DRG damage vs. DRK damage

[Pontiusont]

re..

I play a 37 Dragoon/Warrior.

All of the groups ive been in since level 30, I have never been out damaged by a DRK. Some Dark Knights Ive been with, we have done about the same dmg. Other ones I have outdamaged by a lot. I've even grouped with another Dragoon my same lvl, and have outdamaged them by lots. A big part is your gear, what you are fighting, and what lvl you are. If they are 1 lvl higher than you, they will have an easier time hitting the monster.

And why compare defense? who cares if they can wear plate armor. Neither classes will be tanking. Go for armor that adds stats.

At lvl 30, you can wear:

Centurions body = Defense 23, Vit +1
Mercenary Captain body = Defense 20, Dex +1, Agi +1

The Mercenary Captain Helm is also better than the Centurion piece, but so many Dragoons I see are wearing Centurion. Why bother with defense? I can tell you I will be wearing MC armor for a while, as the next piece that gives you a stat bonus isnt for a while. All there really is for a while now after lvl 30 is armor that adds a bit more defense.

[Ayako]

Why would anyone want the JSE? Because it's STYLISH! Duh........

ANyway, the majority of the other armour you are speaking of is HNM item armour that will cost you upwards of 3 million gil. Start saving now.

(EDIT)
The JSE has much better defense than AF, so just use equip change macros.

/p Jump mode!
/equip feet Draken Greaves
/ja Jump
/wait 5
/equip feet Dragon greaves

and so on, it's effective.

[shaunathan]

wow

this has been one intresting topic. it went on and off topic and even got down to petty bickering...

0_o omoshiroi...

[Malefas]

And why compare defense? who cares if they can wear plate armor. Neither classes will be tanking. Go for armor that adds stats.

We just stated that plate mail/heavy armor has better stats than light-medium armor for melee purposes...

DEF doesn't really matter, but if the DRK is getting better DEF and better stats from his armor, then yes, we can compare Heavy armor being much better than Medium-Light armor.

Hauberk is a good example of how DRGs really lose out in the armor.

[Fadedsoul]

only skimmed through the thread so If i'm wrong don't shoot me, shoot ayako or Sanguine :sweat:

erm.. why the heck is defense a concern of yours? Back in the 30's i ran around in beetle armor.. But you can be darn sure I had the best weapons, dex and accuracy equipment possible. your an ATTACKER. A - TACK - UR
you attack. You don't defend / tank. You should rejoice in your dragoon ability to shake agro, instead of crying you can't buy heavy armor.

JSE is different. I plan on buying JSE after camping argus and getting extremely lucky. But aside from AF and JSE... there is no other armor that should be your "must have" goal over weapons. DRK can wear the "good" armor, but they almsot have to, no way to lose thier hate. Even with that good armor they tank like wet dandylions in a hurricane.

[Saurian]

at the end of the game dark knights and dragoons do about equal melee damage, same with monks. Drk's will hit, roughly on average for 150ish, DRG's 120-130ish. But if you throw in the wyvern and jumps, normal melee dmg drk=drg.

Ws's, guillo maybe be a little more powerful than penta, but if its not powered up, penta is about equal to guillo.

But when a dark knight uses souleater, this is where you see all the big number hits. I.E. the 1000+point guillo's, and the 250dmg normal hits. But you must consider than not only does souleater take 10% of a drk's health with each hit, it causes lots of agro. On top of that, it lasts 1 minutes, with a refresh of 6. So for one minute, DRK's will do more damage (if they actually LEAVE souleater up), and for the other 5, they will do equal damage to Dragoons (with wyvern up), but dragoons also get to drop agro w/ super jump.

Seems pretty balanced to me?

p.s. Gear wise yes, dark knights have MUCH better selection than dragoons, Thick armor+1, hauberk+1, 98dmg scythe....i digress.

[macil2]

~~~~~~only skimmed through the thread so If i'm wrong don't shoot me, shoot ayako or Sanguine

erm.. why the heck is defense a concern of yours? Back in the 30's i ran around in beetle armor.. But you can be darn sure I had the best weapons, dex and accuracy equipment possible. your an ATTACKER. A - TACK - UR
you attack. You don't defend / tank. You should rejoice in your dragoon ability to shake agro, instead of crying you can't buy heavy armor.

JSE is different. I plan on buying JSE after camping argus and getting extremely lucky. But aside from AF and JSE... there is no other armor that should be your "must have" goal over weapons. DRK can wear the "good" armor, but they almsot have to, no way to lose thier hate. Even with that good armor they tank like wet dandylions in a hurricane.~~~~~~~~~~``

Well you did not do a very good job skimming. The whole point about the better armor IS NOT DEFENSE. What we are saying is HEAVY ARMOR ========OFFENSE. This is because HEAVY ARMOR get GOOD STATS and LIGHT armor gets CRAPPY STATS.

Both are offensive classes, but because one can wear good armor, his offense as well as defense is much better.

If there was high level armor with crap for defense that had some nice stat increases on it then no one would be complaining. I will repeat again heavy armor not only gives better defense, it gives much better offense at the same time.

Show me some scale armor with +10 atc +5 str +10 acc and +5 dex with a bunch of negative effects, no matter what lvl and how much DEF it has, and I will shut up. The whole point is not the defense or the armor, it is the Stat bonuses that are not found in any other equipment besides heavy armor.

[Fadedsoul]

Stop whining.

All armor has terrible attacking stats until 45, when you get ( AND DRAGOON CAN WEAR) Brigadines. Dex, Str + armor. Name ONE set of armor that adds attack benifical stats that war/drk/pld can wear and we can't... Centurion? NO thats Vit.... Mithril..? NO, Iron Musketeer..? NO. There are no armors ANYONE can wear that add attack benifical stats, Un including Leaping Lizzy Boots or VE hairpin.

Find me some armor below level 60 (when you should have you dang AF) that adds attack benifical stats we can't wear.. you can't? thought so.

[Fadedsoul]

Originally posted by Saurian
at the end of the game dark knights and dragoons do about equal melee damage, same with monks. Drk's will hit, roughly on average for 150ish, DRG's 120-130ish. But if you throw in the wyvern and jumps, normal melee dmg drk=drg.

Ws's, guillo maybe be a little more powerful than penta, but if its not powered up, penta is about equal to guillo.

But when a dark knight uses souleater, this is where you see all the big number hits. I.E. the 1000+point guillo's, and the 250dmg normal hits. But you must consider than not only does souleater take 10% of a drk's health with each hit, it causes lots of agro. On top of that, it lasts 1 minutes, with a refresh of 6. So for one minute, DRK's will do more damage (if they actually LEAVE souleater up), and for the other 5, they will do equal damage to Dragoons (with wyvern up), but dragoons also get to drop agro w/ super jump.

Seems pretty balanced to me?

p.s. Gear wise yes, dark knights have MUCH better selection than dragoons, Thick armor+1, hauberk+1, 98dmg scythe....i digress.

Not going to disagree, but a drk doing GUilotine more than once a fight is suicide, any dragoon can penta 3 to 5 times a fight and only really use high jump once if your wise with it. drk have to moderate what they do way to much because if they get hate they can't shake it (drk/thf is an exception, but they have to wait for trick to pop. /snoze )

But your right, in the end it all does kind of even out.

[Malefas]

All armor has terrible attacking stats until 45, when you get ( AND DRAGOON CAN WEAR) Brigadines. Dex, Str + armor. Name ONE set of armor that adds attack benifical stats that war/drk/pld can wear and we can't... Centurion? NO thats Vit.... Mithril..? NO, Iron Musketeer..? NO. There are no armors ANYONE can wear that add attack benifical stats, Un including Leaping Lizzy Boots or VE hairpin.

Find me some armor below level 60 (when you should have you dang AF) that adds attack benifical stats we can't wear.. you can't? thought so.

You know, that comment was quite ignorant.

Besides, there are a number of armors up and above 60 as well where DRG gets screwed on (and you can't hide behind your AF), let me show you a list I gathered from the AH. And don't say above 60 doesn't matter, because it does:

Royal Knight's Chainmail
DEF 43, STR +2, DEX +2, Attack +3
Level 55 WAR/PLD/DRK/BST/SAM/NIN

Haubergon
DEF 45, STR +5, DEX +5, AGI-5, Accuracy +10, Attack +10, Evasion -20
Level 59 WAR/PLD/DRK/BST/SAM/NIN

+1 stats are:

STR +6, DEX+6, AGI-5, Accuracy +12, Attack +12, Evasion-20.

Hauberk
DEF 47, STR +5, DEX +5, Accuracy +10, Attack +10, Evasion - 10
Level 69 WAR/DRK/BST

+1 stats are:

DEF 48, STR +6, DEX +6, Accuracy +12, Attack +12, Evasion - 10

Tiger Jerkin
DEF 41, Fire -5, Ice +5, Attack +5
Level 65 WAR/RDM/THF/PLD/DRK/BST/BRD/SAM/NIN/DRG

Scorpion Harness
DEF = ?? (sorry forgot the value O_O),HP +15, Ice - 20, Water +15, Dark +15, Accuracy +10, Evasion +10
Level 57 WAR/MNK/RDM/THF/PLD/DRK/BST/BRD/SAM/NIN/DRG

Haven't seen any in the AH for a longgg time... and it sells for roughly 9-10 million gil.

Brigandine
DEF 32, HP+10, DEX + 2, VIT +2
Level 45 WAR/RDM/THF/PLD/DRK/BST/BRD/RNG/SAM/NIN/DRG

+1 stats are: (for the low price of 700k - 1 million gil)

DEF 33, STR +1, DEX +3, VIT +3, AGI +1, MND +1, CHR +1

Byrnie (not the greatest, but thrown in for comparison)
DEF 46, HP +25, STR +3, DEX -3, VIt +3, AGI -3, INT -3, CHR -3, Attack +20
Level 60 WAR/PLD/DRK/BST/SAM/NIN

+1 stats are:

DEF 47, HP +30, STR +5, DEX -3, VIT +5, AGI -3, INT -3, MND -3, CHR -3, Attack +25.

Carapace Breastplate
DEF 44, Water +19
Latent Effect: Attack +12 DEF +44

Level 61 WAR/MNK/RDM/THF/DRK/BST/BRD/RNG/SAM/DRG

Your welcome to find some uber jerkins/scale mail that DRGs can wear late game to compare to some of this stuff posted above, but I could barely find any besides the Scorpion Harness/Tiger Jerkin that were any good for attacking purposes. Add to the list if you can find anything else.

[Ayako]

Dusk Jerkin
Lvl 72 Def 50 HP +40 Accuracy +2 Auto Regen, and some sort of something down that I can't read.
DRG and DRK both can wear it. This is the armour to get, however tf you can. No price listed in Ragnarok AH, so only 1 exists, I reckon.

Dragon Mail vs. Demon Harness

Dragon Mail
Def. 47 HP+12, All Elemental Def. +10, Breath Damage -9%

Demon Harness
D41 Atk+6, Dodge +6, Dark Magic Skill +5, 15HP->15MP

Neither are all that great, but the DRK one is purple and black and kinda ugly, while DRG one is hella stylish. DRG one also easier to get.

[macil2]

The demon set is clearly much better. HP is not that important to an offensive melee and breath damage reduction is crap.

Atk +6 very nice, Dodge skill is O.K. and they get dark skill up? Add up stats from the whole set of Dragon armor to whole set of Demon armor and compare them.

[Saurian]

Originally posted by Fadedsoul



Not going to disagree, but a drk doing GUilotine more than once a fight is suicide, any dragoon can penta 3 to 5 times a fight and only really use high jump once if your wise with it. drk have to moderate what they do way to much because if they get hate they can't shake it (drk/thf is an exception, but they have to wait for trick to pop. /snoze )

But your right, in the end it all does kind of even out.

yah of course a DRK's who just does Guillo everytime it pops is going to get some bad agro, but same w/ a dragoon who spams penta. Granted everytime Super jump pops they can go all out then jump the agro off, but for the times when jump isint up, dragoons must also tone down their damage.

[imac2much]

That's true, but also realize that DRK will inherently get more hate than DRG even if they did exactly equal damage. Their JA's incur much hate, like Last Resort, Souleater, etc. DRG do not have to use these types of hate-producing abilities. In addition, a portion of the total DRG damage comes from the wyvern, which has a separate hate list (you can try soloing, then doing a super jump, the monster will redirect its attacks on the wyvern).

So basically, even before comparing damage, DRK will always get more hate than a DRG, and must therefore hold back more than a DRG does.

[Niexist]

off topic:

This is why I like the DRG/DRK combination. You would have all those massive hate producing moves, and then half a second later, super jump it is a good combination even if you exclude spells altogether, or at least one worth considering.