Drg/drk *at Level 60+*

[Reaperx90]

What do you think? I only ask because I've heard nothing but good things about Soul Eater's damage output, and the Super Jump at the end of it to shed the hate/save your ass.

I am pretty sure this is a no-no pre level 60 though, but I'd just like to see some input from more experienced DRGS.

...

And to anyone who may get the urge to say anything resembling "look at all the other posts" I reply: I ran a search and the only two posts that touched on this subject 1) did not even mention Super Jump to shed the hate borne by Soul Eater (which leads me to believe that it was nothing but a bunch of n00bs dreaming of the high damage), and 2) were dead anway.

Any and all informed input is greatly appreciated

[Omena]

Soul Eater probably is nice, yeah, but with WAR sub you get Double Attack (yummy!), Berserk (much better than Last Resort from DRK), Def Boost, Attack Boost and Defender for those times when you for example have to voke the mob off a dying tank.

Not entirely sure, but I think WAR also gives a bit better raw stat bonuses than DRK.

[Bamce Sylph]

don't forget your spells are worthless, and if u do pull hate, well..... dkn aren't know for they're defensive capablities

[Carbon]

Originally posted by Bamce Sylph
don't forget your spells are worthless, and if u do pull hate, well..... dkn aren't know for they're defensive capablities

That would be where the Super Jump comes in.

I've yet to see DRG/DRK myself, and I'm really interested in how it would work, even with a nerfed Soul Eater.

With Soul Eater active, I've seen DRK's do respectable damage from even one-hitter Guillotines (around 200 damage), whereas a 2-4 hitter seems to do anywhere from 500 to 1000+ damage vs Incredibly Tough mobs. Compare that with a one-hitter Penta Thrust, that does around 50 damage

[Reaperx90]

Since making the thread I also thought about the cooldown time....what is it? 10 minutes for Super Jump? That means that you only have that enhanced damage output 3 out of every 10 minutes....less if the mob gets angry at you early. You can chance it with High Jump which would cut the cooldown to 6 minutes...but that's taking a chance.

As for the WAR bonuses...I'm under the impression that most non-tank classes (DRG and DRK, mainly) switch to THF sub for that added damage output post 60, but I could easily be wrong on that. WAR is THE only choice up until level 60, though.

Just thought I'd throw more coal on the fire - continue discussion!

[GSDragoon]

Super Jump is every 5 minutess.

If you sub THF, SA does not get the huge dmg bonus as it does when the main is THF. +25% attack and double hit are going to be the best at 50+.

[Bamce Sylph]

imo people sub theif high because of lots of dex and sneak, but honestly just level theif and war, possibly sam, beserk/double attack is much better than souleater could hope to be, expecially with the self infliced injury. also w/ war sub u get warcry which is a little atk boost, and the passive attack boost from war's

[Crisis]

I can't comment for the higher part of this combo but I can comment on what i've done so far. First off, you can't compare Drg/Drk souleater to a Drk souleater, or for that matter Drg vs Drk, because of course, the Drk is gonna do more damage, it's there job. But my comparison will be from my experience with other Drg i've partied with, cause thats realy what we're looking for here, Drg vs Drg.

Ok, Drg/Drk loses provoke, thats the most obvious thing here. The lack of ability to use provoke in the occasion of the tank dying is of course there. There have been time when I wished I had provoke, there were times when It wasn't needed at all. It all depended on the group I had and if everyone knew what they were doing etc... If you don't know who your playing with, go /War definatly, you never know when you'll need the provoke and what not. If your sure you wont be needing to provoke much, then this isn't a big deal.

Damage output, Drg/Drk compared to Drg/War, my normal attacks have out damaged Drg/War attacks 85% of the time, even with them using Berserk. So from my experience, the loss of berserk isn't that big a deal cause my damage matched or exceeded a Drg/War with berserk on. Some people can argue with me that i'm wrong, but this is from my personal experience over many groups, same equipment, etc. So as far as i'm concerned, Berserk doens't make to much difference for a Drg/Drk.

Defense wise, Drg/Drk take damage like little school girls... Terrible. So the lack of War's defense bonuses is noticable but again, if your with a decent party, you shouldn't be taking to many hits.

The Wyvern. "This sucks at high levels." "It doesn't suck at high levels." i'm not getting into that... the Wyvern has breath attack during WS as well as Cure breath during spell casting. (I have not seen the Heal breath that mages get when using WS so i'm pretty sure it's not available.)

Little hint I found out while playing with bad parties: Most of the time, if the party needs to run, escape, whatever, usually the Pld or tank stays to buy time, but Drg/Drk can do this much better. You can take the hate, then use "poison" to activate the cure breath and cure yourself, to hold off dying while the party runs. Another trick I've learned (which is possible with any sub) is that you can disenguage real fast and use Super Jump, this will make the mob attack your Wyvern, giving you time to run a ways and sneak/invis (I always have powder and oil on me) or to just run, your Wyvern will keep the monster off you long enough to escape.

As for the main debate of Drg/Drk Souleater's effectiveness, I'm not that high yet. But I figured I'd give my thoughts on Drg/Drk since i've played it for 54 levels.

[Carbon]

Super Jump cooldown time = Soul Eater cooldown time

That means pretty much you'll always have super jump ready to use when you activate soul eater.

[Crisis]

Yeah, Carbon's right, I ment to mention this but it must have slipped my mind. Kinda makes the arguement of "You can only super jump hate away once every 5 minutes" that i've seen around pointless...

[Ookima]

WOW

Wow, this is great info, I am looking forward to hear your report when you hit 60, by then you should get souleater and the 2nd physical attk bonus.

BTW, how is your accuracy with DRK sub? Counting in penta and all...

[Reaperx90]

Thanks for the info everyone! Namely Crisis I really didn't think having DRK as sub job before level 60 would be that great, but it looks like it's a fairly viable option from your post. A few questions though...does the Wyvern use heal breath on every spell you cast??? I have been under the impression that it only "breathes" during weapon skill execution.

As for the higher damage output comment...could you specify how signifigant a gap there is between you and a DRG/WAR? Being that that is one of a DRG's primary concerns, I'd think it would be a pretty desirable trait to be able to do more dps.

Umm....I think that's all I can come up with for now Thanks for the input you've given, and hurry to level 60 so you can test out your Soul Eatin', Super Jumpin' DRG!

(note: Sorry about the cooldown timer messups...I coulda swore Super Jump's timer was 10 minutes and Soul Eater's was 6...live and learn, right?)

[Crisis]

Ookima:

Actualy, even being elvaan, i find myself more accurate then normal with the Drk sub. I have no proof or evidence as to why it's so, but I do find myself hitting a bit more. It's been noticed not only by myself but people i've partied with, as well as another person on these forums who said they hit mroe too. (Don't remember there name off hand) Whether it's the Drk sub or me having a Sniper Ring while others dont, i'm not sure.

Penta still varies vs certain mobs. Last night for example, fighting IT Crabs Penta will usually hit 3 or 4, sometimes all 5 but not to often. I did notice that at 53, i was hitting the crabs for 1 maybe 2 hits Penta most times, after I hit 54 I was getting 4-5 most times. So i'm figuring if they're the really higher IT mobs your still gonna have problems then if there just the IT border VT mobs, even though it coulda just been Polearm is shitty against crabs... but anyway, as to Drk making Penta more accurate i'd have to say not by much. You might land 1 or 2 more hits here and there but i'm gonna go with it's not a constent 100% better accuracy, just a tad bit better at times.

Hope at least some of that rambling helped...



Reaperx90:

You posted as i was posting so I edited my original post. The dmage varience from Drg/Drk over Drg/War was in the general range of 25-35, sometimes 15-25. It's not a big difference if thats how I made it seem, but there is a good 20+ points difference. With War's double attack trait, depending on how often it goes off the two subs might break even, or Drk might go a little above since it's 20+ damage is consistent more or less where as Double Attack is random. But don't quote me on this as i've not relly had the opertunity to really watch and take note of the difference of the random Double Attack towards the 20+ extra damage.

As for the cure breath, at the moment I have Cure Breath III havn't really had time when using it to guage it's recovery level... as i'm usually running form my life... lol. Rough estimate it cures about 200+ but don't quote me on how much "+". Once your life is low (usually red or just above red) any spell you cast will cause the Wyvern to use the cure breath. But once your life is back high enough it wont work untill your low again, so you gotta pay attention cause it takes the wyvern a good 3-4 seconds to get the breath off. Poison is what I have macroed cause it's a fast casting time and can get it off usually without inturruption.

The breath during weapon skills is the elemental attack breath, and yes, that only happens after WS's, but the Cure breath is when a spell is cast and your in serious low life.

*Note: I think one of the AF (helm?) makes the Wyvern cure life at a little higher hp. say for example without it the wyvern will cure you only when your life is in red, with it it will cure you a little ways before you hit red. Again, i'm not sure on the actual amount (1/3 - 1/4 come to mind...) But if anyone knows the difference i'm sure they'll post.


Think I got everything this time...

[Reaperx90]

Ah ha! That's what "My Wyvern cures at 1/2 now" means! Thanks for the input!

[Carbon]

AF helm only affects the strength of the cure I believe.

Mage sub will give you heal breath at 50% HP (orange).

DRK or PLD sub will give you heal breath at 25%(?) HP (red), but will give you elemental breath at other times AFAIK.