the game is an auto-sort feature. Sure it's a completely lazy idea, but the fact that no items autostack except coins bothers me. I get a full inventory every day in PTs and have been playing since NA release. It gets old sorting everything and having no option to auto-pass on stuff I don't want unless I use the windower.

[Sevv]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

I agree with the hate logging thing. To be honest whoever condones that needs to pull their balls out of that purse they are carrying around to match their skirt.

Logging hate requires that you use 0 skill in an epic battle. In reality those who log because they are going to get wailed on are pussies. Argue with me all you want that if it works why not use it.... the fact is hate loggers are pussies.

NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE oh fuck /logout, rest, NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE oh fuck /logout.

Congratulations on being a bitch.

You sir are an IDIOT.

As you call people pussies, we will sit and laugh at you with our ridills, drings, aberks, dalmys, etc. etc.

Red Mages who don't solo vrtra are pussies

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

But of course, that was the entire point of the thread. Bbq (hereafter referred to as Dave) only wanted people to post ideas that he wanted to see implemented, to turn this entire thread into one massive circle jerk of agreement and like-minded posting.

Which is why over half of this thread has been dedicated to correcting Yellow Mage's asinine statements about gearswaps in general. Because I wanted to create a huge circle-jerk.

I'll shoot Feba's ideas down because he's so tremendously out-of-touch with the game its not even funny. He thinks playing FFXI years ago means something now. It doesn't, really. He's just an Alla troll that never let the game go and thinks he knows how to improve it.

Yellow Mage doesn't want to accept that the game evolves past his present level. Where he is, gear swaps are less of a necessity, and yet a lot of us here, in the 50+ game especially, gear swaps are a way of life. I can't hit one macro on any job without something getting chenged. So pardon the rest of us if our intelligence isn't just a little insulted when one person criticizes the effective tactics of other players just because he's not where they are yet.

dirtyclown, you've not really even added anything to this discussion. Or any I've seen since you started posting again. If you just want to wade into threads to make enemies, well, that's your thing. I just disagree with certain ideas.

I mean, let's look at exterior issue to Itaz and Feba's desire for JP text characters in the NA client, wouldn't that also include one person having to go out and make the additional purchase of a keyboard that helps them do so? I mean, at least as a point of reference for someone that may wish to learn and communicate in Japanese? So we get one fix and still have to make an additional purchase to cover that.

Deuling - people just want that for the sake of having it. That's not a good reason to add anything to the game and not only that, its a generic, standard complaint about the game from an outsider's viewpoint. FFXI not having "true PvP" is only a problem to a WoW or new-school MMO player, such is not the case with people who prefer some of the older MMOs that also lack PvP. Such a topic is not really even upo up for discussion in this thread. This thread is about the smaller issues people currently find in the game, yet are discussed less often. Read the OP, I have no hidden agenda. I'm just discouraging that subject because it has no real relevance.

If you want to discuss PvP in FFXI, then ya got to talk about the PvP we have, not the PvP you want. Get it? My complaints about gear swap penalties - even though I know why they are there - would be one relevant example. Another would be how the game being balanced for PvE affects the PvP games at uncapped levels. But feel free to ignore that or any relevant statements I've made, its clearly what you do.

[Akashimo]

Re: The issues with FFXI that we don't often discuss

To all against it, even toning the nukes down, hate still going to be gained. And eventually the mob is going to bash your brains in. Even with a good tank, mob does some insane move that resests in a small aoe hate or kills highest close range targets, logging hate is the best option to stop a possible wipe.

Call it lack of skill, but its skill to know when to before you even get hit. Logging > chances of wiping.