RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Re: Byakko

If you seriously think a 1-2 minute fight at the cost of a seldom used 2hour (outside of solo's/fun/chainstun) is a waste of time and not worth it to anyone then I am at a loss. [...] Seriously man, how many other ways can you make that much money/time.

Don't forget to figure in the time needed to gather, go to Sky, and travel to Byakko's Island.

You can go for this Chainspell based 6/6 setup for a single run of 2 minute Byakko with no Treasure Hunter, or you can go for a no SP usage 6/6 setup which can bring up to 6 pop sets with Treasure Hunter.

Of course, a set up like PLD/NIN, PLD/NIN, THF/DRK, BRD/BLM, RDM/DRK, WHM/DRK will take ~20 min to kill at Lv.75, but the ability to use up to six pop set will per run will net you greater profit, wouldn't it?

At Lv.80/85, Elegy will land a lot easier and PLD won't be hit as hard, so PLD/NIN x2, THF/DRK, BRD/WHM, COR/WHM, RDM/DRK will probably be safe enough and kill a bit faster. Of course, if the Empyrean legs +2's with Haste+ turn out easy to get for the jobs which currently use Byakko, the issue is moot.

Still, the point stands: efficiency wise, a single pop Byakko run based on everyone using SP is not going to beat a slower-kill setup that can do up to six pops in a row.

But then again Aquaviel's -25% interrupt is cool shit too.

Aquaveil is 100% interrupt down now, for a set number of times hit. (Not sure about the exact numbers or if it's influenced by Enhancing Magic skill; I assume when it wears off on a hit, that meant it's used up.)

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

What me and Icemage are trying to say isn't that you couldn't, technically, do some of the lower abyssea mobs (mangy tailed marvin, Tier 2 VNM's, etc.) but that, your not doing it the fastest, safest, least rescource intensive way possible. It's just not a worth while combo, and I don't see it going that way either.

Wow isn't that ideal, I am surprised that the best way is the only way. How silly of me. I completely ignored that fact in all my conclusions. More so I seemed to have ignored mentioning that it wasn't ideal, it was a stop gap, well I am so sorry.

K guys it isn't Ideal, and not as good as getting a PLD, it isn't practical but it is possible.....Oh shit I said that in my first post, my fourth post, and several more times.

I know its not ideal, I know its not fastest, it has been said, and outside the "its not ideal" card what is wrong with it? Is there anything wrong with it? Ive asked the same question several times now and all I get is crap answer is like its not PLD/NIN, Its not what RDM/NIN was. You think people can't determine at this point in the game what is a good target and what isn't? How many new people do you think come through here every day. I mean seriously.

And be reasonable, for christ sake

If you only have 6 people and no one has PLD, and you guys want to do kulkankulan (peiste NM in konsctat aby) you ,on rdm/blu, are going to get destroyed, unless you pull him up the hill and bounce hate, kite him through/around the trees.

The damn thing has almost 100% triple attack,with ridiculous poison that can't be removed(outside of spamming multiple antidotes) that ticks for 100. It has two different gaze attacks that fuck your shit up, Hell PLD/NIN don't even straight tank this thing. They run around like little girls kiting it. Come on dude seriously this is your example of RDM/BLU getting destroyed. NO SHIT. the same 6 with a PLD instead would get destroyed if they decided to straight tank it christ. Have you even fought this NM? or did you just randomly go down the list of NM's and say heh this one will crush a RDM/BLU im going to use it as an example.

Moral of the story: Numbers don't mean squat if you can't pull it all together consistently in actual gameplay.

Like you have any right to discuss Moral of the story Mr. Aquaviel gives -25% Interrupt, Mr. RDM can't get 700DEF and -50%PDT. Your outrageous falsehoods and lack of general understanding of numbers and game play doesn't mean squat to anyone who can read, can add, and write a simple macro.


What information do you have that suggest this wouldn't work Icemage? Outside of the falsehoods you have already poisoned this thread with. Outside the "its not the best so it doesn't work" cookie cutter mentality?. Do you have any numbers to combat my numbers with or hypothetical what ifs. Since this is about numbers on a website discussion forum, where are you numbers showing this doesn't work. Hell you haven't even provided anything outside of false info and ridiculous comments like "making a few hundred K to a few mil in 1-2 minutes of fighting is a waste of time".

Ive provided a list of events this can take place, any low man situation or anything a PLD/WAR can tank. If that doesn't provide you with a long enough list of targets than I don't know what else to say to you, wan't a list of NM's this could work on.

Notorious Monsters: Level Guide - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more

there ya go, now when you decide to go to a fight and check on the mob, and see, PLD/NIN highly recommended that means this RDM/BLU probably won't d the trick. But for every one mob where shadows are essential there are 2 that they just make life easier. Bu since this "its not ideal" was covered by me in the very first post, then your redundant statement remains redundant.

I don't have time to respond to your drivel anymore Icemage, unlike several others who have expressed criticisms through valid statements (lol @ aquaviel still), and others who have expressed them through over the top "this is why it will fail" responses (Wishmasters MP consumption, and Shepereds comparison to a PLD/NIN kiting kulkankulan). There have been a few legitimate rebutles i have covered, the DMG issue, the casting issue and the hate issue. Outside of that what else is there to discuss. Other than your preconceived notion that if it isn't ideal it doesn't work.

Hell RDM/NIN wasn't ever considered Ideal and it became the best tank in the game. We used think BRD's were a waste of a party slot, we used to think ATK+STR was better than haste. I can go on and on and on about things that weren't ideal that were later proven to be highly useful if not Idea in their own right. This game is built on exploring the non-ideal, and is perfected in tweaking those non ideals. You think having 7 SMN's stand around AFing Alex is and Ideal solution to AV, it works doesn't it, but is it Ideal no. Then again you also think makin a few hundred K to a few mil in a few minutes of fighting and 20 minutes of running isn't ideal to so ya.

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

Aquaveil is 100% interrupt down now, for a set number of times hit. (Not sure about the exact numbers or if it's influenced by Enhancing Magic skill; I assume when it wears off on a hit, that meant it's used up.)

I know this, but Icemage didn't apparantly, just like a lot of other things he seems oblivios to.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

I'm not even going to respond to that ridiculous wall of text. If you think it'll work, no one here is stopping you. Go get the gear and try it out, and come back with some proof if it really works as well as you think it does. If you're not going to do it, then what's the point? There's a lot of ways to do pointless navel-gazing, and arguing over semantics when you haven't bothered to actually test any of your ideas is incredibly narcissistic.

What do you want from us, a medal? If your goal is to go out and impress people with how awesome RDMs really are - then go out and do it. There's a bunch of people out there who do so all the time; do you think they give a flying fig what anyone here or on other forums say about what they do? I doubt it.

This "theoretically all the pieces work" BS doesn't win you any friends and influences no one. It certainly doesn't earn you any respect. If you want any of the latter, put up or shut up.

And that's the last I'll say on this topic.


Icemage

[ShepardG]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Wow isn't that ideal, I am surprised that the best way is the only way. How silly of me. I completely ignored that fact in all my conclusions. More so I seemed to have ignored mentioning that it wasn't ideal, it was a stop gap, well I am so sorry.

I can chop down a tree with a swiss army knife but i'd much rather use an ax dude, if you have rdm @ 85 and your killing anything that you could "tank" on rdm/blu your better off dot/nuke kiting it. Nobody said you couldn't do it. We all just said you were dumb if you did. It's your game, no doubt, play it how you want but were making it a point to let newer players understand that there are better ways to go about your business.

The damn thing has almost 100% triple attack,with ridiculous poison that can't be removed(outside of spamming multiple antidotes) that ticks for 100. It has two different gaze attacks that fuck your shit up, Hell PLD/NIN don't even straight tank this thing. They run around like little girls kiting it. Come on dude seriously this is your example of RDM/BLU getting destroyed. NO SHIT. the same 6 with a PLD instead would get destroyed if they decided to straight tank it christ. Have you even fought this NM? or did you just randomly go down the list of NM's and say heh this one will crush a RDM/BLU im going to use it as an example.

Asshole.

So your not trying to kill NM's this high, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TRYING TO FIGHT? give us some examples peabody, cause i can't think of anything worth worrying about straight tanking, that you couldn't kite better than you could straight tank on rdm/blu.

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

awww nice emote you mad brah because I said your example is meaningless. Oh its ok to be a little upset when you use and example of a mob no one blood tanks or even straight tanks period, in a discussion about about blood tanking on low man and non crazy nm's. You certainly are a Winar!.

[Vyuru]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

The damn thing has almost 100% triple attack,with ridiculous poison that can't be removed(outside of spamming multiple antidotes) that ticks for 100. It has two different gaze attacks that fuck your shit up, Hell PLD/NIN don't even straight tank this thing. They run around like little girls kiting it. Come on dude seriously this is your example of RDM/BLU getting destroyed. NO SHIT. the same 6 with a PLD instead would get destroyed if they decided to straight tank it christ. Have you even fought this NM? or did you just randomly go down the list of NM's and say heh this one will crush a RDM/BLU im going to use it as an example.

Oddly enough we had ONE Pld tank straight tank this NM just the other night in my LS. I know for the exp aspect of it our Pld went Pld/War, I don't know if she was Pld/War or Pld/Nin for it.

We had a fairly balanced party setup, couple people on mage jobs, some melee, one tank. We were there for NMs/Seals and to exp afterwards.

I also don't remember any issues, we had no deaths with that NM. No two hours were used to my knowledge either.

You sir, do NOT know what the heck you are talking about with that NM in particular. I'm actually having a really good laugh at you right now. Maybe you need more experience with the NM.

[Raydeus]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Oi Shepard, is it just me or your screen ratio config is off? o.O

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Hmm. Kukulkan was actually pretty nasty at Lv.80. We didn't straight-tank; we backward tanked.

Worked OK until 30%, when both PLDs went down. Then, kited the rest (after it had regen'ed quite a bit. lol.)

We should be able to tank it much better next time, with that experience under our belt. Not entirely sure if I'd want to face-to-face and toe-to-toe, though; the TP moves are nasty enough that I don't really want to feed extra TP.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

This was a fun distraction for a while, but now it's just sad.

Fraps us a video of it working and I'll apologize. Since you're convinced it'll work, go try it. People said that a RDM75 couldn't melee solo Hurricane Wyverns and that was proven wrong (I've done it multiple times. It was really just a bunch of baseless butthurt over their very weak-sauce Paralyze JA).

Hell, there was a bunch of shit we thought impossible before Apple Pie started posting and he changed the world of RDM soloing.

Numbers and speculative work help for just speculating! Until it is done, so be it. Hell, we had a thread here Over 9000 years ago about a RDM who built a static around him tanking as a RDM/WAR. Yeah so what he was level ~50 and was getting like 4k an hour back in 2006? At the end of the thread, we were more impressed with the fact that there was an air of humility at the end of it all. We enjoyed the experience, took away from it some fond memories, and grew as a community. "RDM/WAR tanking is fun and exhausting and nerve-wracking, but it can be done, and we didn't have to seek for a tank."

You seem to only concede on points by being sarcastic and aggressively defensive, only wanting to hear someone wholeheartedly agree. This has escalated into a very entertaining flame wall, but the respect I have for celebrated and consistent contributors to the RDM community (such as Icemage) far outranks how amused I am at your inane responses.

Please grow a spine, grow some balls, and go out there, get the gear and prove us all wrong.

Or just please grow up.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Please grow a spine, grow some balls, and go out there, get the gear and prove us all wrong.

Or just please grow up.

lol. The gauntlet has been thrown.

I second this.

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

You seem to only concede on points by being sarcastic and aggressively defensive, only wanting to hear someone wholeheartedly agree. This has escalated into a very entertaining flame wall, but the respect I have for celebrated and consistent contributors to the RDM community (such as Icemage) far outranks how amused I am at your inane responses.

I don't care if people don't agree with it being a fully effectiv tool. Hell I even said it was of minor use in fun situations and on a night with out a PLD, and further explained it in situations in low man or areas where a PLD/WAR could succeed it could succeed. I have no issue with people thinking its not as good as a PLD/NIN cuz it isn't. I have no issue if you think it isn't good for an endgame LS to use, cuz its probably not since they have more than 1 PLD to call on, and have graduated beyond the silly shit this could take on. I never said it was going to tank HNM's I simply said many NM's out level and below.

Take that as you will. Where I will become sarcastic is when people like Ice Mage who should know better than to post false information if he is such a great contributer to this community, BBQ leaving is unexplained comments, and your weird sense of what a RDM should have to do when it is tanking, leave such retarded posts as, Aquaviel is -25% reduction, things that only tickle PLD's, and a RDM needs to buff/debuff/cure/and use hat spells.

Silly things like that are just stupid to put. You are a PLD tank you know that you don't haste yourself, or debuff the mob, and wouldn't if you could. You MP is better spent elsewhere. Anyone who reads the patch notes know Aquaviel was changed, and anyone who spends 10 minutes looking of gear options for a RDM knows it can take serious punishment with taking little damage.

Outside those 3 ridiculous statements I have agreed with most else that has been said, I have agreed with its situational usefulness, and its more often than not uselessness. I have agreed it can't tank like a RDM/NIN could, or a PLD/NIN can. I was the first one to say that. I was also the first one to say that it could likely tank anything save for the biggest and badest NM's. Which includes a handful of "Old" Endgame mobs, and a lot of new abyssea mobs. As well as afew ZNM and VNM mobs. Its not my responsibility to inform people on ever single potential fight it can work it. I don't have 10 hours to look at all the relevant material regarding the fights. I don't have time to read about what PLD's were using and why. That is for other people to do if they are interested. I don't hold people by the hand, i point them in a direction and let them figure it out for themselves.

But i agree with most that was said, but when the herd of sheep come through the door and keep making the same stupid comments that Icemage and BBQ and yourself made back on page 1 and 2, that fit your personal belief it is ridiculous. A RDM can equip all that gear, it doesn't take much damage at all, it shouln't have to buff itself in a tanking role, and AQUAVIEL does not redue interrupt by a static -25% anymore.

If these are the leading minds this community has to offer, boy id hate to pull up some old threads. Im sure there is some funny ones though like LOLing at wearing dusk gear to cast in, or something like that. Of all the ffxi RDM communities this one has to be the most ridiculous head in ass community of them all. There hasn't been any updates on anything in nearly 2 years. Its laughable, and the "leading" contributor doesn't even know what kind of gear we can equip or what our spells do. Huzzzzah for the lolRDM community of FFXIonline.com

[Mhurron]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Taking all bets, I got 100:1 odds against Magoo ever putting his money where his mouth is.

[Vyuru]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

Aye, and he ignores my posts pointing out the difficulty of rdm/blu tanking once hate is lost, however briefly that may be, and the fact that Kukulkan is in fact straight Pld tankable, we did it last night.

Sure, you can try to cure for hate back, but dunno if that's going to work and more likely than not you may have a dead DD there.

[Murphie]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

He also completely ignored Icemage's last post calling him out, because, surprise, he has nothing to back his shit up with.

[MrMageo]

Re: RDM/BLU tanking, the new RDM tank bleeds blood

oooo more sheep. I already said I don't plan on doing this, way back on page 1. I won't b doing it because my LS has 8 people on at most, and I prefer to just solo things. I tend to not enjoy wasting my time dealing with other people including shell mates because people are more or less generally stupid.

I have provided the information of tools, and a rough how to, if anyone is interested in doing it they can figure it, evryone else that doesn't give a shit won't.

Icemage doesn't get a resonse from me because Ice Mage is an idiot, who doesn't know what the job in question can wear, use, or how its spells work. Its not the first time he has submitted false information into a thread an I am sure it won't be his last.