So... Starcraft 2?

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Try the Protoss counter challenge, it's obvious that Stalkers are not counters to Hellions.

And countering is specifically building things to counter what your enemy is building. That's why scouting is so important; so you can match your opponents force with a force that can counter it.

I have the gold medal on all 9 challenges. The only problem I had was thors vs carriers. That said, I don't remember using stalkers vs hellions. I remember using colossi behind force fields.

As for counters, you make it sound like paper/rock/scissors. If I have roaches, your zealots will die IF I micro them away from you. If I let them sit, zealots technically aren't the best solution by-cost but it's still damn close. If a zerg player throws up a spire and I'm protoss, I cannot instantly have a squad of phoenixes to eat the mutalisks that can and will pop out in droves. Phoenixes may be the perfect anti-muta, but damnit, I'll use my sentries/stalkers. I was probably going Templar tech anyway. Psi storm isn't as effective vs mutas as it was in BW but I'll try. And I'll make archons as they run out of energy -- despite them being a lot weaker than in BW, as well. This game isn't won by having the absolute perfect counter to every situation. You try your best to have as many of the right units as you can. The rest is scrapping.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

A higher ranked game than you, I'm sorry to say. Terran air dominance in BW was... ehh. If you say so. Valkyries are only used in very small numbers and generally considered weak unless you can glitch them out of their attack animation. Terran air is wayyyy better in SC2.

uh huh, yeah right. BC's will shred any other air unit in DPS, and the Valkyrie fire 8 salvos dealing full damage per rocket + full splash damage in a large radius. In a straight up air superiority battle, Terrans win. But this is about SC2, and I agree that Terran Air does seem even better in 2.


was watching a video of TLO vs another guy where he used his Vikings to amazing effect (except in 1 little instance where he stupidly did not land them on the cliff) harassing the enemy supply lines. Does the THOR still have that bombardment ability that was on the old website where it functions like a siege tank but with more guns? >.>

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I've never lost a unit in the Stalker v Hellion protoss challenge.

Actually, I only lose units in that challenge when it comes to anything with Zealots lol.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

As for unit counters: keep trying. Stalkers do great against hellions even w/out blink. They both have 6 range. But Hellions have a crap rate of fire (almost as big as siege tanks in siege mode) to go with mediocre damage vs Stalkers, while Stalkers deal decent damage very quickly. Carriers really are horrid against Thors, but it's the best option you have.

Remember not to get toooo hung up on the absolute perfect counter. Thors own mutas. But that doesn't mean it's smart to walk your thor into 6 mutas alone. Even if Vikings are the best response you have to your opponent having 4 colossi on the field doesn't mean you can instantly have a squad of vikings if you're going heavily bio ball. The point of the counter exercises is to know which of the units you already have built are the most efficient to send against your opponent. In a real battle, it'll take very-fast micro to make these decisions, but they'll help a lot. If it means scattering your army and having a few marauders take the colossus fire while stimming your army and moving in, so be it.

Try the Protoss counter challenge, it's obvious that Stalkers are not counters to Hellions.

And countering is specifically building things to counter what your enemy is building. That's why scouting is so important; so you can match your opponents force with a force that can counter it.

[Lmnop]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

What fucking Starcraft were YOU playing? Yeah marines were really freaking effective against Carriers, Guardians & BC's... Terran dominated the skies in Brood War, but SC2 seems to be more balanced across the board. As for Stalkers vs Helions... well, I guess it comes down to terrain? If you can blink up to high ground they can't touch you.

A higher ranked game than you, I'm sorry to say. Terran air dominance in BW was... ehh. If you say so. Valkyries are only used in very small numbers and generally considered weak unless you can glitch them out of their attack animation. Terran air is wayyyy better in SC2.

About BCs vs big groups: the funny thing about having a .225 attack interval (i.e. SHOOTING REALLY FUCKING FAST) is that you never overkill. As soon as one target dies, your attacks move over to the next. This is ideal for taking out large groups of weaker stuff.

As for unit counters: keep trying. Stalkers do great against hellions even w/out blink. They both have 6 range. But Hellions have a crap rate of fire (almost as big as siege tanks in siege mode) to go with mediocre damage vs Stalkers, while Stalkers deal decent damage very quickly. Carriers really are horrid against Thors, but it's the best option you have.

Remember not to get toooo hung up on the absolute perfect counter. Thors own mutas. But that doesn't mean it's smart to walk your thor into 6 mutas alone. Even if Vikings are the best response you have to your opponent having 4 colossi on the field doesn't mean you can instantly have a squad of vikings if you're going heavily bio ball. The point of the counter exercises is to know which of the units you already have built are the most efficient to send against your opponent. In a real battle, it'll take very-fast micro to make these decisions, but they'll help a lot. If it means scattering your army and having a few marauders take the colossus fire while stimming your army and moving in, so be it.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I played a long match last night, with a friend of mine. It lasted over an hour long. The other team was Zerg and Protoss, and, though my amassed a large amount of resources, they didn't build much with them. Zerg went Mutas, which I countered with Hydras to great effect. Protoss went ground, for some reason, which I was also able to counter with Hydras and Roaches. My friend played Terran, and built siege tanks to blow through the wall of cannons the protoss player had built.

Also, infestors are awesome. They're the zerg's Ravens, but better. They're able to burrow and move through the ground to the back of a player's base and spam infested terrans into their supply lines, ruining their economy. It's a very potent way to harass if they don't have any detectors.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

um even a group of 5 or so hellions can wipe a group of zerglings that is double the size, they can still shred worker lines solo as well. They are fast and good for scouting expos, and cheap units since they do not require gas. For a guy who has a hard on for reapers you bash on the reaper +1.

With the upgrade 4-5 hellions can wipe an entire mineral line in one shot usually.

The reason they suck against stalkers is because stakers are not light units (like lings, or rines, or zerglings). They are considered armor and they will not take as much damage. The game kind of lies anyhow, while stalkers can counter them most Human players will just drive them past the stalkers using the speed and make them useless. However in the challenge, the AI stops to fight your units. While it is technically a counter, in all intents and purposes, it is not, simply do to maneuverability.

---------- Post added at 08:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

just an another point. Rines have a better survival rate (an higher K-D ratio) simply because they do not require a surround like lots and lings to effectively kill something. This means even if the hellions are clumped (to avoid a surround) marines can still hit them effectively. Not to mention Stim further increases the K-D rate. While hellions will likely win the day the losses will be higher against rines than any other light infantry groups.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Of course they'll drive away, but you should have time to get off at least 1 volley no? Anyway Helions aren't that great, at least unupgraded. I've seen them get torn to shreds with ease.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

wooohooo promoted I a now Rank 1 (tied with a bunch of people) in what I assume is a newly formed Gold League (1v1)

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

What fucking Starcraft were YOU playing? Yeah marines were really freaking effective against Carriers, Guardians & BC's... Terran dominated the skies in Brood War, but SC2 seems to be more balanced across the board. As for Stalkers vs Helions... well, I guess it comes down to terrain? If you can blink up to high ground they can't touch you.

And then they drive away.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Valkyrie was poop. anything it could do a wraith or marines could do better.

What fucking Starcraft were YOU playing? Yeah marines were really freaking effective against Carriers, Guardians & BC's... Terran dominated the skies in Brood War, but SC2 seems to be more balanced across the board. As for Stalkers vs Helions... well, I guess it comes down to terrain? If you can blink up to high ground they can't touch you.

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Valkyrie was poop. anything it could do a wraith or marines could do better. Now in SC2 terran get a decent AA air unit in the Transformer (aka the Viking) it has a range of 9, and it has devastating power in groups. Not only that but it can drop down and has great power in a ground unit role too.

This is very potent against Zerg as it can out range Queens early on and kill many many overlords with ease. Supply blocking the zerg. Against toss it is not as effective, however it is more powerful than a phoenix, and can out range void rays, making it an excellent AA choice against them if you have good micro.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

As far as AA goes, I really miss the Valkyrie...

Are you even playing?

This game is pretty ridiculous. The challenges are plainly RETARDED. Stalkers are NOT counters to Hellions. Nothing ground is going to be a counter for Hellions, ESPECIALLY Stalkers, since their blink ability causes them to clump together allowing the Hellion's attacks to be more effective. Carriers are NOT counters to Thors, they're not really counters to anything. Void Rays would be the preferred counter if you're playing Protoss.

I tried using the zealots in the challenge, their AI was horrible. Terrible. They, literally, ran around the Marauders doing NOTHING but running. So useless. So fucking useless.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

As far as AA goes, I really miss the Valkyrie...

[MrMageo]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

back to rank 1 in my silver division over 50 points ahead (record of 69-62)

As for BC's they are awesome when combined with an appropriate ground force. Rines are always good support troops (and don't eat any gas for the big boys.

Terran army comp needs several units combined to get the best effect. If you suspect o get swarmed by anti air (thor/muta/phoenix/stalker) a raven with Point Defense never hurts either it can often soak up enough damage to give you the advantage in mid fight.

As for things like BC's and other tech heavy costly units (thors) sometimes I wish they gave us the new science vessel. In the campaign it has the ability to heal your mech units which was awesome. Combined force of rines medivacs scv's science vessel and BC's would be godly. (but majorly over powered.)