So... Starcraft 2?

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Just watched one of the most epic games ever... 4-part game PvZ that ended in the Zerg uy winning by sneaking in an extractor and the Protos player's base just as he took down the last of the zerg's buildings...

They had been at a stalemate for over an hour with 1 corrupter, 1 drone and 1 speedling vs 1 zealot. Neither of them had a nexus/hatchery up and barely any minerals (25 to 56 or something like that?) it was just so ridiculous...

[Taskmage]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

You know, just because you see more 2 gate and fast tech in your league and division doesn't mean that 4 gate isn't "the norm" in Malacite's sphere of play. You're assuming a lot by saying that if someone's perceptions and experiences don't match yours they're pulling it out of their ass.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

4 Gate is hardly the norm. It is popular but so is 2 gate robo, and fast tech VRAY/Carrier. Thats like saying Terran Always go Mech and Zerg always go Hydra/Roach.

4 Gate is decent but it can be quite easily destroyed by a fast marauder group (2-3) + rines. or a ling rush.

Just because you have seen a few youtube video of pros using it, doesn't mean it is popular. (See the Reaper discussion a few pages back). TBH 2gate robo seems more popular (against terran) since it allows for a faster Immortal (which is great against rauders.) An observer to scout the terran, or expanding further to Colosus to take on mass marines.

Against Zerg it is the popular choice because most Zerg fail at early agression. instead they sit back and expand, allowing the toss to get 4 gates functioning. This makes it fairly difficult to overcome. But as a Zerg v Toss you can safely scout it. If you see a cyber core go down before a second gateway chances are they are going for some type of 2 gate or a fast VRAY. If you see a second gateway drop before a Cyber than chances are you are looking at a 4 gate in which case your initial 10 or so lings will probably be able to win the game.

But if you want to talk popularity play the damn game, Ive seen more toss go with VRAY/Carrier than 4 gate. Ive seen more 2 gate Robo than 4 gate. 4 gate is far from super popular, stop trying to make thins what they are not because you have seen a couple broadcasts on HD or Husky.

Hell by that notion, Terrans popular build is fast BC cuz I saw TLO do it a few times, and Zerg seems to be mass mutas againt Thors cuz Idra does it.

"insert facepalm here"

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

4 gate is the norm.

Been replaying the original SC lately and I gotta say, why the hell are the Protoss only just now whipping out the warp gate tech?!

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

While sixteen gates seems like a lot, I'm finding two to definitely be not enough. Perhaps in some situations it may suffice, but when shit hits the fan you need the ability to call on more than two Stalkers at a time, or whatever you need. I still haven't built anything beyond them from a Gateway.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

11 rax ftw

In one random 3v3 match I decided to put out a 16 gate push and drop proxy pylons in expansions. It was lulz to say the least (and frikkin' laggy for the most part ... never gonna do that ever again)

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

11 rax ftw

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I'm getting pretty good. Still need to work on my early game unit production. I need a decent build order that I can rely on to build a unit defense/offense or to branch off of.

So far, it seems like every good protoss strat moves from zealots to stalkers, then sticks with stalkers while teching to something else. Stalkers are pretty good all-around, and can be used very strategically.

[Aeni]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Void Rays are good in just two scenarios:

1. A couple of them to bring down a BC.
2. En Masse for pillage, looting and raping bases, particularly those of Terran structures.

The reason being is that the longer they are in battle against a target, the more stronger their attacks become. They're woefully ineffective against lighter units and units with tiny health pools. VR can be deadly if your opponent has no air defense and if you want to open up a backdoor play and destroy his/her nexus/hatchery/command center as part of a larger strike force. I would never tech and build VRs just for shits and giggles if I'm (or my team) isn't winning the match because they're both a waste of time and resources and can be countered in numerous ways.

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

People say stuff like that, but they neglect the other facts: Terran doesn't have tier 1 medics anymore (or medics that can heal each other). Fungal Growth breaks apart and stalls pushes, nydus networks are insane (I just lost to a game where I guy was floating an ovie juuuuust outside my base and built a worm when I wasn't looking. It took him around 30 seconds to demolish half my base with nothing but hydras). And Z players are still too stupid to know they need to spread creep. As well as no burrow and no queens to heal roaches/mutas/ultras.

Most players don't know what they're doing in this game and most veterans have such bad memories from the first series that they avoid Zergs like Ebola. All the points you have made are spot on. I have a couple of friends who've successfully played zergs to the fullest and have just destroyed both terrans and protoss players in Diamond league play during beta (the results weren't even close) For some reason, they got bored to death and then successfully downgraded all the way to bronze level and were having more fun trying to be the first team to go from the top to the bottom and stay dead, dead last. :p

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Z players continue to bitch about how overpowered Terran is, but their win rates are fine, and the few pros who happen to choose Z are doing fantastically.

So, basically, Blizz eliminated lurkers and defilers and introduced a low-tech counter to ultras because terran ground wasn't overpowered enough in BW and they wanted to make it even more of an I WIN button?

Sounds like graphics win, gameplay fail to me.

People say stuff like that, but they neglect the other facts: Terran doesn't have tier 1 medics anymore (or medics that can heal each other). Fungal Growth breaks apart and stalls pushes, nydus networks are insane (I just lost to a game where I guy was floating an ovie juuuuust outside my base and built a worm when I wasn't looking. It took him around 30 seconds to demolish half my base with nothing but hydras). And Z players are still too stupid to know they need to spread creep. As well as no burrow and no queens to heal roaches/mutas/ultras.

We also like to avoid talking about mechanical changes to the game. In addition to sieged siege tanks being actually less effective vs ultras than in BW, their splash damage getting changed mid-beta to be centered on the target's center instead of the front edge means ultras physically large size reduces the amount of splash damage other units take every time an ultra is targeted instead of a hydra in a pack of other hydras. The concept of Dark Swarm was to shorten the length that your units are running into position while taking fire. Mechanically, this is identical to increased movement speed (creep), but is a passive benefit to reward active creeping. Of course, this means no daisy-chained dark swarm clouds which force an "I win, give me this land" scenario.

Finally, Ultras are a fantastic choice against marauders. Sure, Marauders deal bonus damage to them. But they're armored and they tend to clump. Enter Ultras nuts bonus vs armored, fantastic attack speed, and splash damage. Oh yeah! and the fact that they're immune to concussion grenades (marauder slow).

Sounds like gameplay win, Zerg fail to me.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Get out.

Now

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

it's so kawaii calling them banelings and zerglings and marinelines and stuff. ^.^

Get out.

[jenova_9]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

it's so kawaii calling them banelings and zerglings and marinelines and stuff. ^.^

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Banelings can counter just about any ground unit, granted the player can micro their burrow properly.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I've seen Marauders die pretty damned easily to speedlings and especially banelings...