Common mobs with odd properties

[Ziero]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

yeah, which is why I'm more leaning towards THF sub, as I've never seen a rabbit Triple Attack in my life.

Honestly, offhand, I can't think of any normal mob who has Triple Attack (other then Beastmen).

Infact so far, it seems like the only jobs that normal (non-beastmen/humanoid/NM) mobs have are War, Mnk, Pld, Blm and Rdm, which, understandably isn't too varied but at the same time a bit dissappointing.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Mob subs aren't capped, so while it wouldn't have A-ranked Eva if that were the case, it'd still keep Triple Attack and all Evasion Bonuses.

ah, I see.

Guess they're just Warriors, then.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

yeah, which is why I'm more leaning towards THF sub, as I've never seen a rabbit Triple Attack in my life.

Mob subs aren't capped, so while it wouldn't have A-ranked Eva if that were the case, it'd still keep Triple Attack and all Evasion Bonuses.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

If they were Thfs they'd have triple attack and absurd evasion so it's an easy test to figure out I'd imagine.

yeah, which is why I'm more leaning towards THF sub, as I've never seen a rabbit Triple Attack in my life.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'm not going to lie. I skipped to the end after about page 2, and didn't see this on the front.

Not gonna blame you. That's part of the reason why I decided to turn the first post into the summary of all I've found.

As for the rabbits: I highly doubt it. They're included in that very short list of mob families and stat ranks I saw in the original BG thread where Nagamaki posted Studio Gobli's mob stat formulas, and there's no mention of Rabbits having a different job. Regardless, eventually I'd like to have the info for most mob families, so I'll look into it at some point.

EDIT:

If they were Thfs they'd have triple attack and absurd evasion so it's an easy test to figure out I'd imagine.

Correct. Any high level THF mob has A-ranked Evasion instead of WAR's C-rank, and Evasion Bonus III or IV depending on its level on top of that, as well as Triple Attack. It's VERY easy to rule out THF as a possibility, with the data from even just one rabbit.

I'd like to look into Crawlers because they supposedly have E-ranked Defense (whereas 99% of mobs have C-rank, regardless of job) so I might as well do that at Boyahda Tree and collect info from Crawlers, Rabbits, and Mandragora all in one go.

[Ziero]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'm not going to lie. I skipped to the end after about page 2, and didn't see this on the front.
Have you done any research regarding rabbits? I know they have Double Attack, so they're either WAR or /WAR. But I've always had this feeling they're part THF. Partly because of their evasion and delay, and partly because whenever I use a Rabbit jug of any kind as a BST, it seems to have Treasure Hunter (It might just be me, but farming feels like it nets a lot more drops with a rabbit jug)
Any info on that would be appreciated, if only to make me not feel crazy.

If they were Thfs they'd have triple attack and absurd evasion so it's an easy test to figure out I'd imagine.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I'm not going to lie. I skipped to the end after about page 2, and didn't see this on the front.

Have you done any research regarding rabbits? I know they have Double Attack, so they're either WAR or /WAR. But I've always had this feeling they're part THF. Partly because of their evasion and delay, and partly because whenever I use a Rabbit jug of any kind as a BST, it seems to have Treasure Hunter (It might just be me, but farming feels like it nets a lot more drops with a rabbit jug)

Any info on that would be appreciated, if only to make me not feel crazy.

[Armando]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Feba: I assume they fit their jobs perfectly well, or at least that's what the little bit of info from Studio Gobli that I have would suggest, but I haven't looked into them yet. It's quite a bitch to travel to a completely different place, find a weapon + gear setup that'll allow me to check a given mob's stats, repeat and find each mob's level, and return to Windurst every time I need to test a mob family. Then there's those issues with Goobbues and Magic Pots that I have to work out.

I'll look into at least one Beastman (probably an Orc or Goblin since they're the easiest to get find/get to) soon and see if they have any out-of-the-ordinary properties, but I doubt it, at least for original/RoZ mobs. I wouldn't be surprised if some CoP beastmen and most ToAU beastmen have special properties.

[Feba]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Which has been my exact point. Most of the mobs you are listing fall into 2 catagories, either WAR or BLM. To me this makes it look like a WAR template of stats was used for melee orientated jobs and a BLM template for more magic orientated jobs. S-E can add or take away anything but doing so changes the nature of a job.

Actually, this gives me a small question for Armando-- how well do beastmen fit their jobs?

And Kafeen, why the hell are you still here? Armando has put a helluva lot of time into testing these things, and if you seriously want to debate with him you had better get at least a tiny fraction of his experience under your belt so you have a shred of credibility (not to mention knowing what the hell you're talking about)

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

I wonder what job template Gnoles fall into. I was farming some Gnoles in Vunkerl Inlet and noticed that my jug pet got countered by the Gnole. However, it doesn't attack like a MNK mob with h2h characteristics. XXX/MNK perhaps?

Is a WHM without healing magic still a WHM?
Is a BLM without elemental magic still a BLM?

I'd say not since they're unable to fulfil the role required of that job. This is an extreme case in order to try and get accross what I'm saying but hopefully you understand where I'm coming from.

If you really want to continue to debate this, please start a separate thread. And then everyone who's actually interested in this debate can post there. That way, this thread doesn't get cluttered with a bunch of tangents.

[Callisto]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Out of curiosity, are the any mobs that are Blue Mages? That question has always been bugging my mind, because when you think about it, it's sort of a paradox . . .

Also, any Dancer or Scholar mobs released yet?

Erm an add, see above about the Colibris, also I think it'll be a bit before we can test for DNC/SCH as I haven't seen their full on stat rankings through all levels yet.

Edit: Is there a way to merge my own posts?

[Araius]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Here's the thing, Kafeen. The vast majority of the time, the idea that mobs have jobs in the sense stated in this thread works out perfectly with their respective abilities, spells, and stats. The aberrations are listed here and that's why Armando is pointing them out.

Basically, it's much easier to say that in general they have jobs and here's what they are, and here's the exceptions, than requiring an entire new list of "mob stats" and job traits, and the levels they're obtained. Obviously mob jobs differ in small ways from PC jobs, but don't take it so literally. They don't work exactly the same, but the similarities are so great that we might as well just consider them jobs. We call them that for simplicity's sake...if it confuses you, call them whatever you want, but don't come here slamming the incredible work that numerous people have put into this.

Awesome work Armando, I've been looking for this for a while

[Kafeen]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

If S-E can expand a mob's spell list to include whatever they damned well please, I'm sure they can take away Undead Killer
...
I've yet to find a WAR mob that has D-ranked main job VIT, and also doesn't have WAR's C-ranked AGI, or a BLM mob that has BLM's F-ranked VIT, that also doesn't have BLM's C-ranked AGI.
...
...
...
If S-E followed the job/sub templates perfectly, then we'd have some pretty boring mobs. Mobs having odd properties that don't mesh perfectly well with what you'd expect is, well, to be expected. It's sort of what this thread is about.

Which has been my exact point. Most of the mobs you are listing fall into 2 catagories, either WAR or BLM. To me this makes it look like a WAR template of stats was used for melee orientated jobs and a BLM template for more magic orientated jobs. S-E can add or take away anything but doing so changes the nature of a job.
Is a WHM without healing magic still a WHM?
Is a BLM without elemental magic still a BLM?

I'd say not since they're unable to fulfil the role required of that job. This is an extreme case in order to try and get accross what I'm saying but hopefully you understand where I'm coming from.

There are times when mobs are given specific abilities in order to make them emulate the appearance of certain jobs, most easilly noticed with beastment but even in these cases differences are there to seperate them from the races of players. When S-E wants mobs or more often NPCs to more closely resemble players more abilties are added such are WSs available to players.

I can see why you'd use the method you have as an idea indicating it to other people but it does throw inaccuraccies into the equasion. For instance, if you're facing a Sprikler (magic pot types) in sky. You're stating that that's an RDM/WAR mob. From that I'd expect to face a mob capable of casting and some melee ability. This may work. I'd also expect the mobs to be able to self cure and cast debuffing spells and single target elemental magic. This isn't so accurate. They don't self cure and are capable of casting AoE elemental spells. This makes them look more like BLM mobs if anything, yet their stats wouldn't match that proposal.

[Callisto]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Armando, I believe that Nagamaki's testing showed Colibris to be BLU mobs in that same thread(you know which one I'm talking about.)

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Common mobs with odd properties

Kafeen is essentially saying that all the hard work and time and effort that players like Armando put into the game trying to fully understand concepts like this is useless.

That's highly disrespectful. I can't believe I added Kafeen to the blocked list before I added Sev.