Elvaan Thiefs ain't so bad?

[Kiyashi]

iight, i've already done this test so i'll post my results for this. i'm a elv male thf 60/30 atm.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?38797

that's my equipment atm. keep in mind this equip is a thf's dream come true and were talking the best of the best for DE damage since it's all mostly accuracy gear. now my mithra friend that's 66 atm wearing a scoprion harness just like me, snipers just like me and almost exactly what i'm wearing i asked and saw what her damage was. on IT toramas and cockatrices and crawlers which she's lvlin on right now max is 800+ with DE guess what mine is? just round the same damage 800+ damage but one major difference. i'm lvl 60 she's 66. on a regular mob easy and weak i do 700 800+ damage by itself and with SA stacked over 1k damage easy. case in point when i hit 66 i expect a mithra to do more damage in the sharkbite department as naturally more for them b/c they have more dex then elv's but what if we max out our dex n such??? would we be gimped??? nope in fact we could contend with the best races. taru,galka,hume, all of em if your equip is placed correctly for w/e ws your using you will do good damage case in point attk and acc for DE and back to dex and agi for shark. yes late ron mithras will do more damage b/c shark is based off of dex and agi but right now i feel good being able to contend witha mithra with max acc and attk gear in place it's all in the equip put in for w/e your doing and i have YET to hear anyone ever complain about my damage as an elv thf

[ibroyles]

DrSerpico is it your sole purpose to antagonize Elvaan THFs? I mean is there some rule in the fucking instruction book that says Elvaan can't be THFs, I mean shit... I find that a lot of Mithras in this game like to do that. They pull the "we are better than you at XXX job because of XXX stat." OK, who gives a shit? On top of that you don't even play THF main so it looks like you are just coming on the Thief board to show your superiority as a Mithra...even though you don't even play as THF.

If you really want to play that game I can just as easily argue that Mithras suck compared to Taru at RDM(EDIT: which I wouldn't normally say btw, but this is analogous to what you're doing). So I hope you can see my point its not like anybody is going to reroll because the stats are a little challenged for a certain race. Hell some people see it as a challeng(like me).

[Tokitoki]

............
OK lets start with the fact that, my base DEX is 3 less than a Mithras Base DEX that is the same lvl as me. My AGI is 4 less than the Mithras.

Ok with that aside, I was in Temple Ugg... w/e.. and i was questing for that Bee Larvae to get a Hornetneedle. Im a Elv THF60/NIN30 and im with a SMN75/WHM37(which isnt the contender) and a Taru THF71/NIN35. He has 2x Sniper, Lifebelt, Emp pin, leaping, drones, lightning bow +1, the gloves that are like AF (+3 dex) but they also have +1 STR.. cant remember name atm, and the rest fo that stuff. I have emp pin, 2x flourite, leaping, drone, regular lightning bow, af glove/pants, lifebelt etc etc. The main differences in our gear was his 2 sniper and BLue Cothardie vs my Black Cotehardie and 2 flourite.

my damage SA/TA/DE: 1109, 978, 876
Tarus SA/TA/DE: 1200 something, 900 something, 700 something

Hmm... these bees are EP to me, i ahve only +10 acc, +23DEX +31 AGI...

These bees are TW to him, he has +20 acc, around +25 DEX, and around +20 AGI(because you start to focus less on AGI later on). Considering he is 11 lvls higher than me, and trust me, my LS is not about being gimp, he has all the stuff you need as a THF using DE except Sharness and Optical. Why do i do only 100 less damage or so...

Everybody, and i mean EVERYBODY, amkes it out to be like Elv have 50 less DEX and AGI than Mithra. They say "oh well put the mithra in the same equipment and blah blah blah." The fact is, they dont get all teh same equipment because they ahev that couple extra DEX and AGI, they use that as a cushion. There is a reason why there are 16 70+ Mithra THFs and 12 70+ Elv THF on my server... THE DIFFERENCE ISNT AS MUCH AS EVERYONE THINKS IT IS! Also the fact that we have higher STR is underestimated too much. STR is one of the main contributors yo WS damage.

PS: I would love to post screens, had i had my Fraps up

[ibroyles]

Thanks Tokitoki you said what I was trying to say a little more elegantly. Its just like I said earlier, I could argue that Taru beats out Mithra for RDM because of more MP, but is anybody really nitpicking when it comes to that? I just don't understand why some people exaggerate like "OHNOEZ elvaan THf be careful they do shit damage," but then nobody seems to complain when say, there's a taru SAM or something that gets applauded just because he's cute. I mean can't you see the hypocricy there?

[Kiyashi]

well said toki ^_^ i also have a lil theory myself on increasing DE damage. that being if you stack some dex and agi on you in turn increase sata damage will in turn increase DE damage. but in my experiments my accuracy gear mixed with a lil attack has proven a lil more beneficial in damage for me. but i do believe if you mis dex with agi you will yeild close or bout the same DE damage as one with accuracy attack gear. i dunno DE is a real iffy ws you kno what i'm saying. sometimes it pwns sometimes it just plain out sucks lol i hear as you lvl up though damage gets better and more consistent. atm though my harness and specs are real nice for DE damage. almost everytime all 5 hits land wielding the high damage i want ^^ but i have ahume thf friend thats 60 that has alot of dex and agi were talking flourites black cotehardie lust dagger with greed and royal knights belt and such. he yields close to round 800 damage ^^ i think like i said before it's b/c dex and agi adding to sata damage i'll experiment some more though and let you know and yea mithras think there all godlike b/c of the extra 3 dex and 4 agi -_- and everyone just doesn't think if you put the time into your job for skill and time to gain gil for awsome equip you can be any job just takes time and equip and skill and anyone can be anything ^^

[Tokitoki]

Just 2 more litle things...

1) Elv THF doing 160 on VB is BS. Those THF a) were noobs and you cant deny that considering you said in CRAWLERS NEST, and b) 1 or 2 THF doesnt account for them all. I have had many comments on being "the best THF ive PT'd with" or just something along the lines of being a "great THF." I keep getting invites for a reason dont I? Whenever im seeking, there are always 2 or 3 otehr THFs seeking, most of which being Hume, yet some how the "omgwtfbbqsux0rzelvthf" gets the invite before the Humes, Taru, Mithras...

2) It isnt all about damage, its the way you paly the character. If you dont know what youa re doing, then you are going to be a bad THF whether you're Mithra, Hume, Taru, Galka, or Elvaan.


oh and Kiy, just fyi, im farming up for a sniper or 2, first im going to see the damage with 1 sniper, then if nessecary farm for a second. I'm trying to see which ends up better myself. Though it does seem that losing +6 DEX is a lot :sweat:

[Kiyashi]

2 sniper's is one of the best investments you can ever make ^_^ your tp will sky rocket and if you use food, OMGGGGGGGGGG let the renkei's begin lol to be honest toki yea +6 dex being lost is alot but like i've said DE damage is based off of acc. and attk. so until you hit the magic number of 66 get as much accuracy as you can get lol trust me everyone keeps saying i have such an overkill on accuracy but to me those 5 hits of DE landing are very important and when your fighting toramas, raptors,cockatrices which all have really high evasion you will need all the accuracy you can get. dex and agi is based on for sata power but it doesn't really warrant in to the DE damage from what i experimented with :/ it's weird to be honest toki sometimes i did get a high fuidama with max dex and agi but more times then none it just kind of did 500-600 damage :/ compared to 800+ with accuracy gear and attack ^^ but i highly recommend 2 sniper's man, best investment you can make, they really are worth the bang for your buck ^_~

[Kite322]

DEX is seriously over-rated. Any good THF knows it.

[DrSerpico]

Short reply.

DrSerpico is it your sole purpose to antagonize Elvaan THFs?

Nope.

I could argue that Taru beats out Mithra for RDM because of more MP, but is anybody really nitpicking when it comes to that?

I agree. Nobody's nitpicking though, since the most important function, 1:1 can be easily reached on mithras as well... At least endgame. Elvaans have to struggle a bit more tho.

Hmm... these bees are EP to me

Hmm... Damage on EP mobs cap with str. This is why elvaans are good farmers.

On top of that you don't even play THF main so it looks like you are just coming on the Thief board to show your superiority as a Mithra...even though you don't even play as THF.

My thief is level 40. On top of that, I've partied with a good share of thieves. Based on this, I voice my opinion. It is biased, of course. So is yours.

This is what it boils down to. I voice my opinion, and some ppl take it as though I'm claiming that this is absolute truth, It is not. It's my opinion. I voice it, and I'm civil towards those that disagree. Have I offended you in any way with these opinions, then I apologize.

��れ����

[ibroyles]

Re: Short reply.

Originally posted by DrSerpico
Nope.

Well then why do you have a quote about Elvaan THFs sucking in your sig, is it really that important that you feel the need to spread teh word on every single post you make?

Originally posted by DrSerpico
I agree. Nobody's nitpicking though, since the most important function, 1:1 can be easily reached on mithras as well... At least endgame. Elvaans have to struggle a bit more tho.

Oh I see, so Mithras can easily overcome a MP and INT deficiency while playing as RDM, but Elvaan can't overcome a DEX and AGI deficiency when playing as THF? Something tells me you are weighting your personal race choice a little too favorably and not giving other races the benefit of the doubt.

Originally posted by DrSerpico
It's my opinion.

Of course it's your opinion, I know that by virtue of the fact that you said it. What I don't understand is why you seem to have almost a prejudice against Elvaan THFs in this game like they can't even do the job. They can still place the hate on the tank, they can still output quite a bit of burst damage too. Secondly even though you may have a THF at 40...I'm only 30 and I know my main purpose is to first get that SATA to place hate, any damage that I do is most likely ignored by the party anyways. The few times people do mention my damage it is usually surprising to them because I always keep the best equips. This is also the same response I've heard from other Elvaan THFs. The thing is because there's some myth about Elvaan being so bad, people expect them to do shit damage(like that guy earlier in the thread, who said Elvaan SATA was like 100dmg) when in reality that's not the case.

Originally posted by DrSerpico
This is what it boils down to. I voice my opinion, and some ppl take it as though I'm claiming that this is absolute truth, It is not. It's my opinion. I voice it, and I'm civil towards those that disagree. Have I offended you in any way with these opinions, then I apologize.

I wasn't taking your opinion as the absolute truth, I was simply stating that I don't agree with your opinion. As I said earlier this is all discussion so its assumed to be opinions unless parsers or some hard evidence comes into play. While it doesn't offend me so much that you posted in this thread about your thoughts, it does dishearten me that you parade your sig around the forums. How would you feel if somebody was snickering at the way you chose to play the game(keep in mind sometimes people don't choose race with stats in mind, they choose it as an idealization of the character they want to play). In the end all I'm trying to say is different races have strengths/weaknesses and for you to trolly around a certain races weaknesses just seem to be a personal weakness on your part(akin to making fun of people in middle school to make oneself feel better). Just keep in mind that while it might be intended to be good fun or a good joke, it might come off the wrong way.

[DrSerpico]

Fast, aren't we?

Oh I see, so Mithras can easily overcome a MP and INT deficiency while playing as RDM, but Elvaan can't overcome a DEX and AGI deficiency when playing as THF? Something tells me you are weighting your personal race choice a little too favorably and not giving other races the benefit of the doubt.

1:1. I agree means I know I'm lesser than taru's. However, compare the amount of +mp and hp>mp eq compared to dex/agi eq. I give other races benefit of a doubt. I don't ignore my own flaws. Elvaanity... is what I dislike.

[ibroyles]

Ok well I didn't mean to come off like so many Elvaan fanboys do and say that Elvaan are the end all be all THFs. I'm not one of those guys. At the same time I don't agree that Elvaan THFs should be picked on while so many other Race/Job combos are not the best, and people never give it a second thought. I try not to judge any Race/Job combos harshly(even if I know they're not the best), because in the end skill>race, and race in my opinion is there to distinguish your playing style in a class.

What's weird is it looks like you chose Mithra for the same reasons I chose Elvaan(...don't mean to put words in your mouth but...), which is because you liked the style of the race and thought it would fit into your personal playstyle. You obviously admit that Taru>Mithra when it comes to RDM, but you still chose that race to play with your main, yet you criticize Elvaan THFs for doing the same thing. I mean sure, Mithra>Elvaan when it comes to THF...but its not like Mithra>>>>>>>Elvaan when it comes to THF, I don't think its that big of a gap.

[Narru]

Originally posted by Kiyashi
i'm a elv male thf 60/30 atm.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?38797

that's my equipment atm. keep in mind this equip is a thf's dream come true and were talking the best of the best for DE damage since it's all mostly accuracy gear.

Corsair's Knife -> Darksteel Kukri +1
Hornetneedle -> Bone Knife +1
Lightning Bow -> Lightning Bow +1
Spectacles -> Peacock Charm
Drone Earring -> Gening Earring
Scorpion Harness -> Flora Cotehardie
Sniper's Ring -> Sniper's Ring +1
Nomad's Mantle -> Nomad's Mantle +1
Leaping Boots -> Winged Boots

[guyincorporated]

Originally posted by Tokitoki
............
OK lets start with the fact that, my base DEX is 3 less than a Mithras Base DEX that is the same lvl as me. My AGI is 4 less than the Mithras.

Wait, WHAT? You have a base of 62 dex, and 54 agility at level 60. I had a base of 76 dex and 68 agility at level 60.

That's a fourteen pont swing in both dexterity AND agility. If we're going to intelligently argue the merits of elvaan thieves (which I think is important, more information in this game of total uncertainty is always useful), then we shouldn't be fooling ourselves about our weaknesses and strengths.

[Rogan]

well actually I said the mithra thf that did over 400 were in CN, the elvaans that did 160 were in gustav, still kinda a noob spo but yeah.. believe what you want though I saw maybe 3 or 4 elv thfs they all did a little under 2 hundred with sata Viper Bite