DRG damage vs. DRK damage

[Nicolaix]

Hope someone mentioned how much DRG 2h special owns DRK's?

[imac2much]

Good points all around.

Nicol, while I admit that DRKs do get somewhat shafted by their 2hr, DRG's 2hr doesn't have that 'bust out in emergency' factor. If you are mobbed or fighting too hard of an enemy and the link just isn't falling asleep, sometimes it's necessary for people to use their 2hr. DRK's can actually be useful to an extent... by stacking Blood Weapon with Soul Eater and other buffs, you basically negate the HP loss caused by SE. DRG just doesn't have anything like that; plus, we all know how useless DRG's wyvern is against gobs.. they'll die within a few bomb tosses (they do 150-350 damage to our party at just level 43). If the party decides to wait for the wyvern to heal, the exp will start slowing down as well.

Anyway, from what I've seen, I agree that DRK has the potential to do more damage than DRG. However, a good DRK will not bust out with all those buffs most of the time: keeping hate on the tank is not just the PLD's job. The DRK has to moderate his damage and hate carefully. Keep in mind that all of DRK's buffs (last resort, soul eater, etc) incur a ton of hate, and they have no way to reduce it. DRG does comparable damage but without using an active skill to increase hate. In fact, at level 50, they get super jump as someone else mentioned.

I think the only DRK that could go all out as much as they want would be a DRK/THF at level 60+. Trick+Guillotine should put enough hate on the tank that the monster won't care about all the other buffs. I can't speak of this stuff yet because I am not that high level ^^ But it sure sounds nice on paper.

Anyway, this just brings me to the same conclusion that I posted on the very first page... DRK has the potential to do more damage, but DRG can pour the damage on more freely.

[fuz]

Dragoons are constantly playing at their limit, unlike a dark which has loads of reserve power. When needed, a dark can summon its powers and pile on the damage in huge chunks, even if it means risking death--at least they have that option. As a dragoon I always feel like i'm playing catch-up... and without my wyvern to help, i feel no more useful than a war with a spear. Not to mention the spear's uselessness on skeletons, and the ease of which the wyvern dies... It seems the only saving grace is better renkei compatability.

Seeing that we rank behind dark in str, dex, armor, attack bonuses, not to mention the limited use of jumps... I wonder if dragoon is actually usefull enough to keep as my main job. Looking at the players on my server at lvl 1-50, there are equal amounts of both drg and drk, but at lvl 51-75 there are 2drk for every 1drg. Maybe there is something lacking in dragoon for all the high leveled players to prefer drk. :confused:

[Xyse]

so what r dragoons better at then dark knights?

[Malefas]

so what r dragoons better at then dark knights?

Well... it was all posted up there if you read through it all, but here it is again:

1. Able to play at their limit more freely because of Super Jump.

2. Higher Accuracy

3. Wyvern + Jump make for extra attacks, which diminish later on in the game in terms of usefulness, besides Super Jump of course.

4. This one is speculation, but I believe that Polearms have more skillchain options than scythe's do.

5. Getting Penta Thrust at level 49, instead of level 60 for Guillotine for DRK.

Feel free to add anything, but I think that covers the main points.

[Xyse]

yea and sren't dragoons invincilbe in super jump as for the other jumps how vuneralble r they to attacks during this

[Malefas]

The other jumps are an instant jump attack, basically, all happens within the span of 1 second or less.

This means that if an enemy is going to attack you, it is still going to hit you. Jump and High Jump are just that, attacks. They really do nothing but damage.

Super Jump is the only jump ability that can shed hate/hide the DRG from battle so it doesn't get touched for a few seconds, to my understanding.

[SAVAGE]

If a DRG uses lances instead of spears WHICH THEY SHOULD, you should be able to keep up with us DRKS. THAT IS UNTIL we ues our abilitys, Souleater+Last resort is meant to rip a monster a new one, thats what a DRK is for.

[Varo]

You better hope that stacking soul eater and last resort DOES indeed rip the monster a new one or else it will be the monster that rips YOU a new one. I think this is one of the main reasons why DRG's are preffered. Hate management.

[MAK]

you dont stack last resort with darkness that just a waste...to much hate and last resort is stacked with berserk best unless you know your going to rip it off then you dont stack it.

[Lartfor]

Originally posted by SAVAGE
If a DRG uses lances instead of spears WHICH THEY SHOULD, you should be able to keep up with us DRKS. THAT IS UNTIL we ues our abilitys, Souleater+Last resort is meant to rip a monster a new one, thats what a DRK is for.

Ignoring DPS?, many of the faster spears have a much greater dps than the lances... A big hit means nothing, dps is all that matters...

[imac2much]

A big hit means a lot, ironically. Higher delay weapons give back more TP. DRG's bread and butter is Pentathrust, which gives back 5 hits worth of TP. Having a slightly slower weapon with slightly stronger attack not only makes your PT stronger (esp if all 5 hits connect), but also gives a greater TP return, letting you use another PT with maybe 1 less extra swing than someone using a spear.

[fuz]

Until you can make use of penta at lvl 49, the lower delay spears are perfectly fine imo. When you do get penta, the high damage, high delay spears give more TP (12x5=60 vs. 10x5=50, not counting if you miss :p) and the higher damage equals more damage done in the WS. Also jumps will do more damage, and return more TP.

The only thing a dragoon lives for post lvl 49 is either Penta, or thf in renkei. Best to optimize yourself for that role as it's the only thing we can use to stay even in dps with a drk. Your regular hits + jumps are there simply to get more TP back so you can WS again and again.

Until you are capable of doing this, I see no reason to choose one over the other.

[macil2]

and...

Doesn't the armor that is only available to war/drk/pld and sometimes sam/nin kind of make Drg pointless?

Seriously I was looking at stats on every piece of armor at AH and I am seriously considering making a Samurai or Dark Knight now instead of Dragoon.

There is armor that gives +10 atk +10acc +5Str +5 Dex on just the Chest. The heavier version only available to drk/war/pal has -10 evasion - which should not be a problem for a Dark if you are not tanking. The version available to sam/nin/bst has same bonus but has -20 evasion and -5 agil, same thing though, if you are trying to deal damage that is perfect.

Considering that I see people paying like 50k(well a very high amount atleast) for a +3 dex ring I think the HUGE bonuses on this armor would make the difference. That was just the chest I bet the legs/helm/gloves/boots have nice stats too.

Dragoon gets Accuracy+ at lvl 30? Big whoopdidoo -- I bet the Acc/Dex bonuses from that plate armor would make a Dark Knight or Samurai have much better accuracy. The Str and Attack bonuses on top of the already superior Drk Str/Atk would just make the Dragoon seem like a wuss.

Then there is JSE armor. I have not seen the stats for Dark Knight JSE so maybe it appears to suck too. (I say appears because I am noob and I do not know for sure) The Dragoon gives crappy bonuses to Reduce Damage from Breath Attacks....LOL ROOFLES WTF HAHAHA....that must be a joke. Why would anyone give up the AF armor to get reduced breath attack damage?

It seems odd to me because I was told that JSE is supposed to be the Dragoons best armor, since it is lvl 68-70 or so. Why give up better stats, better ability enhancements on the AF for that POS armor? AF does enhance Jump, Wyvern HP and accuracy, and wyvern breath does it not?

Maybe I am wrong about all of this. I hope I am. I admit I am a noob with a low level warrior and I do not know anything about high end game. If anyone wants to correct me then please do, but make sure you explain why. This is just what I see coming into the game and trying to decide what advanced job I want to play.

[macil2]

Ok sorry about making another post but I want to clarify why I mentioned Drg passive Accuracy Up specifically.

It is clear that Dragoon and Dark Knights are designed to be offensive melee. It is also clear because of the passive Atk Ups and Active abilities that Dark Knights are meant to do the most raw melee damage. Dragoons should have some advantage right? Besides jumping away hate at 50? The Acc Up bonus indicated that Dragoon is a more precise warrior, and accuracy should be an advantage of the Dragoon.

All of the +Dex and +Acc from the plate armor probably does a lot more for accuracy than a single, passive Acc Up bonus. It does not seem like a big deal because Acc is a problem for all melee but imagine if every melee Job but Drk could wear armor that gave the best Atk bonuses. That would seem kind of strange would it not? It is similar with Dragoon because every melee job besides Drg can wear armor that gives good stat bonuses, I have not seen any armor that can compete Stat wise - not DEF wise - that dragoons can wear.

It is not that I think Dragoons should have acess to heavier armor, on the contrary I think it is good that they can only use lighter armor. They are offensive melee, not defensive tanks. What I do not like that Better Defense(which is what armor is - defense) also means better offense at the same time.