Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

[Tokitoki]

Originally posted by Novac
You obviously never did SA-Combo at low levels.

I'm not going to tell you how good it is because you're dead set on not trying things out youself anwyay.

Thieves below 25 outdamages every single melee class out there with SA-combo.

Did i say that SA+combo was bad? No, i said it beats everything else, read some more

[Akle]

Thanks... I Did Actually Need That...

I was Undecided what SubJob to take... I Still am Really But i'll use Warrior til 30 at least. Before i quest Ninja.

[Tseng808]

im Told RNG does Great amounts of damage as well as good AGI

im still lvl 19 with ym tHF and only just done the sub job quest to get my WAR as sub im still torn between

THF/NIN and THF/RNG

[John Doe III]

Originally posted by Dragonhope
Under 30 (even more so under 20), THF/MNK is better then other subs if they use H2H. They get the two punches and with /MNK it's not all that slow so they don't lose that much in delay either. Also the H2H weapons tend to give some +acc as well which helped a bit at low levels. But comparing damage of SA+Fast Blade and SA+Combo...the SA+Combo does more but SA+Fast Blade wasn't too far behind.

So...if you want to be a DD under 30, /MNK is the way to go. If you want to be a supportive player, /BRD I think would be better.

Very well said^^

[ClydeArrowny]

Post-20, /DRK and /DRG gives an attack bonus which will allow them to do more (And DRG gets jump...DRG is actually one of the best SJ for melees 20-30), which adds 10 ATK I believe? On the otherhand, post-22, you get a +15 accuracy bonus. Considering the lack of ACC items at lower levels, it IS a very good boost.

Personally I believe /rng is the best sub for melee 20-30, well assuming you already have a brd. You get an acc bonus of...i believe 10. Also this passive works with madrigal.

[Kutch]

I'm going to lean on THF/MNK a little more here.

Currently at THF47/MNK25, and not wanting to spend alot of time into raising up a NIN/RNG sub due to the cost of gear.

I've experienced that with MNK sub, the SATA+backhand blow is absolutely superior to SATA+Viper bite on Fire-based mobs, go figure - I've experimented with this by soloing Maze Lizards in CN when waiting for PT Invite (nice to farm skins), SATA with Backhand Blow outperforms Viper Bite by at least 100 damage - viper bite seems to cap at around 250 on the maze lizards, backhand blow goes all the way up to 400 (rare, but has happened).

With a MNK sub, you can SATA on Combo, Backhand Blow, and if I'm not mistaken, Raging Fists too.

At 50, I get Focus available on the monk, which is not bad at all to have for SATA's, in addition to increased hand to hand percentage.

Of course, at 50, I also have available double attack with WAR sub, with triple attack waiting for THF at level 55.. hard choices

MNK Sub gives:
+Boost to SATA
+Dodge for evasion up on tricky pulls
+Faster TP gain due to hand-to-hand being semi-dual wield
+Focus to SATA @level 50

WAR sub gives:
+ Berserk to SATA
+ Passive physical defense
+ Double attack @level 50
+ Defender @level 50

Also consider that you get a large HP boost with MNK Sub over war,and that you rarely take damage pulling until you're in Valley of Sorrows where mobs catch up with ya, I'd say it's wort to consider MNK as sub in the level range from 30-50 aswell, and definetely from 50-55. After that, the double attack + triple attack combination with a WAR sub is probably going to be hard to overlook

[Elsurion]

Dagger has weak WS, that's a fact, they normaly do from 50 up to 150 @100%TP with no modifier from SA or TA.

It can be boostet with Sneak and Trick from behind the mob/person. So a viper is able to dig out 600+ of a too weak ~ even.

The only Dagger WS, that works with no modifier on high dmg is Dancing Edge, which goes from 250 (weak one) up to 700 (all hits landed) w/o modifier and from front.
With correct placed SA or TA modifier it can reach up to 1200 on too weak ~ even.

And when you pull fast mob you going to like NIN also it's nice to get up to 10% TP form a Dual Wield instead of only 5% TP from only 1 Dagger. When you use Hornetneedle offhand you're not much slower then a ~250 sword. Added Dual Wield Bonus and the 150 Hornetneedle.

[Tokitoki]

Been a long time since i first posted this so i decided to update a bit. The general idea of what to use and not use in a PT situation stands, but there has been some commentary added for speacial situations such as farming/HNMing/screwing around. The parts I added are at the end of each section, they are based more from experience than from what i FELT was good at the time.

[ReisII]

and yet you'll all still use ninja at 33 on...unless you're that cool cat who has to be a trend setter.

You're all arguing to just...argue lol.

You'll all use nin, and you'll all like it, and then you'll bitch somemore for fun.

(and I agree that brd wouldn't be bad, madrigal would be nice, and I've seen /mnk work just as well, with combo, /mnk ups the atrocious skill thf has in h2h a bit, which helps in dmg)

double stats on dagger for /nin..I find that Helpful..

slap me if I'm wrong.

(oh and as for the greed scim. comment. Most hold it in their off hand, and most wouldn't dare use it without it's capped skill, so in short, the stats it gives would help anyway, if the dagger in the main hand is good enough.)

Still, I think a strong dagger in main, and fast in second, and the right use of EQ switch is the best way to go with /nin. I personally use /nin, but I know from experience /war is nice, seeing as I'm taru, but I like the bonus's from double daggers and the ninjuitsu's I get and finally eva for pulling, soloing.

[Spider-Dan]

On the subject of low-level subjobs, I was just thinking:

THF/RNG + sushi
Equip highest DMG knuckles you can find
Spam bullets or acid/venom bolts
Every 60sec, SA or SA+WS

The fact that you don't have Martial Arts from /MNK won't matter, because you're TPing with /ra anyway.

[Tokitoki]

depends on how low/high you are but yea its not a bad idea to use a crossbow as long as you have some skill in it. That will be expensive for a lot of teh THF that are just starting out though, especially actually TP'ing with them, but i guess since you need a 30 job to unlock RNG they would be able to farm the money to do it. /RNG is actually a good sub for most jobs at low lvl jobs. I lvl SAM with sub RNG, WAR with sub RNG isnt bad, and THF isnt half bad either.

[Muu Yi]

Re: Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

On the subject of low-level subjobs, I was just thinking:

THF/RNG + sushi
Equip highest DMG knuckles you can find
Spam bullets or acid/venom bolts
Every 60sec, SA or SA+WS

The fact that you don't have Martial Arts from /MNK won't matter, because you're TPing with /ra anyway.

Interesting idea, but there's a problem in that /Rng provides no defensive abilities should you get hate prior to level 30 Trick Attack with this job combination. From my experience, all tanks I partied with before level 30 had lots of trouble regaining hate off me after I used Sneak Attack + Combo... thank goodness for lucky Counters and Evasion. After level 30 it may be more valid as you can then Sneak Attackk + Trick Attack off your tank or initial Provoker. Another aspect to consider when comparing /Rng to /Mnk is that one of the abilities that made Thief/Monk do good damage with hand-to-hand at low levels is Boosting prior to Sneak Attack or Sneak Attack + Combo. Also, wouldn't eating Ranged Accuracy/Attack food be better if that's the only way you plan on gaining TP? Sneak Attack already guarantees that the hand-to-hand weaponskill will land.

This idea might have good potential though depending on how fast you can gain TP by shooting only... you would probably want to stand at a distance now due to the patch to ranged damage so that you are more accurate with ranged weapons. Although I see no reason not to run in and attempt a round of hand-to-hand every 5 shots or so for possibly more TP or prior to preparing for the skillchain... after all the higher the delay of the weapon the higher the TP that is possible to gain back with each hit.

Speaking of skillchains, Lv. 50 Thief/Ranger using Marksmanship and Hand-to-hand weapon would have the following weaponskills available to them assuming they haven't merited anything on another job beforehand:

Hand-to-hand: Combo, Shoulder Tackle, and Backhand Blow
Marksmanship: Hot Shot, Split Shot, and Sniper Shot

Of these 6 weaponskills only 2 can be stacked with SATA and used to close level 2 skillchains: Combo and Shoulder Tackle. Combo performs admirably with Thief as it uses both Strength and Dexterity as its Secondary Attributes and its damage does increase the more TP you have. However, Shoulder Tackle is much less attractive for damage as its secondary attribute is Vitality only and its damage is not affected by the amount of TP you have. The main reason that anyone would even use Shoulder Tackle in battle is to stun the mob you are fighting. What that means is basically that by equipping hand-to-hand weapons you are gearing yourself more for fighting a mob that is weak to fire and/or light and probably has high defense. i.e. Crawlers, Beetles, Bones, and possibly Goblins. That is not to say that you do not have other skillchain options.

One other method I just thought up would be to actually use Ranged Weaponskills and do SATA separately since you cannot stack SATA with ranged weaponskills. You are essentially making yourself kind of like a weak Ranger (Unable to use Holy Bolts and higher ;_ but one who can also SATA for decent damage. You won't be able to perform one big weaponskill hit, but doing two medium damage hits may make up for it.

For example if you are fighting crab mobs which are weak to Thunder as well as Ice and have high defense you could use Split Shot to close Fragmentation as Split Shot ignores Defense and Fragmentation does Thunder + Wind damage even when it has its defenses up, then wait for its defenses to go down before tagging it with regular hand-to-hand SATA. Or if your party wants to go the standard Distortion route you can Open Distortion with Sniper Shot instead and have your Provoker (Warrior, Samurai, or Dark Knight would work well here) to close the skillchain and if they get hate you can SATA back onto the tank. Or if the mob is almost dead you can SATA off your Provoker.

Anyway, this idea intrigues me and I'll see about trying it out if I'm given the chance. Need to level Ranger up some more.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

SATA stacks with Backhand blow nicely... The only reason you really need a lv 2 SC is so the BLM has a choice on what to cast, the damage difference isnt that high when you have a good WS ending them. I cant see anyone using H2H at lvl 50 unless they are /MNK and are doing bones with A LOT of acc boosting food/equip.


PS: I'm sure youve noticed but these were posted a while ago ;p

[Kyodi]

Re: Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

Just for my wee input, I personally have used /brd, a long time ago, but still. I used it on my DRG in Valkurm, and the only problem I had was slow party invites, From two factors I'd assume, Dragoon with an odd subjob.

My whitemage loved me subbing Bard, and even proclaimed it easier, though they did not understand at first. (I was using bard since at the time..well.. I was just curious of how Paeon'd work.)

In all truth, though, I wouldn't like to use it again, singing's just too boring for me, which is why I don't play a bard. As mentioned above, and a long way back, the major difference in the Valkurm stage is race. You can have a Galka and a Hume warrior, exact same gear,w eapon, level, skill. The galka will do more damage just from racial bonuses. Just like Mithra have higher dex than say, humes again since they're balanced. You can't change these, and subs aren't going to make much of a difference.

On my thief, I subbed WAR Pre-20, since my parties either wanted me to tank or we had a ninja and I was the only voker. Pre-15, I don't know about subbing bard, since Thieves get fairly slow invites then anywho. I have *never* used a sword on thief pre-20, I prefer to stick with daggers to have them skilled up, since my warrior off-hands a sword every now and then when my parties don't mind.

Post-20, I admit, I'm a follower. I use Ninja, and the only time I use a sword is here, for a dagger with small sword offhanded until someone wants a SC using a sword, then switch.

My THF's only about 34 since my crash-course of "WAR/THF Gets invites very slow" kicked in. Now I'm leveling /Nin and boy do I hate it x.x;.

In short, Vana d'iel needs to be more open-minded, and people need to look into the benifits of certain jobs as subs and mains.

[Rai|Kye]

Re: Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

a Hume THF/MNK level 15 can do 100+ dmg with SA and Combo.

no other sub will let deal as much dmg at that level.
I always saw THF as a DD and Hate-manager so i would recomemd to sub MNK pre 24.
there some jobs that can sub brd and that are, BST, RDM and maaaaaaybe war.

i would never sub brd for any of the jobs post 25.