Elvaan Thiefs ain't so bad?

[negativepos]

I re-read alot of older posts on how horrible Elvaan Thiefs are and i just partied with one and they are DEFINETLY not close to how bad some make them out to be...This was a 63 PT Nin,Mnk,Thf,Brd,Blm,Whm and i was very impressed by the THF's dmg output.He had "Normal" thief gear(hairpin ect)...no scorp harness,peacockcharm or any of that.I think after im done with monk i might take up thief after seeing what they can do.What are your thoughts on Elvaan THF's at 70+ (mostly want to hear from mithra ) but any opinion is welcome.

Edit: I am curious as to how much the low Elvaan INT will affect high level stealing/mugging.I also realize some of this info could be found by searching but i am interested in up-to-date opinions as it seems more and more people are accepting that gear>race by a larger margin in the higher levels.

[0jiggy0]

The only thf's i lvled with 70+ were hume, taru and elvaan. On the SA/TA ws' both the taru and hume did much more dmg then the elv and on the normal battle start ones, avged about 100 more. It's a pretty significant difference, especially when at that lvl theres already much better melee to chose from.

[negativepos]

I haven't partied with a THF in a couple of months now so i dont exactly have experience in comparing races btw :sweat:

[Blacki]

Hmmm

anyway the crap talking that thf elv is bad is useless

im a lvl 45 thf i can make hume and taru look like shit its all in the equip .... my sub is NIN this my normal dmg ::

THF use SATA
THF hits for 380-450 ----> more dmg on flies around 480 w/o ws
THF hits for 21
THF hits for 24
-------------------------------
sorry but my SATA cant outdmage mithra but i own on the normal hits and sorry they suck at the normal hits deparment
they hit like shit... low str and attack unless they only wait for SATA every min

*most ppl seem not to like elv thf thats why i dont get lots of invites and im really sure that race had nothing to do with the job only the player can make the job look good
:confused:

[Rogan]

the fact is elvaan thf can't match the damage of any other race except maybe galka, even with their high str they have horrible dex and it just makes SATA terrible, I pted with a mithra thf in CN at maybe lvl 36 or so, did a lil over 400 with SATA viper bite, then I pted with some elvaan thfs in gustav tunnel maybe lvl 42 or so who did like 160 with sata viper bite..

[neighbortaru]

He missed SATA. 160 is too low even for ELV.

(disclaimer: haven't PT'd with THF over 50)
Honestly, ELV THF isn't teh sux0r that everyone makes them out to be. Compared to taru, hume or galka we do alright. Compared to mithra, well... we can't compare to mithra. Higher regular hits is kinda irrelevant. THF's are invited for the SATA and that's the number that counts.

If you've managed to take ELV THF up and can honestly say you can compare with MTH, then kudos to you. I stopped trying long ago. Mad respect goes out to Stanislav.

[Craig A. Rock]

Well to tell the truth im just starting out on my THF (which is now 18 ) and the only things i missed on was normal attacks and my ranged attacks (my sub waz ranger and i still missed even with Sharpshot. but i also heard from my hume friend he missed alot even with sharpshot too which is dissapointing.) but almost every one of my SAs connected for around 60-70 pts of damage with meat mithkabobs(of course im in Valkurm fighting gobs). my steal rate was also pretty good. i only ever failed to steal like 3 times that night. So in my opionion elvaan THFs are pretty good.

[Rogan]

He missed SATA. 160 is too low even for ELV

it wasnt just one elvaan or one time , the most ive seen an elvaan sata viper bite for was in the 200's on average like i said was close to 200, a lil under it

[Omena]

Race has nothing to do with steal rate. Only your level matters.

As a thief I don't really party with other thieves, so I can't really say how the different races compare. Mithra is theoretically the best and elvaan the worst, though.

[Rogan]

mithra is no doubt the best followed by taru then hume then galka then elvaan imo

[DrSerpico]

Opinions

Sig has it.

sorry but my SATA cant outdmage mithra but i own on the normal hits and sorry they suck at the normal hits deparment

Yeah, right. Sorry to burst your bubble, but no. the difference between you hitting 20 on normal hits and mithra hitting 17-18 compared to mithra SATAing 200+ more dmg than you... well, you get the idea.

Sig has it.

[Sabastion]

Originally posted by Blacki
Hmmm

anyway the crap talking that thf elv is bad is useless

im a lvl 45 thf i can make hume and taru look like shit its all in the equip .... my sub is NIN this my normal dmg ::

THF use SATA
THF hits for 380-450 ----> more dmg on flies around 480 w/o ws
THF hits for 21
THF hits for 24
-------------------------------
sorry but my SATA cant outdmage mithra but i own on the normal hits and sorry they suck at the normal hits deparment
they hit like shit... low str and attack unless they only wait for SATA every min

*most ppl seem not to like elv thf thats why i dont get lots of invites and im really sure that race had nothing to do with the job only the player can make the job look good
:confused:

Thats it?
*snicker*


j/k



Seriously. Only a mithran thf equally equiped as myself can match my sata dmg or pass me by like 50hp max, AND I hit harder then them on melee hit's.

Dex+23 Agi+16 Str+6 Att+15 Acc+20 (before food and 1700exp short of knights belt.)

Mithra > Hume > Taru >Galka > Elvaan.

[Rhayn]

Please refer to the following thread on Elvaan THFs:

Elvaan THF = BAD? Don't think so! (｀・ω・´)

Basically it just boils down to how much effort you want to put into the job.

Attack, STR, DEX, AGI, and of course the dagger damage all play roles in fuidama damage. From everything I've seen and read, it seems STR and the weapon determines the base damage, DEX and AGI determine this base damage's multiplier, and the characters attack rating determine the average random choice on the damage curve. Thus Elvaan naturally have high base damage and relatively consistant averages on their curve, but the curve will naturally be lower than for jobs like Mithra. Mithra, however, need to up their attack rating to get more consistant 'high' damage on their curve, but also need to boost AGI and DEX to increase the multipliers as well.

As with many other jobs, balancing several important stats is key to playing at peak ability. Mithra are probably a bit more balanced to play thief naturally, but with the right equips other races, including Elvaan, can compensate of their natural differences in AGI and DEX and can also use their other natural differences, such as higher STR, to their advantage. Does this make Elvaan 'equal' or 'better'? I'd say no, but Elvaan thieves most certainly can hold their own.

Oh, and I should probably mention I'm in a static with a well-equipped Mithra thief. Her damage on Dancing Edge and Shark Bite capped around the same as Stanislav, on the same monsters. Stanislav was still probably better equipped, but it just shows that balancing stats with your equipment choices are more important than being the "perfect" race for the job.

[Omena]

There is no multiplier in fuidama.

According to a widely accepted formula, dex and agi are directly added to your weapon base damage if both Sneak Attack and Trick Attack are triggered. So with a 23 dmg dagger and 85 dex and agi your weapon base damage will be 193.

But now that I think about it, I must have forgotten something, because if this was true, upgrading your dagger to a higher damage one would make a rather small difference. Oh well, maybe I'll dig up some formulas tomorrow.

[DrSerpico]

Hmmm

Rhayn, that's fine and dandy... but if you put the same gear on any other race, they'll outperform the elf on sata. Simple as that.

My sata+ws on sam will never be as high as elvaans, I accept it, and I work on it. I don't ignore the fact.

Btw, with 300tp and double doublehit, I've done 900jinpus without sata. ^^

Thing is, run a parser on stan over 24 hours of playtime. Then put the exact same gear on a mithra of same level, run the parser again. Then I'll listen intently ^^

(Smaller sample sizes are accepted, of course, merely stating a point.)