Monks CAN TANK! (hear me out)

[laicram]

Hey neat post, Zane. I know other hi-lvl players briefly mention setting up for trick attacks and misc tanking, but none with the simple detail you gave.

You're totally right about not getting invited to tank - except it's more like 1-75. There is a large stereotype against Mnks tanking. I suppose it's 99% true, because I've never run into a Monk like me =(


Diaries of a Mnk/War tank 2/19/04:

At Mnk31, my days in Yhaotor Jungle were near an end. I found a PT with a Pal31. I thought, "Doh! I won't be able to tank." He was decently equipped, showing Ceturion Armor + Sheild, so I asked him his def. "177 (with Prot2). 202 with Sentinel." he said smugly. I replied, "Oh, my def is 153 w/Prot2, and 197 with Fish Kabob." I didn't use my def food and he tanked...

Anyways, at one point the Pal went AFK, so I leapt at the chance to Tank. I popped a food and I stated to pull. I was doing a good job like I always do=P Then, the Pal came back.

I asked if I could keep tanking til my food wore off. The Pal was like fine. I was already in the flow, so I threw in, "Hey I can keep doing this - my def is better the Pal's anyways." Enter the blind stereotypes...

Pal:"No you're defense isn't as good as mine - I'm 202 w/Sentinel"

Me:"Sure, but that lasts 30 seconds/5 Min cooldown? I'm 197 for 30 minutes - and I have plenty of food"

Whm: "No Han, don't tank, it'll be extra mana I have to spend." Totally not hearing anything I said.

I hit Mnk32 and the lvl29s wanted me out so I just left. End Log.



A Monk looking to tank will face opposition/blind predjudice. I guess there's not enough of "Mnks built to tank" out there to get the message across.

I think I'll make a Mnk/War tanking guide to 30. I'll condense the data in this thread and add some things. If enough Mnks start to pick this route, maybe the stereotype (at least to lvl30), can be undone =O

[Taoist]

*tear*

/praise Haneko!

[modnar]

I, for one, would love your Monk Tanking Guide. Believe me, alot of people would read it. Alot of people mishgt disagree with it. Alot of people might rethink thier opinions.

If we post this guide in these forums, and then have people go at it for a while to perfect it, then we can hit the www.gamefaqs.com, the notion of Monk Tank would spread, and maybe Monks would have an easier time doing something other than swinging thier fists.

[Atis]

laicram- While thats a great story, you gotta consider the fact that from then on your equipment starts to fall behind further and further defensive wise.

At level 50 a Galka monk had 180 def, Myself 235, and an Elvaan Paladin 275. If the Pld throws on food, sentinal or defender, the defense gap becomes even bigger.

While your def was higher than the pld's, you gotta consider a few things.

1. You were using food where he was not, had he been using food your def would not have been higher than his.

2. He has a shield, which allows him to negate some attacks completly.

3. He could heal himself, saving mana for the whm and thus downtime. Even if you were to take 5-10 less dmg per round from the mand, its negated by the fact he can turn around and heal himself, as well of course block.

Around level 30 the defense difference does start to show a bit.. however its especially apparent around 40-50, as thats when the armor forms a big gap.

As I've said before, a mnk is capable of tanking and makes an awesome secondary tank. However for tanking abilities I would rank monk in about 4-5th place. Like i said though, I'd much rather see a monk take a hit rather than the healer.

[Cali]

At 40+, tanking for monk is much harder, I could still tank in a PT if I have to, but I can do it, because I know how to hold aggro, trained since lv10... but the damage I take is awful, like 100 per hit, pretty much the same as a PLD tanker who has 200 HP less than me. I wouldn't advise on volunteer tanking, but tank if you have to, if there is a PLD or NIN, leave them the tanking job...

Monk is more like a backup tanker at 40+, we tank when there is THF in PT, I assume most of you know that we have to do a different plan for TA or the hate will be shared on both secondary tanker and main tanker... that's when MNK comes into tanking...

After 34, most MNK will get their Ochiudo's Kote, Evasion-10, 1 of the tanking advantage of MNK is being reduced by 10... O.o; but Attack+20 and Evasion-10, I would choose Attack+20 I would go for stat > def equips at higher lvl, aka reducing my tanking stat to nothing... especially at crawler nest where everything is immune to H2H... the attack bonus is better than Def...

*H2H is very bad against Soft-body, aka Crawler. and bad against Shelled monsters, ie Fly and Beetles....

[imac2much]

Saying that his guide can be discussed in gamefaqs is an oxymoron, and even an insult... that place is the WORST place for "discussion", unless you define discussion as immature flaming, whining, e-flaunting, and, best of all, outright lying.

Many of you are right, MNK can tank well up to 30, even up to 50 if need be, if they are geared toward defense. However, if you start to gear yourself toward defense (no kote, no meat mithka, using defender once 50, etc) you'll do crap damage, and won't hold aggro. Yes you think you can hold aggro because at the moment you are doing a lot of damage, provoking every 30 sec, etc... but that becomes moot when people get their lvl 150-250 WS's like penta, guillo, sidewinder, etc... no way you're going to keep aggro from that when your raging fists with gear/food focused on DEF will do like 50 damage.

You're right, there's some prejudice against MNK tanking which is uncalled for at lower levels (just like people thinking PLD are uber tanks even at low levels...), but this prejudice has basis. The higher level you go, the less you can tank... even with all your best gear focused on DEF, you will take much more damage than a good PLD, plus you will do crap damage, plus you can't hold aggro. So basically you're worse than PLD, WAR, and NIN tanks... not sure why you would tank unless you are just stubborn and want to prove a point at the sacrifice of your PT, or you can't find any of those 3 jobs to join your PT...

But as most people say, MNKs are very good backup tanks, when you need the mob to turn so THF can fuidama on the main tank. I personally prefer SAM cuz of 3rd eye, but MNK is good too if they use defender for that instance they provoke, then take it off after pld gets aggro again.

Right now I can get up to 580 def, and I have 94 VIT. I think MNK has like 200 def (with berserk) and like 50 VIT. Guess who makes the better tank

Sorry for the long post, but I just found it funny that someone would mention gamefaqs as a good place to discuss this, since 99% of the crap there is just pure BS. Theory is good and all, but as you get higher level and experience the game even more, you'll realize a lot of things you think would work... just won't work. Maybe at low and mid levels, but the difference just gets wider and wider, so what's the point of focusing a MNK to this goal when you can't do it at high levels? Plus, MNK are THE main attackers lvl 70+ when you're fighting bones in ranperres, etc...

[Taoist]

Originally posted by Atis

1. You were using food where he was not, had he been using food your def would not have been higher than his...

i agree with the points on the sheild and healing but the food one is different... because the situation wasnt that they both had food... it was that the monk DID have fish kabobs and the pld didnt... of course had he bought some beforehand; it would be a whole nother story

[modnar]

imac2much... Please read what I said, and I quote myself:

"If we post this guide in these forums, "

(NOT in www.gamefaqs.com)


"and then have people go at it for a while to perfect it,"

(here, these forums, not www.gamefaqs.com)

"then we can hit the www.gamefaqs.com, the notion of Monk Tank would spread,"

(as in putting it in the most famous quide infected webiste, www.gamefaqs.com, to SPREAD the notion of Monk tanking)

"and maybe Monks would have an easier time doing something other than swinging thier fists."

(and thus we would be getting less opposition to the Monk tanking notion, defeat the wide spread prejedice againsts us tanking, and actualy DO something in a fight OTHER than just dealing damage.)


Thus you are finding something funny in something that was NOT said.

If most people read www.gamefaqs.com right now, they get the idea that Monks should NEVER tank from lvl1 until forever! And alot of people playing DO think that, and it gets annoying!!

It gets SO bad, that some party leaders in the game utterly REFUSE the idea of a Monk even PULLING (NOT TANKING... only PULLING).

If we are going to beat the idiotic falacy of Monks being as utterly fragile and nothin more than idiotic damage dealers, I want to go to the most read source on the internet! www.gamefaqs.com, whether its a realiable source or not, because, like it or not, alot of people BELIEVE it. And that, I wish was funny... but its not.

I hope at least what I am saying is clear.

[imac2much]

Sorry Modnar, you're right, I didn't read it carefully enough. My apologies.

But still.. why must you care about that stupid forum? :p

If you are really in PTs that think MNK can't tank at low levels, just leave... regardless of gamefaqs, there will always be an incredible amount of idiots at those low levels. You're right, MNK can tank and pull very well at low levels, and even at mid-high levels they are good secondary tanks and pullers (with chi blast). But making a FAQ of some sort isn't going to fix this mentality in the actual game... I bet most of the ignorant players don't even read forums or FAQs.

[FeralisCallidus]

and actualy DO something in a fight OTHER than just dealing damage.)

Stop bitching. You deal the most damage overtime at upper levels, and that is nothing to shake a stick at. Get off your high horse, you can't do everything. Period. Next thing you know you will be asking why you don't have an MP pool for healing; "I'm a monk! Shaolin monks can do some weird magic stuff! I should too!!!"

Get over it \=

[modnar]

Triple Post.

[modnar]

Triple Post.

[modnar]

FeralisCallidus, just to bring to your attention that nobody is using the phrase "why can't I..." I am talking about the monk in this game, FFXI, not the monk in any other setting (not even an other FF game).

I am talking about many factors within the monk that happen to be more defensive measures than offensive measures. I have mentioned them in an other post, but I will say them here.


High Vitality.
High HP.
Evasion.
Skill: Dodge.
Skill: Counter-attack.
Skill: Counter-stance.

Do those traits have anything to do with attacking?

Now, YOU tell me, does it look like I am asking for something that the monk does not already possess, or is it that I am asking to give the monk's abilities the chance to prove themselves?

You are right in that damage over time is not something to "shake a stick at", but I think that the monk job is alot deeper than what people think.

[Ungerpurr]

I've been the primary tank for a group as recently as level 40 (inviting a level 39 war/whm using 1H sword and no food as the tank for the group wasn't exactly a good decision, so I ended up tanking). Of course, this was a 2 whm group, so it didn't really matter that I tanked like ass (had to use meat instead of fish kabob to hold aggro). The whms took turns, each pretty much blew their wad every fight keeping me alive, and they were tarus, at that. Granted, I was in full offensive gear, using offensive food, but even at the other end of the spectrum I probably would've only been taking 1/4-1/3 less damage.

I'm not convinced monks are weak vs. crawler-type mobs, I'm WSing soldier crawlers for the same kind of damage that I hit goblins in gustav tunnel for (~350-450 damage on a 5-hit raging fists, depending on whether or not I was berserking at the time). Of course, cocoon tends to destroy the WS damage. Leeches, yes; but I don't know for sure that crawlers fall into the same category. I could be wrong.

I only see my defense going down until it gets a slight boost at 55. Warrior mobs that can double attack me for 80-100 damage per hit, crit up to 150 make me more than a little nervous - I'll let the plds tank, at this point! At what level your tanking ability starts to go downhill is entirely up to yourself, as you select your own gear. Keep in mind, though, that at some point (reached around level 25), there is no happy medium for a single set of gear that provides both damage output and tankability. Be ready to switch gear depending on role if you want to continue tanking at that point. By level 30, you (and your party members) should really be using food; you can't easily switch that, as you're locked into your food 30 minutes at a time.

[TMPikachu]

Originally posted by modnar
FeralisCallidus, just to bring to your attention that nobody is using the phrase "why can't I..." I am talking about the monk in this game, FFXI, not the monk in any other setting (not even an other FF game).

I am talking about many factors within the monk that happen to be more defensive measures than offensive measures. I have mentioned them in an other post, but I will say them here.


High Vitality.
High HP.
Evasion.
Skill: Dodge.
Skill: Counter-attack.
Skill: Counter-stance.

Do those traits have anything to do with attacking?

Now, YOU tell me, does it look like I am asking for something that the monk does not already possess, or is it that I am asking to give the monk's abilities the chance to prove themselves?

You are right in that damage over time is not something to "shake a stick at", but I think that the monk job is alot deeper than what people think.

Redmages have blaze spikes (amongst others)
stoneskin
Phalanx
Protect
En-spells
n' blink

they're still not tanks.