So... Starcraft 2?

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

-Malacite, about the BC area ability - they lost it. It's still unlockable in the campaign but in multiplayer, they just have their normal attack and Yamato cannon. Worthy of note: their normal attack is bad ass with the best DPS in the game.

Aww that's bullshit... Swarms are the one thing BC's can't deal with, I was so stoked when they introduced that ability on the old SC2 site... damn it.

[Caspian]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

If anyone is interested.
Curse just released something called SC2replayed.com
Apparently you can set criteria on races, maps, etc. and see how people played and won.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Had a funny game last night was a PvT (myself as T) on K-Ravine.

My early scout found the base empty of anything but a nexus and some workers so i smelled a proxy gateway or cannon rush. After scoping the dark areas of my base and finding no pylons I assumed the former. To which was confirmed when 4 Zealots hit my wall. Having only 3 marines I held off long enough to lift my 2 barracks and CC to a rock blocked expansion sight near my main. I don't know if the guy thought I had no money but he said "Just GG...." I spent the next 15 minutes amassing a huge marine maruder tank force. (when watching the replay after my initial set back I had a 2-1 army count). Using a small strike force I took out his main base (which had 2 starports and a nexus). Reducing his worker count to under 10 (at which point I had nealry 3 times the economy as well.)

Several minutes later he attacked with 4 void rays which my 30 man marine squad chewed up in seconds with Stimpack. Knowing I had an advantage but not 100% sure of where he was at yet, I built some banshees (4) and got them cloak. Having only seen void rays, zealots and stalkers I assumed he had not yet got observers. This proved true as I destroyed an expo and began killing pylons at his production facilities. Not only cutting his supply but powering off his key places (gateways).

At around the 28 minute mark I moved to the gold minerals and sent my now 60 man army all in on his base. After a short lived battle on his front step my force crushed him and moved in for the kill.

I received a message from him saying "You are trash", to which I could only reply with, "If trash just beat you what does that make you."

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Let's see what I can remember to post on...

-I actually don't like how fast-paced Starcraft is. It actually makes innovation slower than it should be because only the fastest and most capable players from a mechanical standpoint are really "allowed" to devise new strategies and such. I mean, try as I might to make use of mass reapers. I just can't. I'll need to wait 'til someone at the tip-top gives them the time of day.

Incidentally, I can see a squad of reapers being more effective in 2v2, but you still need to remember that 8 reapers is 12 marines and 400 vespene. that's huge.

-Tanks are potent, but i'm nowhere near as afraid of them as I was in brood war. Go watch BW 1v1 Protoss vs Terran. It makes you CRY. You go into battles with a plan of "I'll lose 60 food worth of units to break his 40 food army, forcing him to retreat and save about 15 food worth." It's nuts.

In SC2, they feel like a obstacle; not a Hoover Dam.

-Malacite, about the BC area ability - they lost it. It's still unlockable in the campaign but in multiplayer, they just have their normal attack and Yamato cannon. Worthy of note: their normal attack is bad ass with the best DPS in the game.

-Also, Mal, you're right about Roaches. I see pro level games where a large squad of roaches is running away from an engagement (sayy, against a huge squad of siege tanks on high ground). They run away, taking fire the whole time and end up losing over a 3rd of their units. And I can't help but think "You could have just hit U and lost maybe 3 of your 30 roaches." Since Roaches move just as fast underground as above ground (with some exceptions), you have just as good of a chance to escape if he scans you. But hey! Each scan costs Terran 270 minerals! So that's its own gain.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Can't take the constant split decisions?

Nah, that's not it. It just the way things swarm on the screen and how many there are. I find it unsettling for some reason. Same thing with Dynasty Warriors, Pikmin and so on.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

The AI seems pretty solid to me.

Was watching a game of TheLittleOne vs Skelow or something like that... those tanks were shooting pretty damn fast if you ask me. And wow Vikings are awesome!

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Unfortunately, the unit AI in this game is terrible. Some commands just aren't followed 100%. I've notice that, while attacking buildings, some will attack while others will run off and do something else. It makes hitting pylons difficult when I'm trying to wrap zealots or zergling around the entire thing. Units will also most likely not walk directly up to siege tanks, even if you click there multiple times. They seem to prefer to stay in their firing range.

Mutalisks are the worst. You'll give them an action, and they'll move around a little bit or spread out, or something else that's not what you told them to do. If you're attacking other units that second lost is enough to turn the battle.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You just answered your own question. Immortals can charge clean through a line of siege tanks since they'll only take 10 damage max per shelling. Roaches & Marauders however will get wiped out.

Roaches and Marauders are the only basic units that can actually absorb the Seige tank AOE (Roaches can burrow and regenerate out of LOS while Marauders can stand up with a medivac). They also hit HARD so the seige tanks would melt quickly. You can cut a quick swath through a few tanks with a dozen of either units. The key here is to swarm around the tanks in close range so that they cannot attack you in seige mode (right click the units to a spot right next to the tank). Immortals also seem to hit decently hard against the tanks as well. Tanks are considered high damage** and high armor, which is probably the reason why they are perceived as "OP" by some players. However, in seige mode**, which is how they get their high damage, they have a very slow attack speed and thus have their own weakness that can be exploited. Tanks are best used in conjunction with either a barrier (to keep the baddies at minimum range) or other units (i.e., marauders) in front of them. Otherwise, they are pretty exposed given the right units you attack them with.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You just answered your own question. Immortals can charge clean through a line of siege tanks since they'll only take 10 damage max per shelling. Roaches & Marauders however will get wiped out.

Uh, ok? I feel like you're prompting me to ask that question again.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

How would Immortals be on the same level as Roaches and Marauders? They take only ten points of damage from all sources.

You just answered your own question. Immortals can charge clean through a line of siege tanks since they'll only take 10 damage max per shelling. Roaches & Marauders however will get wiped out.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I hate how siege tanks are the hard counter for every single other ground unit in the game. Granted, they're particularly vulnerable from attacks from the air, but so are Marauders and they're not exactly a hard counter for anything, except maybe zerglings. I was Zerg, and going hydras, and siege tanks completely ruined my attack. Granted, my opponent had a very effective set-up. The only entrance to their bases was surrounded with siege tanks on cliffs and at the back of the entrance, with an observer clearing the fog of war for them.

Somehow I missed this, so I'll try to respond.

First of all Hydralisks are light armored units. This is their tradeoff for having the ability to hit both ground and air units from a distance. They just have a bit more health than marines (it's a tradeoff for Terrans having medivacs) This means that they are susceptible to high damage and splash damage. To resolve this issue, you have tanks in front of them. Tanks are called roaches and you'd want a dozen of them to keep marauders and marines off your hydras and provide a buffer against seige tanks. Use lings with speed upgrades to soften up marauders. Roaches can destroy seige tanks in quick order and is a must for any ground offensive.

---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ----------

How would Immortals be on the same level as Roaches and Marauders? They take only ten points of damage from all sources.

Burrow is best used with Banelings. You can unburrow at just the right moment and destroy an entire army.

The burrow comment was in regards to roaches ability to "tunnel". Immortals are susceptible to en masse small units, like lings, marines and zeals.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

How would Immortals be on the same level as Roaches and Marauders? They take only ten points of damage from all sources.

Burrow is best used with Banelings. You can unburrow at just the right moment and destroy an entire army.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

One thing I've noticed in the Youtube videos of high level play is hardly anyone makes use of the Roaches' ability to move while burrowed... I'm sure there's gotta be a tonne of potential for abuse on mineral lines with that perk. Or can they only move where you have a line of sight? If so then that's pretty stupid...

It was good back when you could get 2 roaches for 1 unit of supply ... because mass burrowing makes much more sense. Since the supply cost changes, roaches are more strategic, on par with Marauders, since they do bonus damage to structures and high armor units. Remember, burrowing is the same as cloaking, so you'll be revealed with scans/observers. Roaches are also considered tanks. I think as far as ground units are concerned, Immortals, Roaches and Marauders are on par in their survivability. If you look at it in that light, Marauders will have the upper hand in sheer numbers, stimpack and their ability to slow units. With medivacs, they're a formidble and affordable offensive and defensive asset.

Vikings en masse, brood lords and phoenixes are anti-BC and because of the slow speed of the BCs, they're rendered useless besides being a "meat shield" for your combined arms. Having lots of SCVs help with the investment costs, but they're also prone to ground splash damage and can also be costly in terms of supply/resource gathering potential. However, if you back up your BCs with a couple of Thors, they can provide a potent punch through enemy lines.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I believe so, however there's a neat little trick you can use to lift units up into the air and "snipe" them with a Void Ray. It's funny as hell to run up to a Zerg base and just YOINK on the Queen lmao.


Also, IIRC, Marauders are hard counters for Armored units as they deal +10 damage to them. Zerglings will actually eat them alive if they aren't stimmed, and God help you against Banelings with hooks. I suppose it does seem silly from a variety stand point, but really, they're freaking tanks. I would certainly hope that they own most other ground units in general.


One thing I've noticed in the Youtube videos of high level play is hardly anyone makes use of the Roaches' ability to move while burrowed... I'm sure there's gotta be a tonne of potential for abuse on mineral lines with that perk. Or can they only move where you have a line of sight? If so then that's pretty stupid...

I've yet to see anyone get that Spread attack for the BC's either. I mean, I've seen some videos where BC's got shot down by focus fire from hordes of weaklings... which is precisely why Blizzard gave them that new spell isn't it? To mow down hordes? Yet no one ever uses it...

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

They are but Graviton beam is awesome. 3-4 Phoenixes are sweet, 1 picks up ground units the others blast. On full energy the can each pick up 3-4 units ( i think it is 4). So if you happen across some tanks or what not just pick them up. Even if you can't kill them they still won't act and when your army gets under you phoenixes they will be in the perfect spot to smash tanks or thors or any thing.