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Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

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  • Subjob Guide; SO STOP ASKING!

    Updated: 7/26/07

    PT = Party
    SA = Sneak Attack
    TA = Trick Attack
    WS = Weapon Skill
    DoT = Damage Over Time
    NM = Notorius Monster
    HNM = Hyper? Notorius Monster (Harder NM? I don't know what the dang H stands for!)
    AoE = Area of Effect

    Basic Jobs:

    Good sub to use if you decide Hand-to-hand is your choice for your weapon before Viper Bite. The Martial Arts delay reductions aren't spectacular but they get the job done. The DoT suffers a bit compared to sword, but the spike damage with SA+Combo has the potential to be higher than SA+Fast Blade.

    This should be the sub you choose if you are using a Sword pre-Viper Bite. It is also one of the two subs you will be using for anything higher up.
    After 30 you gain Berserk which will increase both DoT and WS damage.
    After 50 you gain Double Attack which again increases DoT and potential WS damage.
    Stack these two abilities with Triple Attack at level 55 and you have a DoT monster (as far as Thieves go).
    I generally use this sub for HNMs where I will be allowed to melee or will gain TP before the fight. The initial damage from a good SATAWS with Berserk and Warcry are nothing that can be simply shaken off.

    White Mage;
    Can be used for initial low-level experience (soloing only, using it in a PT at any level is not a good idea). It can also be used for questing, coffer hunting, etc where sneak and invisible are handy to have.

    Black Mage;
    Serves no real purpose in an experience PT situation. You could sub it for Warp if you are doing some traveling, but it is otherwise a useless sub.

    Red Mage;
    This would be used in a similar situation as WHM. It can be used for Sneak and Invisible but should not be used in a situation outside of that really.

    Advanced Jobs:

    Can be used for the initial soloing, much like White Mage. It has lower MP, but offers a smaller HP bonus compared to White Mage. Again, not party friendly.

    Dark Knight;
    This sub job can be used in various places. One of the main places someone may see this used is small HNM. If you are looking for higher WS numbers than /Warrior then you can stack on Souleater and do some damage.
    This, however, does not make it a very practical PT sub. Last Resort is weaker and shorter than Berserk. Souleater takes your HP. You don't have enough MP or magic skill to do anything worthwhile either.
    It would lose out in DoT to Ninja and Warrior sub jobs, and should really only be used for the random event where you feel like pushing up WS damage a bit.

    This and Warrior are by far the most popular subs, but this one definitely has the majority of the Thief player base.
    The ability to dual-wield daggers has always appealed to people. There is a small increase in attack speed (10%), but at the cost of less TP per hit.
    Originally this sub was used with a high damage dagger in teh main hand and a fast/stat buffing dagger in the offhand to try to be as fast as posible. A while ago Square-Enix removed the "TP Floor" of 5% per hit which Thieves exploited so well. This decreased the speed that Thieves gained TP and people started looking at using two balanced damage daggers with a relatively low speed that gives respectable DoT.
    Ninja is still a good sub to use and will in no way "gimp" your play. Utsusemi helps with damage mitigation while pulling and from some AoEs, Dual Wield gets enhanced again at 50Thief (25Ninja) to give a 15% delay reduction as well. It is in general the sub you will be using while pulling flee-speed or fast-moving mobs or in cases where the camp has monsters that do an AoE that your shadows could block. Otherwise I would suggest Warrior.

    This was really coming along before the "Ranger nerf" way back, and then lost its flavor. When S-E decided to change the Ranged Accuracy and Attack penalties based on distance and level again recently this sub could be argued.
    After level 20 subbing Ranger is a good plan. There is a natural accuracy bonus, much like Dragoon, that will effect both your melee and ranged attacks. When you are able to land Acid Bolts on the monster you are fighting it can only further help your party, though you don't have to be subbing Ranger to do this.
    Once you hit 30 it would be better to sub Warrior, though, as the perks of this sub are outdone by Berserk.

    Just no. That's all that needs to be said.

    Recently there have been a few changes made to Samurai which gives them Hasso (an ability that gives a 10% delay reduction, accuracy bonus, and STR bonus) and Seigan (allows Third eye to anticipate multiple attacks or counter, and reduces the Third Eye timer from 1 minute to 30 seconds).
    Unfortunately at the same time it didn't help Thief much. Hasso and Seigan can only be used when using a two-handed weapon, which Thief can use a grand total of 0 (useful, level-appropriate ones at least). It also increased the recast time of Third Eye to 1 minute from 30 Seconds unless Seigan is in use. The only thing that really helped Thief (arguably) is the lowering of the level that the trait Zanshin is learned. But again, Zanshin is just a Double Attack that can go off only when you miss, so not much going on there.
    Meditate can still be used the same way. It still gives up to 60TP per use when subbed, but is not the most useful in PTs because there are not many more benefits that come with the job.
    Can be used for HNM where you won't be meleeing or gaining TP beforehand.

    Can be used as a sub to solo pretty well. The theory is (and I don't really know if it has been proven, sorry) that (Beastmaster job level + Main job level)/2= the level you can charm at. This would still need a good amount of CHR and probably a Light Staff if 51+ to pull off well. I have never actually tried it, but some people say it works well so go ahead and see for yourself, but only in a solo situation.

    Can be subbed in the dunes if you don't have anything else to sub or believe that the single song and inability to use instruments is worthwhile. Sword Madrigal is 12Bard I believe, which leaves you with pretty much just Minuet1 and Paeon.
    Arguments for and against this sub have been posted in the following pages. If the sub interests you, read on.

    I have seen it used before. Jumps give you the ability to gain a bit more TP every few minutes. Jump is level 10 Dragoon, High Jump is level 35 Dragoon so the best time to use this would be between 20 and 30 Thief. After that the other jobs take over usefulness. There is an Accuracy Bonus trait at level 30 Dragoon, but I would not suggest subbing it that late into the game.

    ToAU Advanced Jobs:

    Blue Mage;
    Again this would be a solo-type sub I believe. You have very little MP, a restriction on the spells you could use because you must equip them, and the damage from the spells would be significantly lower because it is based on Blue Magic skill. If you are afraid of killing yourself after a SAWS, Cocoon gives a large bonus to Defense, but again there are better subs out there.

    Nothing to really add to the Thief job at all. At level 5 Corsair you gain access to Corsair's Roll which gives an experience points bonus to all PT members in range, but is also dependant on the number that you roll. I guess you could see this as a way to boost exp/hr in a less than stellar party, but it doesn't offer anything past that.

    This one may be a sensitive subject since a lot of people enjoy the Puppetmaster job, but others think it is totally useless.
    First, you will need to equip your Automaton with different Attachments for it to gain any abilities. You have to activate these attachments using the Animator item, which menas you are not able to use any kind of ranged weapon. Already the Puppetmaster is not turning out to be a very good sub.
    Many people have said that Puppetmaster sub could be used for skilling up weapons, but for Thieves, Ninja can do that just as well if not better. A Thief's evasion combined with the shadows from Utsusemi and status bolts make soloing easy so the Automaton does not have much of an advantage over a large MP pool with the correct attachments.

    That is all I have for now at least. Any new feedback is apperciated.
    Last edited by Tokitoki; 07-27-2007, 04:54 AM. Reason: Some spelling and grammar

    Warrior TP Warrior WS

  • #2
    I strongly agree with everything said here and I think this should be stickied!


    • #3
      Why thank you ^^

      Warrior TP Warrior WS


      • #4
        There are 4 subjobs max for thief.
        Ninja- Best, Utsusemi will save your life. And tp gain is fast.
        WAR.SAM- Either is good, Sam specially for TP gain, every 3 min for medittate.
        RNG- Not very good but we do have C- in Archery and C+ in marksmanship.


        • #5
          I like it except for some parts, like the small stuff...gj.

          Dra Bmyhad Ec Toehk - FF7
          Final Fantasy XI - Zandria


          • #6
            If you ahve suggestions for editing, please feel free to say them John^^

            PS: Bump

            Warrior TP Warrior WS


            • #7
              Nicely said about the Monk section, many under estimate /monk before level 33 and the passive abilites of it.

              Although VIT doesn't improve your defence considerably for subbing and getting hit when pulling it sort of helps. I mean any job level 15ish is still about the same inless you have really good equipment/race. Taru = die in other words =p.

              Blackmage -- No idiot would use this in a PT lol. I mean come on, getting to use 2-3 stones before you have to rest and get rid of the TP you need? NOPE! Well said D;/

              Ranger; I personally only use this for things such as NM hunts, but it does give a nice AGI boost and you will be able to use those Bow and Marksmenship WS . Wide Scan could be used to make pulling easier, but only when you ahve a wide range area that you have to pull from. This could also be used to land some kind of effect arrows/bolts, if used in conjunction with Sharpshot. Not a bad sub, just not one of my choices.
              Anyways, becuase i've used this ..thought I would say something. Full Rng sub as well. My Marksmenship is 2-3 off from cap btw and I dont use bow with Thief. Anyways, dont use /Ranger sub without your cap maxed and switched to acc gear before shooting. Acc gear ++++++ for barrage as well. If you do use xbow, switch between differen't usefull bolts after hitting. Sometimes you wont notice a difference, but it may stick every once in awhile. Try not to sub /rng inless you have reallllly good ACC gear with you, dont use if your going to fight some high envasion mob.

              Nice job though Toki.
              Dra Bmyhad Ec Toehk - FF7
              Final Fantasy XI - Zandria


              • #8
                Thank you, i have added your information to the main post, credited to you of course ^^

                Warrior TP Warrior WS


                • #9
                  You left off a few keys things from the rng sub. It isn't just a ranged weapon boost, you also get some very nice accu+ to your daggers that should be considered.
                  Check here for more detailed info comparing war, nin, and rng sub.

                  I noticed you pointed out quite a few pre 30 subs, but left off one most don't consider. Subbing brd pre30 for melees works much better than most realize when you consider most of the other subs don't offer useful abilities until 30+. Considering the stats are going to be nearlly the same with any full lvled sub you can ignore that and focus on the abilities. While limited to one song and no intrusment you can still do a constant free paon at same strength as a full brd to help with all those gobs in valkurm and crab aoes that do minor dmg. Then for 22-30 you can do blade madrigal for +15 accu for your entire party (verus +19 and ~20 seconds longer from a main bard with +2 intrsument). You might also consider throwing in a minuet, while it won't be near that of a full brd's, its better than nothing when you consider how melee heavy most of those parties are and you don't have access to berserk yet from war sub.
                  Whm 75 Blm 37 Brd 75 | Bastok Rank 10 | Whm > Rdm


                  • #10
                    the problem is the songs dont last nearly as long, arent as effective, and the Paeon wouldnt help much. I say this because ive PLAYED BRD. The paeon is only really useful at the end of teh abttle for melees to save tp, but even then it wouldnt recover them much since it wont alst as long. The debuffs from the BRD songs wouldnt stick, and the atk bonus gained from a minuet wouldnt be enough to help.

                    Warrior TP Warrior WS


                    • #11
                      The songs last 2 minutes whether subbed or not. +1 and +2 instruments add ~15 and ~30 seconds respectively. I went and retested this on my monk right now just to double check. Paon lasted 2 min as mnk/brd and then I switched to my 52 brd main who doesn't get paon intrsument until 60, paon 1-4 all lasted only 2 min. Repeated tests for minuet and got the same results, always 2 min whether subbed or not and when not using matching instrument as main brd.
                      The paeon is only really useful at the end of teh abttle for melees to save tp, but even then it wouldnt recover them much since it wont alst as long.
                      You should be able to sing it once as the pull comes in and again immidiately after the fight is over which would allow it to be on non-stop. No fight at that low of lvl should take more than 2 min either. Also, consider all the aoe's you face and everyone tends to have at least a little dmg in those parties, thus nearly everyone would be getting healed. So paon is 1 hp per 3 sec, that's 40 hp from one song in 20 min. 40 hp x 6 party members = 240 hp cured for free every 2 min. At those lvls, that is a big downtime cut. What other sub pre 30 can make that kind of difference?

                      On top of that, for 22-29 you can do sword madrigal for your whole party, you can't tell me +15 accu for 3-4 melees is nothing at that lvl (its same as full brd's Madrigal because they don't have the intrusment avaiable until ~32 if I remember right which gives +4 additional accu).
                      The debuffs from the BRD songs wouldnt stick, and the atk bonus gained from a minuet wouldnt be enough to help.
                      Brd debuffs blow already before they get finale and elegy, so that doesn't really matter. The +atk you would get from minuet, while smaller than that of a full brd is still much greater than the +0 you get from every other sub until berserk from war sub at 30+. On top of that, it is for your entire party (usually melee heavy at that lvl) so you can multiply the effect x 3-4.
                      Whm 75 Blm 37 Brd 75 | Bastok Rank 10 | Whm > Rdm


                      • #12
                        Why is thf/brd getting positives here? ...>.>
                        Dra Bmyhad Ec Toehk - FF7
                        Final Fantasy XI - Zandria


                        • #13
                          Why is thf/brd getting positives here? ...>.>
                          Why not? What are the other subs offering for pre30 that can compare to paon, minuet, or madrigal?

                          War gets provoke, but most parties already have a surplus of vokers for 1-30. You also get def boost at 20/10, but thf's tanking days are over by this point hopefully.

                          Mnk gets counter, but again thf won't hopefully be tanking, so this is a waste. Martial arts only really helps a thf using hth instead of swd or dag, which isn't very common and the boost from martial arts at this lvl is small.

                          Nin doesn't get dw1 until 20/10, and even then a slightly faster tp rate isn't very needed 20-30 considering most pick up parties won't be sc to any kind of effectiveness. While dw1 is a benefit, I personally feel the slight haste is outperformed by paon, minuet, or madrigal. Compare your tp gain with dw1 to the tp gain for your entire party by using madrigal with brd sub and giving your whole party +15 accu. Who is going to get tp faster? At 24thf/12nin gets its blink, (if the thf can even afford it at this lvl), yet this really isn't that important for pulling in qufim or kazham as these are easy zones to pull in and mobs don't hit thfs very hard yet.

                          The only job with any real advantage for thf pre 30 that I can see are nin and brd, and comparing those 2 at that lvl brd outperforms nin going off the reasons in my earlier post. I look foward to your reasons for why subbing brd would be less effective than subbing war, nin, or mnk at pre 30.
                          Whm 75 Blm 37 Brd 75 | Bastok Rank 10 | Whm > Rdm


                          • #14
                            ok hold on lets think about this again... What will paeon do against any of these mobs... itll recover 1 HP every tick, the mobs hit for 30ish at that lvl... hmm...

                            Minuet is easily outdone by food, but now youlll sya, "stack them," yes lets stack them... wow 5 more atk >.> thatll add a whole 0 DMG to your attacks

                            Madrigal isnt til 22 THF, and supposedly +15 acc.... how do you know you get +15 acc in the first place, not only that, but the songs are dumbed down more than you could think. There is a reason BRD dont "Sing" they only use instruments. (Area spans, +'s, etc) this would let you land a whole hit or 2 more because even with BRD main, +15 acc is A LOT, and youd realize that if you are a melee. +15 acc would be like me wearing a Scorpharness and a Sniper... Using a sharness and a sniper at lv 11(or 22 in this case) would make you hit 9/10 swings of your weapon, which is definitely not the cases.

                            Then LOOK! you get Paeon II at lv 30... theres 2 HP per tick and you are now gimp because it offers no good boosts to THF.

                            You attacked THF/MNK... first of all you wouldnt USE THF/MNK unless you plan on use H2H, if you use dagger pre-30(which is just plain stupid) or sword pre-30, youd use WAR sub and get more STR.

                            THF/NIN, first of all the person has to at least have a 30 job lv to get the NIN job, which means they have some way to make money. What happens when you acidently run into a wight and he starts attacking on your way back from a pull. You have Utsusemi to back you up and give you more time to a) zone b) get teh mob to your PT and run off to keep the Wight from aggroing the rest of your PT. And also, at this lvl you dont have sufficient tanks. Nins cant hold hate that well because of the long cast on Ninjutsu and the minimal hate coming from the spells they are casting. PLD only have some cures, shield bash, and provoke from war sub. THF uses Sneak Attack to Fast Blade say... that WILL pull the hate off the tank. BUT WAIT! The THF wont get hit because he has Utsusemi up and that gives the PLD/NIN/WAR/whatever more time to get hate back.

                            Warrior TP Warrior WS


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rones
                              The only job with any real advantage for thf pre 30 that I can see are nin and brd, and comparing those 2 at that lvl brd outperforms nin going off the reasons in my earlier post. I look foward to your reasons for why subbing brd would be less effective than subbing war, nin, or mnk at pre 30.
                              Okay...i've seen a 15thf/brd before, she used a dagger. HOW LAME IS THAT. I mean..she still sung..but that's just lame to your PT. HP + is the only good song you can use sub till 20, attack and defense aren't worth it and are crap. Get over it, thf/brd sucks for PTs.
                              Dra Bmyhad Ec Toehk - FF7
                              Final Fantasy XI - Zandria