Rdm/war

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by thuriz_k
Forgive me for double posting, but is a RDM role to just..enfeeble at the start of a battle, then basically sit out? As his nuke power is weak / healing power isnt great?

Is being a RDM really that boring?

Your Nuke Power is decent, in fact the higher you go the more and more you will find your Nukes far outstriping your Melee.
At first the Nukes are crap especially with a Warrior Sub. But when you pass 30th their power starts to shine. As you go higher your general spellpower increases by quite a bit.

However, post 40th, with Refresh, you will be so busy refreshing other party members and Debuffing mobs that you will have little time for anything else... let along sitting there doing nothing.

[El Cura]

I find it quite funny how a rdm can't have a /nin or /war subjob when i've seen thf, and whm go up to lvl 50 with either no subjob a all... or like lvl 1~10 subs.
Its quite ironic how people allow whms to do anything -.-

[TMPikachu]

WHM's are just the most valuable members for any party, not too suprising


now... in later levels, will it really be wrong to cast enthunder and whack things with two swords, while still casting enfeebling and refresh?

I don't think a lvl70 fight will need more dia's/paralyzes/etc. than a lvl30 fight, as your skill and success rates go up with monster difficulty.

hmmm, checking stat calculators

elvaan rdm/nin has more hp/str/vit than tarutaru war/mnk of the same level

I would think Elvaan, with some accuracy items, would be the ones best able to pull off being a melee mage.

and dark knights are mentioned...

would drk/rdm work? Fast cast and magic attack up would be useful, as would the extra mp's, plus rdm's give a balanced boost to accuracy and attack too.
plus, you can swing an electric greatsword :D

or Nin/rdm...

[Discordian]

I highly encourage you to try these out. What you find fun is good for you. This is data and opinions. Fun and data doesn't always mess together. Hence, taru warriros.

now... in later levels, will it really be wrong to cast enthunder and whack things with two swords, while still casting enfeebling and refresh?

The delay on your weapons is added. This will be slow. In a fight you will still need to cast spells. The delay on swinging is either going to slow the spellcasting between spells or you will be tempted by the darkside not to cast.

I don't think a lvl70 fight will need more dia's/paralyzes/etc. than a lvl30 fight, as your skill and success rates go up with monster difficulty.

I'm not level 70 yet but I can see a trend, as you get tougher so does everything else. Spells will be resisted and shrugged off. Hence recasting will be in order.

I would think Elvaan, with some accuracy items, would be the ones best able to pull off being a melee mage.

I have an elvaan samurai buddy that loads to the teeth with dex adn accuracy gear. No expense is to great. If you do that you are missing out on gear that will help your mage side, int and mnd are the mage stats you need along with MP being elvaan.

would drk/rdm work? Fast cast and magic attack up would be useful, as would the extra mp's, plus rdm's give a balanced boost to accuracy and attack too.

Enfeebling wont work very well. If my B swordskill sucks as bad as it does now than a C Enfeebling dark knight will probably be a waste of MP. Better to sub war or thief, the fastcast wouldn't be noticable enough in your spells because you probably won't cast a lot of them.

or Nin/rdm...

Nin/rdm apparently works for taru since they get much more MP. I tried it for a bit just for kicks, it was good for solo untill level 12. I wouldn't bring it in to a party since thief and war are much better party subs.

[Apple Pie]

I don't think a lvl70 fight will need more dia's/paralyzes/etc.

Sorry but no way. Regardless of what levels we are at, enfeebling spells such as paralyze and slow are always necessary. Just think of what do they do. They all iventually help us to save a lot of MP to cure, don't they? If we fail to cast them, that lead paladins, white mages and us to waste some more Cure II, Cure III and higher.

elvaan rdm/nin has more hp/str/vit than tarutaru war/mnk of the same level

Think of what makes RDM meleeing weaker than other plain attackers'.

1. Can red mages equip the same swords that paladins and worriors use? Are our swords stronger than axes at the same LV?

2. Do we have any strong weapon skills? In other words, does Fast Blade match Rampage and Raising Rush?

3. Does RDM/NIN have any useful job abilities or traits such as Berserker, Double Attack, Attack/Defence Bonus?

When we fight against VT or stronger, some advantage of stats like STR/VIT don't matter at all unless we grapple. It is always our weapon's base damage and skills that determine the actual damage.

I, as a leader, rather invite Tarutaru WAR/MNK than any other RDN/NINs.

Finally, unless our main jobs have enfeebling and enhancing magic skills, subbing RDM doesn't help us much. The only exception is BRD/RDM that can make a little use of fastcast.

[Shiia]

I find it quite funny how a rdm can't have a /nin or /war subjob when i've seen thf, and whm go up to lvl 50 with either no subjob a all... or like lvl 1~10 subs.

This is because they are farming Cash, Items and so on. They sub thief for Gil Steal and Treasure hunting. Also 25 thf sub will gain Flee so they use to enhance their movement a bit too. Thats why they sub a thief.

[tonka]

I'm playing with a good RDM/NIN atm. She stands back, lands all her debuffs, does some spare healing. The MP isn't too big of an issue because our tank is a ninja & we've got taru mages. She does little healing, mostly debuffing.

She dual wields wands. Any damage she does is through spells & magic burst.

If you use a sub based on the PT context and what you're hunting, you can still be effective in a PT. In our PT a WHM sub on the RDM would not have increased our XP rate very much, but the debuffs were super helpful (strong Paralysis & Slow saves on blink shields).

If you're going to sub Ninja to dual wield swords and melee and do all these things that have nothing to do increasing your role in a PT, you're gong to drag the PT down.

[Weezingpipes]

I would encourage any RDM thinking they will be meleeing in the 40 and 50+ range to check out this site :

http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gb...skill-e.html#5

Note the difference in skill using B ranked weapons, and how this difference is increaed post 60. Also you can check out a lot of the weapon skills which will only be given to other jobs and not RDM. You may not think 20+ points of skill is a lot, but it is. RDM will not get access to the better quality daggers or swords that THF or PLD respectively can use. Also another good info site :

http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~nhart/charstat1.html

Note the difference in MP between say a Warrior sub job and a black mage sub. If you really think 100+ MP won't matter, good luck consistantly chaining IT monsters for exp.

Red mages are M A G E S. That is intentional. You can play your "fun" combo all you want, but when people want to gain exp, they want to do it in a timely and efficient fashion. It isn't mob mentality here, it is what works vs what doesn't. I would rather not have a Red Mage than group with one who thinks he is a melee. If you want to melee and cast spells, be a Dark Knight. If you want to be a RDM who is desireable to groups, pick a sub job which augments the job the best.

And one last tip for the higher level non believer Red Mages. Turn on others attacks next time you fight, and compare that damage to your hits for 0-8 fighting level 50 monsters. You can cast 1 nuke spell and outdo your combined melee damage over an entire fight. It really is that bad.

[TMPikachu]

seems so severely dissapointing

Nin/rdm or drk/rdm will probably have to do it for me then

hmmm, a question on the dark knight's ability to enfeeble...

are they actually good at it? I would imagine any mage would severely outshine them, like how fighters outshine redmages.

What I meant by the dia/paralyze comment was that I figure at lvl70, I will be casting the same amount of paralyze spells as I would in a lvl30 fight.

hmmm, now, would it seem unbalancing for a rdm, in a future patch to get attack and def boost I? Maybe even II

The question I've got now is, would it be wrong for a rdm to maintain melee abilities late game? (as in, the same way that lvl 1-20 you could do decent melee damage and take a few hits)

[Discordian]

Paladin's use 1H swords just like I do except theirs do more damage and they have more skill in it.
Paladin 1h Sword = A+ skill
Redmage 1h Sword = B skill
That skill directly relates to damage and success in hitting.

Take a look at section three for those skillcaps.
http://www.ausystem.org/~aushacho/gb...skill-e.html#3

Enfeeble Damage
If rdm has problems hitting with a B sword skill than a drk will have an even thougher time landing with a C Enfeeble skill. Best to ignore it and let the rdm or whitemage do it.

Later in the game I bet I'm going to be doing almost nothing to an enemy but scratch the hair off its skin. The inevitability is in all of the higher levels posts, higher than mine because I'm not at 50+ yet. Some of them melee, some of them do not.

Loaded with INT and MND equipment my enfeebles almost ALWAYS land. I'm not bothing with any other gear other than INT, MND, and HP2MP gear. Anything else, would probably be for gilfarming.

[Apple Pie]

hmmm, a question on the dark knight's ability to enfeeble...

Their enfeebling magic is, I think, actually, their dark magic such as Absorb-STR, Absorb-VIT, and so forth.

A dark knight whose dark magic skill is fully capped can absorb 10+ (fixed at 15 now?) stats. So, we can reduce 20+ stats from mobs in conjunction with Chork, Drown, Frost, and so on.

Also, they can cast Sleep and Sleep II. They are a great help in case multiple mobs start to attack us. They can join in MB, too.

[Waldean]

Between Healing/Enfeebling, even if you're up there occasionally whacking away with Enthunder on, it's rare that you actually hit as a rdm/blm. At then end of a fight you'll have maybe 70ish tp if you're lucky, which is a pretty good indicator of how much you're actually hitting. This is compared to other melees, who are pulling 1-2 WS a fight. Generally it's better to be recovering mp if you're not casting.

I've grouped with rdm/war, and even then they get in a WS every 2 fights or so. And Provoke really isn't useful, in that they don't have the near the mitigation that a Pal or War has.

If you want to cast and melee, play a drk or pal.

[MMan530]

I'm disappointed at how little the rdm/war capability for solo'ing has been discussed. A higher level rdm/war with stoneskin and phalanx can really do some amazing solo work. The combination of buffs and debuffs + curative magic AND an augment to tanking PLUS skills like Warcry (Yes, I did say higher level) really make for a great soloing character.

Although, as its been mentioned, if you're looking for parties- rdm/blm and rdm/whm will almost always be picked over rdm/melee.

The reason is this: Red mage is 1/3 blm, 1/3 whm, and 1/3 war.

If you sub war, you're only augmenting 1/3 of the Red Mage's ability. If you sub black or white mage, you're augmenting 2/3's of the Red Mage's ability. In a party that's looking for the fastest xp, they'd rather have a rdm/mage than a rdm/melee just because its a better fit. A rdm/war sort of makes a "pretend" tank that can really just be a liability in the eyes of a white mage or other tanks. You'd have to have some patience to pull this off, but in the long run, its all up to you. Just do whatever you think best fits your gaming personality and style : )

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by MMan530
The reason is this: Red mage is 1/3 blm, 1/3 whm, and 1/3 war.

Well that really isn't that true either even though I agree with most of what you said.

The higher you go, the more you become...

45% White Mage
40% Black Mage
15% Melee

Its why in your terms subbing a Melee with it will barely put it back to 1/3rd melee compared to other true full melees... while dropping the Black AND White magic side far more significantly and only gaining a slight and nearly unnoticable impact on your group related melee.

[Icemage]

For those who want to play melee red mages:

Do us all a favor and pick a job that can cast and actually hit, like DRK.

True story: I was once partied with a RDM in a group in Quicksands and we were pulling in 3.5Kxp/hr. That RDM had to leave, so we ended up replacing him with a RDM 2 levels higher. The second RDM didn't have Refresh, wouldn't do backup healing, and basically just ran up, cast En-whatever, and spent all his MP on nukes (Water II on a Helm Beetle which isn't weak to water?).

Needless to say, our 3.5K XP per hour dropped to 1K xp per hour, and we broke the group up about 45 minutes later.

Yes, the difference IS that significant.


Icemage