Monks CAN TANK! (hear me out)

[Voyager]

Just on a side point, reguardless of whether or not Monks were ment to be primary tanks, there are times when it all drops in the pot, and you're the lucky sod who gets to distract Big Nasty, while the Paladin and mages put eachother back together again, and it behoves one to be able to do a good job of it.

I know I'm rather new, and I've only up to lvl 20 Monk so far, and I'm sure that by the time you reach lvl 60 the parties make far fewer stupid mistakes, but I sure every so often the Ninja gets nailed by some devestator skill, and every so often the Padalin DC's just as the puller gets back with his or her little friend in tow. Life gets real interesting then.

On a side note, it is possible to improve your defensive skills by agroing something, and simply standing within striking distance of it, without actually initiating combat.

Ask me how I know this.

Harry Voyager

[Cali]

If you have a lv40+ monk or so, and really want to lvl your guard, go form a skill up party and go to qufim etc.... find monk-type monsters, monster that hits twice, and sub whm, since it's not exp you are after... Most important, stay near zone.

Yea, basically MNKs are backup tank, I usually play the scapegoat if we have a THF, or I play distractor, since I don't need to hold for long, just a few seconds, so I only provoke when needed, and if the monster doesn't turn, I will use boost, focus, dodge etc to boost my hate...

To me, I think even at high level, every party needs a backup tank, sometimes, it's not anyone's mistake that a linkable monster spawned near you... or the monster you are fighting used an extra strong hit... so
for PLD tank, there may be time that PLD will be low on hp, and a backup tanker, ie MNK/WAR can provoke it off for like at most 30 seconds.
for NIN tank, I always provoke when NIN is recasting Utsusemi, because if they do get hit, they have a delay before casting another Utsusemi after disturbed... and that time will hurt plus a good NIN will always provoke back after he recast utsusemi, so no worries

Basically, MNK/WAR should be more than just a puncher in party, they can be the backup tanker, since backup tanker shouldnt need to tank for the battle, just for like 30seconds while the PLD recovers... and MNK/WAR can definately tank better than DRG, SAM, DRK, RNG, THF....

[FeralisCallidus]

and MNK/WAR can definately tank better than DRG, SAM, DRK, RNG, THF....

Not sure I entirely agree with this. Samurai get much better armor than monks most of the time, giving them the edge defense-wise.

But yeah, rangers get torn apart -.-;

[Cali]

Read earlier pages of this thread... but since its too much trouble, I will type again for you ^.~

I tanked better than a WAR/THF mithra at same lvl, I was on lvl 20 armors, she was on lvl 27 armors... plus all accessories, and I had none... Def does help, but MNK can dodge a bit, so that covered the def loss...

Well I might be a bit extreme on DRG and SAM, but... MNK can tank well as a backup

[laicram]

Back again - hope my posts aren't too annoying =P

I enjoy tanking, and I intend to keep doing it as long as Food + Equip can keep up with the pack.

To respond to an earlier post, buidling your monk as main tank is an "all-or-nothing" path. You're either a Main Tank or a Damage Dealer/Backup Voker. Investing in half defense/half attack is only handicapping your efforts on both ends.

About "x tank is better than y tank" arguments: In a perfect world, Mnk/War is not the best tank.

But in reality - what you see when you log on, there are new players running around with no skills, gimped gear, un-lvled sub jobs. In this world, a well-equipped Mnk/War can be the best tank in the zone.

I'm not telling ppl how they should play - do what you want, man =)

[Karinya]

Originally posted by laicram
Back again - hope my posts aren't too annoying =P

I enjoy tanking, and I intend to keep doing it as long as Food + Equip can keep up with the pack.

To respond to an earlier post, buidling your monk as main tank is an "all-or-nothing" path. You're either a Main Tank or a Damage Dealer/Backup Voker. Investing in half defense/half attack is only handicapping your efforts on both ends.

OK, I've been following this thread for a while, and mostly I've agreed with your points, but here you just fall into the trap of some of the people arguing against you.

They say, "I don't train my defense skills and all my gear is +attack -defense or +accuracy -evasion! I get massacred! Monks can't tank!" when it's really not a weakness of monks AS A JOB, but of their specific gear and food choices and not training their defense skill.

However, what you say here is that you can ONLY have damage dealer equipment OR tank equipment. This is not true - you can have BOTH. You can change equipment any time, even in combat using macros or typed commands. Certainly you can keep one set of gear for damage dealing, another for tanking, and switch according to your role in any particular party. Even if you had to change every equipment in your inventory (which you usually won't until 50+ if then) you'll still have plenty of room if you do a gobbiebag quest or two (ridiculously easy if you have the fame and some gil - and there's no excuse for a non-mage not to have gil). If you are forming groups in town it is even easier as you have access to your mog house or nomad moogles.

Warriors have to carry 3-4 weapons, a shield, and attacker and tank gear - and train multiple weapon skills and their defensive skills - to fill the roles they commonly fill in a party and to be the missing link in skillchains. Yet some Monks on this forum - who only need ONE weapon and weapon skill - balk at needing a few different gears and foods, and restrict themselves to an artificially narrow view of their job based on their own choices.

Some jobs can only effectively fill one role - PLD, BLM, DRG are good examples. Others such as RDM and WAR can fill several roles according to what the party needs at the time.

If a job with the defense and HP of NIN can tank, it's clear that at least some jobs can take on roles that are a little different from what you might expect. I'll bet whoever invented NIN blink tanking got laughed at a lot, too, until people saw that it actually worked.

About "x tank is better than y tank" arguments: In a perfect world, Mnk/War is not the best tank.

But in reality - what you see when you log on, there are new players running around with no skills, gimped gear, un-lvled sub jobs. In this world, a well-equipped Mnk/War can be the best tank in the zone.

I'm not telling ppl how they should play - do what you want, man =)

Well, I know this is meaningless since we're not on the same server, but I'd invite you to tank for my PT anytime. And since I'm sometimes the main healer, and always at least the #2 healer, that's not just empty talk.

[Taoist]

great link modnar

and i only worry about guard when i'm farming and my vgd. gear doesnt work fast enough or because those stupid easy prey skinks in sauromouge arent so easy because they leave me with 90/755 health at lvl 37 :confused:

[laicram]

Hi Karina,

I see your point. Multiple gear does make perfect sense. I just keep spending my cash on food instead of att/acc items =P

When I said "handicapping your efforts", I meant like equipping a Vit+2 and a Dex+2 ring simultaneously. There's no need to equip Vit+2 when you're not taking hits, for example.

Being able to equip for either role IS uber, but I've never had to switch. Since I decided to start tanking at 21, I haven't met a single WAR that can beat my defensive setup. The WARs get to use Berserk and everyone's happy, see? =)

I'm just now a MNK30 with a Guard of 65. I'm gaining on my WAR33 job with a Parry of 76. I've tanked as both, and I did a fine job as both - actually better with Monk cuz I started using food. So far, I give MNK tanking up to 30, two thumbs up!

Karina, I appreciate your comment - I'd tank for you! =D I learn my lvling areas very well, and I pull for chains, too =)

[DJplaeskool]

Wait until higher levels...
you'll learn -the hard way- that monks can not tank...
perhaps it's feasible at lower level, but you'll be dismounted from the high horse mighty quick if you don't leave the tanking to those more suited for the task...
trust me, I've been taught that lesson on several occasions...

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If you insist on keeping the aggro, at least during those clutch moments when you tanking is better than say, the WHM getting pwned, have guard and evasion maxed (Fighting other MNK type monsters is the best way to do so, since they attack almost non-stop), and have a macro for chakra with +VIT equip changes.

and, Concentration/Evasion are your best friends...

[laicram]

=O

DJplaeskool, has been there, done that. Much respect to you. It sounds like like my jolly tanking journey will end much sooner than later =(

Edit: I still stand by what I've discovered/accomplished so far. Monks can tank well to 30 at least, and I'll let everyone here know how far I get!

[Aneyeisuponyou]

30 is about the cut line where you take hits close to the same as war or pld. The higher you get the worse it is.

[Cali]

Even though that is true, we can still be the backup tank... post-30, the tanking world is belong to PLD and NIN anyway... but we can still be a backup tank

I was forced to tank last night in crawler's nest... I have been rejecting but party leader decided to get DRG and RNG in... and no one wanted to tank, so I had to tank, if I don't, the team will end... we can't do anything w/o a proper tank... luckily I have been trained as a tanker since started =_=; but it was a nightmare, we did get good exp, somehow the mage's MP stayed at OK zone every end-of-fight.... but I get hit for like 100 per hit =_=;; for choosing stat > def equips... (plus I am cheap, don't want to buy anything unless they are really worth it, ie Fuma Kyahan... which I can't afford)

But yea, post-30, tanking for MNK is impossible, though it still works, but we shouldn't planned on having a MNK be a main tank....

[imac2much]

I think it's really neat that you guys are trying to break the mold and make your job more versatile. I agree that before 30, MNK is one of the better tanks out there (up with WAR, PLD, NIN, SAM).

I'd say the difference gets more noticeable after 40-50ish. Evasion skill makes no difference, remarkably enough. I have 2 Bat earrings that give me +30 evasion total when I'm blind. Even so, I still get hit almost every time by IT mobs even though my evasion is maxed. I dodge hits mostly when I use Flash on them... which is like a super blind and only lasts a few seconds.

The problem isn't really equipment since, like posters have stated, you can switch around. It's food. Are you going to use fish or meat mithkabobs? With fish you will take a significantly less amount of damage, but won't hit for much... and vice versa. Without fish mithkas, you're going to get hit for over 100-150 each hit, barely dodging or guarding any. With fish I don't see how you're going to be doing enough damage to keep aggro from the real damage dealers (nuking BLM, sidewinder/barrage RNG, guillotine DRK, penta spam DRG, jinpu/yukikaze spam SAM, etc). You'll realize at higher levels how delicate the balance is between getting slaughtered by hits and keeping aggro. MNK just can't find a good balance here. They either get hit way too hard, or can't do enough damage to keep aggro.

[Aneyeisuponyou]

I saw someone mention Sam as a weaker tank then a monk, I'd have to disagree. If you want a sweet unconventional lower-mid 40's group test this out. Work alot better if you are /war btw. Thf and you(monK) as melee dps, sam tank, 2 blm, and a rdm healer ( 42+ plus with refresh a must). Thf pulls, monk vokes, thf tricks onto sam, sam tanks you get Fusion from Tachi:Kegero (spelling) for fire and distortion out of viper and Tachi:enchi for water. A Fire II and Waterga II Mb from 2 blm's and all dps melee ( sam way better dps then pld ) rdm can keep up healing np with as short as the fight will be and refresh can keep the blm's nuking. Has to be one of my favorite groups of all time.

[Zane]

.

Dont get me wrong about what i said earlier, monk CAN tank but theyre far from an ideal tank, at 59 hume mnk/war im at about 1400 hps, might as well use them:

example 1: as a mnk war who always PTs with a thf im the secondary provoker. my job consists of provoking on the pull to set up trick attack. i use dodge/defender and boosted chi blast with provoke and position the monster for the trick onto the main tank. my dodge and defender macros contain /item "Dodge Earring" (+3 evasion each) lines and a few others to swap in ideal gear for those /ja's. My berserk macro contain /item "Beetle Earring +1" (+3 attack, -2 eva). I tank for this duration quite well, after the trick I click off Defender, hit Focus and Berserk (thus switching to my +attack, -def/eva stuff) and unload. Chakra or a Regen 2 is about all I need for the damage I take during this process.

example 2: My regular PT is a whm, rdm, blm, thf, me (mnk). Tanks were hard to come by so we used to chain VT monsters for 100ish+ experience a kill. This was at 57ish on Sand Lizards in Kuftal. Again, Provoke, Dodge, Defender and situational gear play a pretty big part in this role. It wasnt 4k exp an hour but it actually worked out pretty well, we could kill them, downtime wasnt too horrid, and it beat sitting around Jeuno looking for a tank.


Just dont expect to get invited to a PT as a main tank past 20ish. People are picky and rightly so, monk tank will eat up a lot more mana than most other melee jobs.

Dodge:
/equip l.ear "Dodge Earring"
/equip r.ear "Dodge Earring"
/ja "Dodge" <me>
/echo ~> Dodge Mode <~

Defender:
/equip l.ear "Dodge Earring"
/equip r.ear "Dodge Earring"
/ja "Defender" <me>
/echo ~> *Defensive* <~

Berserk:
/equip l.ear "Beetle Earring +1"
/equip r.ear "Beetle Earring +1"
/ja "Berserk" <me>
/echo ~~> Attack Mode <~~


You can also throw in Emp. Hairpin for evasion situations, AF helm linked to Focus JA, Phalanx Rings to defender, etc into your gear/ja macros. Really seems to help a ton.