Monks CAN TANK! (hear me out)

[modnar]

Well, for the Red Mage its a different story. When I start my RDM, you I will be posting in the RDM forum, and I will start complaining about him. The reason is that I don't agree that some of the RDM's spells should be "on-self", but should actualy allowed to be cast by the RDM onto party members. But that, is my opinion and IS a "why can't I..." argument.

However, I see the RDM and the MNK seperatly though. You are right that RDM has these spells but does not qualify as a Tank, but I think that is more because he is more a mage than a melee type character. Monk is a melee type character and has the above mentioned defensive characteristics that are being utterly disregarded. (I mean even the last ability the Monk gets, counter-stance, DEPENDS on the monk getting hit...)

[Cali]

lol

Modnar, this post is going non-stop lol

Pre-30, MNK makes good tanker, even better than some PLD.. at some cases...

Post-30, the role slowly shift toward backup tanker...

Post-60, I think most will prefer an attacker monk such as MNK/SAM...

MNK doesn't make that bad of a tank, regardless of their low def, they still have good evasion and all but it doesn't mean people should just steal the supposed tankers' jobs, PLD or NIN or WAR, but at appropiate time, tank for the party The thing is, not many realised the fact that monk can tank, many believed monk is just a ranger with fists instead of bows... but monk is like a dragoon or samurai, who can tank if really needed to ;

[FeralisCallidus]

Monk is a backup tank, a trick tank.

Modnar, you obviously don't have counterstance, do you?

When you get it, use it and peek at your defense. It will be abyssmal =\

[modnar]

I know about Counter-stance' taking my DEF down to almost nothing, but I am just saying that counter-stance only works when getting hit.

I guess what I am aiming for is to make sure that everything is capped for my monk to prove the whole argument one way or the other for myself. I am stubborn, I admit. I just love the monk too much...

[Synbios]

Thief's ranged attack missed.
Monk uses Provoke on the Sand Cockatrice.
The Sand Cockatrice hits Monk for 120 points of damage.
The Sand Cockatrice hits Monk for 120 points of damage.
Thief scores a critical hit!
The Sand Cockatrice takes 300 points of damage.
Paladin uses Provoke on the Sand Cockatrice.
The Sand Cockatrice hits Paladin for 80 points of damage.
Monk uses Berserk.
Paladin uses Defender.

Get the drift?

Under 40, with the low XP needed to get to next level, you can get away with any stupid job setups and get away with it since MP effeciency is probably as foreign as Tu'Lia is to you, but with the crazy XP required to next level from 55 onwards, MP effeciency and good chaining is needed, meaning you don't waste MP healing someone with paper armor so you can save those MP for a few more fights to rake in more XP with a higher chain.

[Synbios]

Originally posted by modnar
FeralisCallidus, just to bring to your attention that nobody is using the phrase "why can't I..." I am talking about the monk in this game, FFXI, not the monk in any other setting (not even an other FF game).

I am talking about many factors within the monk that happen to be more defensive measures than offensive measures. I have mentioned them in an other post, but I will say them here.


High Vitality.
High HP.
Evasion.
Skill: Dodge.
Skill: Counter-attack.
Skill: Counter-stance.

Do those traits have anything to do with attacking?

Now, YOU tell me, does it look like I am asking for something that the monk does not already possess, or is it that I am asking to give the monk's abilities the chance to prove themselves?

You are right in that damage over time is not something to "shake a stick at", but I think that the monk job is alot deeper than what people think.

Cause MNK is the best sub for a tanking WAR until 74/75 (with the arguments of WAR/MNK vs WAR/NIN tank) and those traits help a tanking WAR a lot. Notice that most of them are pre-35 while the attacking stuff kicks in post 35? With the exception of Counterstance which is essential for a MNK to break genkai 5, a tank with Counterstance would spell disaster for a mage anyway.

[Yoko]

Only way i can see a monk tank better then a war: Cross-counters, the counter+ earrings, lvl 45+ for counter stance, maxed defensive skills, and all the counter+ stuff you can find (including 2 lvl 50 mnk rings)

With all those bonuses to counter, maybe ull get to counter every single hit, so that must really be awesome lol....major bad part bout this is getting the cross-counters.....1.5 million gil if i remember right ; ; (it might be 4 mil too i dont remember all that well)

Out of reach for most people anyways....

[TMPikachu]

there's also high lvl mnk/sam/nin armor with each piece adding an elemental spikes effect...
a ball of countering elemental spikes, sounds fun actually

who knows, maybe SE intended them as semi-backup tanks

[modnar]

Synbios... wait let me quote you and ask you the question...


"you can get away with any stupid job setups and get away with it since MP effeciency is probably as foreign as Tu'Lia is to you"...


I understand the need for you to make an argument and a point, but does it need to be rude and insulting? You are addressing me personaly rather than addressing the Monk class. Don't start attacking me about not knowing "MP efficiency"... It would be enough to say "to use MP effieciently, the Monk etc, etc, ... etc". Talk about the game, don't talk about me... why are you talking about me?! Did you see me play the game, or partied with me? Did I give you a bad party experience once? What is it?

I am simply expressing opinion and trying to back opinion with some sort of reasoning.

You make good points, but too bad your method of communicating your opinion is so ... <sigh>

I'll try to read your posts for the substance they carry ...

[Synbios]

Originally posted by modnar
Synbios... wait let me quote you and ask you the question...


"you can get away with any stupid job setups and get away with it since MP effeciency is probably as foreign as Tu'Lia is to you"...


I understand the need for you to make an argument and a point, but does it need to be rude and insulting? You are addressing me personaly rather than addressing the Monk class. Don't start attacking me about not knowing "MP efficiency"... It would be enough to say "to use MP effieciently, the Monk etc, etc, ... etc". Talk about the game, don't talk about me... why are you talking about me?! Did you see me play the game, or partied with me? Did I give you a bad party experience once? What is it?

I am simply expressing opinion and trying to back opinion with some sort of reasoning.

You make good points, but too bad your method of communicating your opinion is so ... <sigh>

I'll try to read your posts for the substance they carry ...

"You" is a general term, I wasn't quoting anyone, but referring to most as a general, if you find it offending, sub "you" = "one" for better results.

[laicram]

Diaries of a Mnk/War tank 3/11/04:

Garliage Citadel - err Train Station =) I suffered my War to Lvl36 here, and it was time for my Mnk32 to take the plunge.

I was delighted to see that my usual Def Equip + Def Food routine was still working here. In my 1st PT there as MNK, there were 3 other melees - all in Centurion. After prot, their def were 163, 168, 15x. My def + food: 202 =D

After the 1st fight, the Whm32 (fresh from Khazam, no doubt) started to complain, "The bat's hitting you really hard - Mnk shouldn't be the tank". I broke it down for him.

Me: "The monsters hit much harder here than in Khazam - it's a hard transition, actually."

Me: "Melee, what is everyone's def plz?" (They reply)

Me: "You see, if anyone else tanked , they'd get hit for much worse."

I said all the right things, but of course, it didn't sink in for the whm - oh well.

Got a lil EXP, in spite of the constant mob trains =/ Then the Whms left. No Whm = PT break. I marched home to Jeuno happy, knowing that I can still be the best tank in group, train guard and not be a burden to the PT. So far, so good.