Rdm/war

[thuriz_k]

Righto, well I like to enfeeble, but I like to use Melee also, so I thought Ill sub WAR to improve my strength.

I read in another topic that subbing /nin to rdm will enable the user to use 2 swords?

Does that mean a RDM/WAR will be able to use WAR weapons like Sythes and Great swords?

And would subbing war give me any other abilities? Or just improve my stats slightly?

Plz comment.
~Stupid_Thuri

[Apple Pie]

First of all, let's compare stats between Elvaan RDM/WAR and RDM/BLM at LV16/8.

RDM/WAR:
HP273/MP93
STR22, DEX18, VIT19, AGI15, INT16, MND21, CHR18

RDM/BLM:
HP256/MP117
STR19, DEX18, VIT18, AGI15, INT19, MND22, CHR18

Basically, there is no difference between RDM/WAR and RDM/BLM as for the amount of damage your sword does. Additional 3 STR doesn't increase it at all.

Second, you can equip two swords when you become LV20 (LV10 for NIN).

Third, only your main-job determines a type of weapons you can equip. Therefore, you (RDM) can neither equip great swords nor sythes even though you choose WAR for your sub-job.

Finally, as for job abilities and traits that help you melee, RDM/WAR gives you

/5 : Provoke
/10: Defense Bonus (Job Trait)
/15: Berserker (Job Ability)
/25: Defender (Job Ability)
/25: Double Attack (Job Trait)
/30: Attack Bonus (Job Trait)
/35: Warcry (Job Ability)

Then, you get Red Lotus Blade at your sword skill 50 and Vorpal Blade at your skill 200. These weapons skills have EX attribute and you can only use them when your main/sub-jobs are either DRK, PLD, or WAR.

Edited: Double Attack is a Job Trait

[thuriz_k]

Righto, so subbing WAR will allow me to equip 2 swords past level20?

And are you saying that subbing anything only slightly increases your statistics in the subs favor? And that there is no point? lol

Would you recomend becoming a red/war or rdm/nin..

I dont wanna become another rdm/blm or rdm/whm.

Im a hardcore RDM. ^^

[Apple Pie]

No, you need LV10 NIN as your sub-job to equip two weapons. Subbing WAR doesn't allow you to do so.

As for stats, you're correct. Whatever you choose for your sub-job, that doesn't make a big difference in stats such as STR, DEX, VIT and so forth. Compare Elvaan 70RDM/35WAR to 70RDM/35BLM. The former has 68 STR while the latter has 62 STR. The former exceeds the latter only by 6 points... There's almost no difference in damage.

We basically choose sub jobs for their job abilities and job traits. Also, MP differs a lot between non-mage subs and mage subs. That's why we usually choose BLM, SMN, and WHM.

For the last question, if you want to contribute to the PT, I recommend neither of them. I'm not sure what your "hardcore RDM" means but to me, it is those who give ultimate support to the PT. Our contribution may not be visible but everyone knows how we are important and thus, respects us.

I'm not sure what you want to do in this game but if you wanna stick to melee while you cast some, I think DRK should work best for you.

[thuriz_k]

Thanx much for your help.

Ill sub WAR until I get DRK then.

What I meant by hardcore RDM means like, I dont wanna give up my RDM job in order to be melee, but I dont want to be a backrow caster either. lol

Pretty stubborn of me eh?

With WAR as a sub can I still use Provoke with RDM as my main?

[Andena]

When i added Warrior to my subjob i noticed a huge improvement in Damage i was dealing with the same weapons. It added maybe 10 to 15 hp's of damage more for VE creatures. Less of a effect obviously if they are tougher. I mean if the strengh is at 20 thats a low number so adding two or three to that is gonna make a difference. If the number was 200 then no the slight improvement is not gonna matter. Also in my search for items and such dealing with subjobs is everywhere i went you gain all abilities of the subjob including equipment. So i would be able to use a Claymore (Great Sword) when my Warrior is Lv. 10. I have not been able to try it on my own, but read over and over that thats possible.

[Pilsbane]

No, Apple Pie is right, you can only equip items your main job can use. So RDM/NIN will not be able to use Katanas and RDM/WAR will not be able to use Great Swords and Scythes. A RDM/WAR will be able to use Provoke at level 10, again like Apple Pie already said in his reply.

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by thuriz_k
I dont wanna give up my RDM job in order to be melee, but I dont want to be a backrow caster either. lol

Well if you want a group, eventually you will be sitting in the back row.

This is a post from another person just as "Stubborn" as you are claiming to be...

Foojack
39RDM/29NIN/
6DRK/4WAR

I played RDM/NIN to 40. I had alot of fun and felt I was a very effective melee/caster. All hard stats aside about what is the "best" subjob, I had alot of fun with this combo. I enjoyed tha ability to be able to elemental debuff with NIN and then nuke with the RDM. Dual weilded a dagger and sword with the EN- buffs I did respectable damage.

Then the other day I got a invite for a group and was told by the leader that he hoped that I didn't plan on meleeing, to which I promptly replied yes I do. He began to rant about how a RDM's only role in a group was to heal/debuff/nuke and they should never melee because it doesnt give them time to do our job properly and cast spells. I debated the topic with him and dropped it after getting tired of his ignorance. I proceeded to go on and prove him wrong.

Few days later I got a group invite and then promptly got told that the group didnt like my subjob and they were going to look for another.

I decided there comes a point in the game where a "fun" character combination no matter how viable your playing experience finds it to be, will invariably be deemed to be subpar or useless by most that are going to be inviting you to groups. When they do a search and see a RDM/NIN vs a RDM/"ideal job" they will always pick the other guy.

Looking over his words, apparently groups do not see him nearly as effective as he sees himself. But that's beside the point.

He learned eventually, groups don't invite you as a red mage to be a front line fighter... because every other melee class is just that much better at it and will be chosen over and above you for that slot in the party.

They invite you... because you are a back line caster first and foremost. It is the most powerful aspect of your job... while your melee is the weakest of them. They invite you because they need a caster and your Class is Red Mage... not Red Warrior

You don't take advantage of a class to "get you into a group" so you can go melee when thats not what they invited you for. The only thing you are going to prove is how fast you can get booted and how fast you can annoy the group and show them they weren't getting the thing they wanted or needed for the group in the first place... namely... a mage.

[thuriz_k]

Iv been subbing war now for about a week, and using ranged attacks to pull, and provoke to keep monsters from the casters, and am functioning pretty well as a RDM/WAR, even if I deal less dmg than the other WAR in my party, whats the point in me standing in the backrow, when I can deal more than 2 thirds of the same amount of dmg from a normal WAR...

This shouldnt be a game where all parties have the same classes, and the same strategies... and the same restrictions.

You might like boring 2 dimensional games like that but hell, I wanna have fun.

No1's complained so far in-game.

[Ghostraven]

Things will change when you hit the 40's and get refresh.... Most PT's will just want you to keep the mages refreshed and enfeeble. you will be fighting monsters with high evasion so you will rarely be hitting.. and a whm doesn't want to worry about a rdm's low defense getting hit with an area attack.

[Discordian]

Thuri, watch the melee damage start to slide after Quifim. It takes a long hard fall.

[thuriz_k]

Thats what people have been telling me... heh.

Ill probably dabble with nin/drk/war. See what happens.

If all else fails, Ill give up casting and become a drk/war maybe.

Thanx anywayz guys.

[thuriz_k]

Forgive me for double posting, but is a RDM role to just..enfeeble at the start of a battle, then basically sit out? As his nuke power is weak / healing power isnt great?

Is being a RDM really that boring?

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by thuriz_k
Iv been subbing war now for about a week, and using ranged attacks to pull, and provoke to keep monsters from the casters, and am functioning pretty well as a RDM/WAR, even if I deal less dmg than the other WAR in my party, whats the point in me standing in the backrow, when I can deal more than 2 thirds of the same amount of dmg from a normal WAR...

Yup, up through the mid 20s thats the case, because your melee skills haven't started to decline yet and other melee classes haven't started to seperate themselves from the pack yet... don't worry... they will start to leave you in the dust the higher you go... no matter what your sub.

This shouldnt be a game where all parties have the same classes, and the same strategies... and the same restrictions.

You might like boring 2 dimensional games like that but hell, I wanna have fun.

No1's complained so far in-game.

Thats because you haven't hit 30th yet, or in this case 40th.

And you are under the assumption its up to you as to whether you get into groups at higher levels with a /war sub. I just gave it to you in someone elses words. who has been in your shoes. Did he say it was up to him as to whether he got into a group?

Nope it was up to others.... So sooner or later YOU will either be "2 dimensional" in your words... or you will be playing alone.

But I've seen a million like you, everyone of them wanting to be that melee mage.... they get told the same things over and over about how Red Mage melee skills go into the tank compared to other classes... but they have to do it anyway... only to be sorely disappointed at higher levels because no one will group with them anymore.

[Azael]

Don't waste your time leveling up your red mage past where you are now. I'm a RDM lvl 34, and i do piddly damage even with my EN spells. I have yet to meet a viable RDM tank of any kind. You are ment to be a mage, the sword skill is mostly to give you an edge over other mages in soloing. if you really like meele with some magic, go dark or paladin. DRK sounds like a perfect fit for you, they get a majority of the rdms enfeebles and do great damage. Often the Darks will pull using Bio so thats a great enfeeble (although it count's as dark it still enfeebles) oportunity for you. I would say, take your WAR to 30, level either thf or mnk to sub it till 30 ( you don't really need to get your sub to max lvl if you are just planning to switch, you can just get by till 30. Then switch to dark and sub war. This seems to be the perfect fit for your playing style, you can use either a scythe or GS (Although scythe can be better, i would use both if i were you) and hack away and have fun with some of the BLM spells

Edit: To answer your question, The RDM's job depends mostly on your Subjob, if you are a /whm, you are expected to enfeeble and assist heal, i often regen the tanks so that the whm can focus on pure cure spells. if you are /blm it's pretty much the same except you can throw in a nuke here or there. RDM is a very interesting and rewarding job just because of the change in dynamics through the levels and also, because you are a great asset to any pt if you play right. No one may notice it, but you will notice the effect of all your enfeebles (Try not enfeebling the monster right off and see how slow things go ^^