Who Cares?!

[Awntawn]

A simple fact is, healing requires a lot more MP than a black mage casting spells at a desirable pace. This along with the fact that black mages have more MP than white mages. You know you have a crappy black mage when he doesn't heal; your white mage will be out of MP after the first 2 fights and your black mage will be near full.

Also, mass nuking isn't a good thing. I can tell you now if all you do as a black mage is mass nuke, your party will eventually get fed up with you and just let you die because you got too much hate and wasted MP, wasting your PT's time. It's OK to have fun, but don't let it get in the way of other people having fun. Personally, I would never invite a BLM/SMN. If you were a RDM, WHM, or BRD, it's OK to be that cocky. BLM, on the other hand, is a luxury (and at times even a hindrance) not a necessity. People won't hesitate to skip over you.

Black mage is not an easy job to play. You can't nuke too much or else you waste MP and get hate and slow down your party. You can't just heal either; once saw a BLM who though she was a WHM... There's a thin balance in between that you have to discover, and once you find it, your parties will really appreciate you. I personally don't know how the balance works, I just know that some black mages make you wanna kill them axes and rape their corpses with blunt sticks, while others make you just go "daaaaaamn he's good."

[Harlequin]

I agree BLM/Sum is a poor group supporter at this time. I have to disagree with the sentiment that choosing not to be able to heal would require you to blame yourself for the party being wiped out.
The party should be aware of the fact that as a Blm/Sum your sole job in the groups hierachy is to provide fire support and an escape from high lvl areas/Dungeons. Currently as the game stands White Mage just gives to many perks to not be a black Mage's subjob of choice. However as soon as the lvl Cap hits 90 Red mage will be the guaranteed subjob of choice for all black and White mages so this arguement is moot This arguement can also be rendered in the opposing direction when more summons that can provide exellent group benefits become available for use.

I can say this the best group I've been in so far had no whitemages and no non fighter subjobs.
3 thieves and 3 Blackmages that when working in harmony pretty much obliterated the opposition.

[Awntawn]

Nonono I think I know why so many people are getting misconceptions.

It's not the fear of getting wiped out. If you leave all of the healing to the white mage, the white mage's MP will run out really fast. You will still be able to kill things, but it will take longer because once the white mage's MP is out, you gotta stop and heal up MP. It's not that you won't survive, but you will kill much slower, gain exp much slower, and everyone including yourself will be unhappy.

[Rainfallen]

From all these readings it sounds like that same old crap from every other MMORPG. People want you to be the friggin best with no exceptions. So what if someone wants to be a BLM/SMN... that means they don't want to be a downtime reducing healer they want to be a damage dealer.

Here's a thought learn to play with other jobs rather than the cookie cutter selections (ie. PLD/WAR, DRG/THF, SMN/WHT) and you might actually be a better person/party member because of it. I don't think that Square introduced the two job system just for people to be the same damn things. Yes some systems allow for more specific combinations to work together better but all that means is your just like everyone else.

It's called ADAPTATION

[Asharu]

You guys are getting off topic here. The point of this thread is to encourage players to go for whatever main jobs and sub jobs they want. Sure, some may not work very well together, but the whole experience is to try something and learn from it, and hopefully have fun in the process.

The fun factor will vary depending on the person, but all the advice given in this thead shoudn't be ignored either. I keep hearing comments about the Blm/Smn combo, and as much as people think that's a cool combination, it will ultimately not be as "fun" as you think it is because the Summoner job does not work well at half its level (most advanced jobs don't make good subs anyway). That doesn't mean you don't have to try it; by all means go for it. That's how you'll learn in the long run, even though you may regret it at that point

[TeK-DeLorean™]

Kirashi! /salute

There are different types of people who play this game. You have power levellers and you have happy go lucky players. When most people first pick up the game they will experiment, not knowing much. They will make the Noob mistakes, etc.. But as this game is alot about PT interaction, Hardcore players will not want someone to slow the PT down, after a few weeks of "fun" and happy go lucky playing, people will want to LEVEL and accomplish things as fast as they can. Who wants to spend a month in Qufim getting from 20-30 when they can spend a week or so? I sure as hell don't. This is where the clashing comes in. Kirashi (Kirara) is an experienced player, so he knows the ins and outs of the game, he knows what job combos work more efficiently than others. Sure WAR/WHM is great for soloing.. but what will you be able to contribute to a PT? low MP and half of the hate management of a WAR/THF for example. almost any combo works better in a PT than a WAR/MAGE combo. and this is only one example. Sure there will be people willing to level with you if your job isn't the "BEST" combo or the one it "Should" be, but sub jobs DO make a big difference, especially as u get higher levelled, and you will find people less likely to choose certain job combos in a PT over others. Of course you can create your own PT, and a person like you prolly wouldn't want to PT with "Hardcore players" because they WILL be picky over subjobs and they WILL say.. "hey why don't you sub this or that"?

Bottom line, there are no RULES about sub jobs, but there are def. some that people recognize as better combos than others, and you will come across these people as you play the game. IMO: Do what makes you happy.. Just understand where gamers like Kirara are coming from, they have experienced the "happy go lucky" side of the game and they want to be as efficient as possible. This game gets hardcore at higher levels, so after experimenting for a bit, you will probably find yourself conforming to the normal more "accepted" job combos. BTW, alot of high levelled players do have "Wacky" job combos they use once inna while just for fun, but when you are PTing, it's basically known that you have to "take one for the team" and sub whats more efficient.

[FFXITsukasa]

I think I understand what you are saying Awntawn. But... I agree with Ragura. You play whatever role your jon is in your party. If you are a Black Mage/Summoner it isyour job to use your black magic to give additional damage and use your summons to do whatever they can, right? Wether it be taking damage for a wounded tank or healing and support spells. I can understand a group may want a Black Mage/White Mage because effectivly its a healer with lots of mana and the ability to give some much needed extra damage. But I feel it is more important to be a job you like rather than be a job combination that is over used or change your jobs to fit in with a party easier. Don't get me wrong it is smart to be a healer with lots of mp but I like summoning better. Therefore I say stray from the beaten path and try something new! (Had to put something in here that was on topic.)

[dodger1v]

Ok so as it stands now for a BLM there are only two acceptable subjobs for a BLM.

1. BLM/WHM being the best cause you can both heal and attack.
50/25 you will have cures, status cures, magic def. up, auto hp-regen.

2. BLM/RDM being second best because you have curative abilities and get some great passive abilities for a BLM. The only difference between one and two is passive abilities and the higher level whm spells which you will eventually be able to get.

I have a few questions about this. One is how much does fast cast speed up casting? How much do the Magic Attack UP help? If they do help alot why wouldn't RDM be the sub-job of choice for BLM? Why are BLMs seemingly not wanted at the higher levels 50 and above?

Also why wouldn't the BLM just be expected to attack? At higher levels a WHM and a BRD are needed in a good party anyway. Shouldn't BRD have a WHM Sub. If that is the case why isn't the BLM just left to attack. Is their elemental magic to weak? Do they create to much hate with ancient magic?

Lastly could some one please tell me why having a SMN as a sub for BLM be so bad. You can use the status effect spells that your summon has like Garuda's Blink.

This may be off topic but the answers to these questions may help out the aspiring BLMs.

[Nabiki]

"To get far, you need to group (or be a beastmaster). And groups, when they are out leveling, they want to level as fast as possible. This mean that they want the best team they can get."


You should not lump all people into this category. I do not care about the best team, or how fast I can level, and I'm sure many people out there feel the same way I do. Friends, family, and guild, are more important to me. I hope the social aspect of the game is not replaced with snobby people only looking for the best pt.

[FFXITsukasa]

I dont understand why Black Mages wouldn't be wanted at a higher level. I mean they get even stronger spells then right?! And why wouldn't you want to have them always attacking? I mean at higher levels you are fighting harder enemies and that extra damage is wanted if not needed to dispose of the foe quickly. And why wouldn't Summoner be a good job?! You get some nice magic boosts plus its just cool. Well thats my opinion.

[MassaJJ]

If you get mad at people playing this game or at the game itself you have huge issues.. If you think your so good that you can tell other classes how to play their game that they pay for then you need someone to kick you in the mouth.....

[FFXITsukasa]

Whats with the double posts that happens to me all the time! Anyway last night I was checking out the Wind Camera at Playonline and that in itself was great. Well no matter what I am being a Black Mage/ Summoner for my friends and my group! I will protect my friends just watch.

[Reneir]

I'm with you, Tsukasa! BLM/DRK, an i don't care what anybody says.... and i'll probably work on SMN too now, just to annoy the cookie-cutter people! And anybody who doubts my power... well once PvP is active, come find me an we'll discuss your crass insults and misguided opinions... heck, i'm all for a mass melee... cookie-cutter vs. people who actually got creative with thier charicter...

That always works, doesn't it? if the argument doesn't get resolved... WAR ... meh heh heh

Of course, until/if direct PvP is active... all we can do is argue about it... too bad huh?

[Arguile]

People, you need to realize 1 thing. You will have to be one of the following classes: Warrior, black mage, white mage, thief, Red mage, monk. These are your starting classes. Whatever you sub as, you'll always have one of these classes.

With that being said, some people want to make there initial class the strongest it can be. You want to be a black mage right? You want to deal the mad damage right? You don't give a crap about "healing" people as a backup mage or doing anything else other then casting offensive spells right?

Good, then your best choice is Summoner. Not Blm/whm. But Black Mage/Summoner. With summoner you will get insane amounts of MP. Use that MP to be an offensive juggernaut with your black mage spells.

People are saying that a Blm/whm is what black mages should play. Let me tell you something, when your a level 50 blm and a lvl 25 whm, in a party fighting lvl 55+ monsters, your little lvl 25 whm spells are NOT going to make a lick of difference. They'll buy you 1 or 2 rounds, if that.

Your sub class should be something that COMPLIMENTS your main class. Not "allow you to do other things to help the party". No, you help the party by being the best class you can be. Main class that is. Every party should have a black mage or two. One that knows how to use his spells properly. And i want that black mage to have enough mp to keep doing this without insane amounts of down time. If he's a Black Mage and Sub job summoner, he's going to have this MP as long as he doesn't summon anything.

Take a sub class that will compliment your main class. Black Mage Summoner's would have the MOST mp out of any other combination. This is what i wanted and played. I don't care about being a 'backup' healer.

Play what you like, but be advised that there are "bad" combinations. If your main class is black mage and your sub is dark knight....it's just wrong. Find things you would have fun playing but keep in mind your sub class is only that, a sub class. A class that's there to compliment your main class, not be used by itself.

If you're like me and like playing a Black Mage/Summoner, then level them up. Some Day's you might want to play a black mage, and with summoner as your sub job you'll have plenty of mp to be a black mage. Just dont summon anything.

Other days you'll want to play a Summoner. Don't worry, they'll fix summoners. And if you want to play a summoner somedays, play one. With black mage as your sub class you'll have lot's of mp and mp regen to keep your summon beasty out for a long time. Just don't bother casting any black mage spells, since you'll only be half level and your spells will mostly be resisted.

In conclusion, Black Mage/Summoner is a combo that works very very well as long as you play as a Black Mage. Summoner/Black Mage works very very well, as long as you only play as a summoner and leave the blm spells alone. You get the idea.

[MatterTeleporta]

validation

After reading this entire debate so far, I have an opinion as well.

One thing I must point out is that mainly the only person who has extensive playing experiance is Kirara (‚·‚²‚¢‚«‚ç‚ç?I?j Now honestly seeing from the factors that Kirara is a level 60 Black Mage(?•–‚–@?j and a level 30 White Mage (”’–‚–@?j as well as a level 11 Summoner (?¢Š«?j I do believe that he has seen a lot so far in his Virtual Life. With so much accomplishment he has probably spoken to people who have experianced these job combinations and has seen first-hand what has worked and what has not worked.

~“ú–{?l‘S‚Ä‚Ì‚±‚Æ’m‚Á‚Ä‚¢‚é?B
*Please excuse the multitude of horrific grammar errors within the japanese text. <--- SEE?!?!? THIS IS WHAT AP CLASSES DO TO YOU!!!!!