Some NIN/RNG logs (long)

[stray]

...I'm only 54 but teetering on 55 and I gotta say... Shurikens suck. At least the ones I've tried to this point... mostly while I was actually at lower levels where my throwing was capped. Most higher level Ninjas I've heard from echo what Mitsu said... they're just not viable.

As far as textbook... I don't see where exactly in the Ninja storyline there's a remote reference to a ranged attacking nin. "The way of the Katana" I think Enetsu and Kaede refer to it when you first unlock the job. Granted Yagudo Ninja like to spam shurikens but they also single wield and can't hit the side of a barn with one.

Not to sound cliche... but Ninja has best in game evade and parry, utsusemi 1 and 2, along with being the only class able to use 1h katanas. with really sickening accuracy I might add at least to the levels I'm at. Double Attack is by far the best complement to Dual Wield imaginable post 50. And I didn't mention provoke or Berserk (or even double attack for that matter) but... while we're at it let's switch the topic to whether rng/nin or rng/war is better... considering Berserk does stack with ranged ws. This topic should really be in the ranger forum.

[Razz]

Any non NIN/WAR is....

GIMP!

PS: Ninja doesn't have the best evade in game. Thief does.

[laicram]

I know the scope of this topic is greater than Nin 1-37, but I'm convinced by the data so far, that a gun-toting Nin/Rng is a competitive DD in this range.

I intend to lvl Nin to 37. It's good to know that I can be a tank or buff DD, switching to either role as needed. I enjoy versatility - which to me, means faster leveling.

On equipment, I wouldn't be surprised if more guns (post lvl42) were offered to NIN in later patches.

[hocuspocus]

Spider-Dan just doesn't want to tank; we have already proved that in multiple threads before this one. Not sure if he is afraid, incapable, or just flat out retarded.

He went through all this trouble just to try and sidetrack us all from the fact that he doesn't want to tank, most likely because people would laugh at him. He is trying to justify all this nonsense in his head so he will feel a bit better about spending his 13$ a month. Its ok danny-boy there is still hope for you yet.

If you're not blink tanking by Level 37, do us all a favor; quit the game and then life.

nin/rng sucks.

[John Doe III]

Aside from all the flaming crap that's going on. Thanks for the nin/rng info, may try this out with my Ninja before it get's too high.l

[Madden]

In a xp PT Nin/War is the only good option no matter what anyone trying to say.
At 75 you got many subs you can use for diffrent things.

[ibroyles]

All of you people saying NIN/RNG is gimp and whatnot is really not making you look very strategically inclined in this game. Obviously, Spider Dan backed up his points with logs to prove that NIN/RNG is a capable damage dealers in the levels he provided logs for. I mean, I'm only LV30 and I can see obvious benefits to this job/subjob combination during the levels he provided for. Furthermore, you are just saying "NIN/RNG GIMP" when other people have provided better commentary on WHY NIN/RNG doesn't work at higher levels(thank you Narru for the well thought out posts). If you think LV30 minus doesn't really matter, then why are you arguing so fervently that NIN/WAR is the only way to go at these levels? I have been in many parties without a NIN tank during these levels, and I can honestly say that a damage dealer such as NIN/RNG would greatly benefit some of the parties I've been in(the kind of parties that can't chain for the life of them). There is an abundance of capable tanks at these levels, because of people leveling WAR for subjobs, as well as the standard WAR, PLD and NIN tanks. The presence of an extra damage dealer in these scenarios(especially one that outputs up to 2 times as much damage) is not to be taken lightly.

As my last point I would like to point out that I am leveling NIN right now, but I AM going to go NIN/WAR, and form dual NIN parties with a friend who is leveling at the same time. If I didn't have this capability, I might actually try to go NIN/RNG because of the difficulty in tanking with NIN at lower levels. Why can't you people just take these points on their merits instead of continually bashing them? It makes you look like you can't comprehend that different roles can be played by the same class(especially at lower levels).

[Kesai]

There is no difficulty tanking as nin in lower lvl's just buy the right +evade gear (not that chain stuff I see all these low lvl nin's wear in the jungle).

[ibroyles]

Listen I know about the gear, I already have all the gear I am going to need. I am saying that if you get in a party with incompetant people (say somebody that doesn't know that you might need a safety provoke every now and then) it will be a pain. Things don't always work out as planned when fighting at a place like Qufim or Yuhtunga with all the newbs being party leaders. The other day I saw a party where the WHM used Benediction and there was a PLD with 2HR ready but didn't use it to cancel out hate, the WHM died, THEN the PLD used 2HR. Idiotic things like this happen all the time. When you are at 37+ with Ninja you are much more well equipped to handle the situation(i.e. you will never need a backup provoke). That's all I'm saying is that at lower levels, classes have different possibilites. Look at how many classes can be an effective backup tank at low levels(MNK, sometimes THF), due to relatively the same armor and only a couple of VIT points difference.

EDIT: Another thing as well. There's such a thing called a voke-happy n00b warrior that seems to be in abundance right now. Good luck having the hate at least 1/2 the time with one of these guys in your party. IMO, getting through Qufim, Kazham, etc is more of a matter of getting lucky and just getting through it(unless you have a SP) than worrying about if your role is precisely thought out. Because somebody in that party will come by and fuck your role in the ass.

[John Doe III]

Um, wtf? Who cares if the Ninja doesn't sub Warrior before level 37. Half the Ninja's out there just put on regular equip anyways, no envasion or anything like that.

Let someone use /rng if they at least deal damage ..or try to. Or have acc equipment to go with it. How the &%$% do you know. Lower level, anything is damage. Battles go so fast and people die so fast.

[DrSerpico]

Jayzus.

Shame on you people.

Dan tries out something new, and you start sharpening your stakes and bringing forth the pitchfork? Silly witchhunters.

If you're not blink tanking by Level 37, do us all a favor; quit the game and then life.

Did anyone tell you anytime during your playing career in FFXI:
Play the way that I decide for you, or go kill yourself?

That's basically what you're saying. Jumping on the "bash-dan-into-pieces" bandwagon, toting hardcore remarks. I find it sickening.

Here's what dan did:
Proved that ninja can fill a DD spot, non tanking, and be VERY good at it. This is albeit for a limited level range, but as he himself said, he'll keep trying, and keep record of the logs.

Instead of 526 people telling him that he's playing a gimp rng, or anything but nin/war sucks, enjoy seeing how far this variety can be taken. Where does it stop being viable? lvl40? lvl50?

And since he outdamaged most DD vastly, in this case, for the type of role he's supposed to fill, I'd say that anything but nin/RNG would suck.

The constraints for the argument is Nin/X job combination, all the "This is gimp rng omglol noobzors/play rng instead" crap is VOID.

Second constraint, DD role. All "Anything but nin/war is gimp, because you can't hold hate/tank/walk the dog/yada yada" is VOID.

What we are looking at is the Ninja's ability to do damage, and the amplification of said ability through diverse subjobs. Sofar, Dan has proven that /rng subjob provides him with up to 2 times the damage of other DD in his party.

Which part of this DOES NOT COMPUTE for you nay-sayers?
Jayzus, I thought my skull was thick....

[Rekiem]

The whole problem with this whole DD log NIN/RNG thing is that its only effective at low levels. I mean seriously, what happen at those level is totally irrevelent in this game, you can pass it under less than a week.

If youre going to spent as much money on ammo like a Ranger, buy the same equipment, the same tools and have the same role in a PT but only end up being a gimped RNG, then its not worth taking as a full time job combo. You might as well play Ranger don't you think? This combo is only for people like Spider-Dan who want to level their subjob without having to level WAR so they can be a NIN tank, nothing else. Spare me the debuff and other use role, thats total bullshit and you guys know it. NIN/RNG is just the exact same thing for the same price as a RNG/NIN, just less damage and overall effectiveness.

[Mitsu]

Hell, Im a lvl 75 Ninja and i dont like to tank. Even though im extremly good at it, just seems that tanking doesnt seem ninja-like to me. I restate, if S-E adds throw ws you will see alot more nin/rng for that added acc passives, its all about experimentation. Without that you will find that while you get to 75 nin you will still suck, you will not be able to solo those mobs that are somewhat non soloable. I dont have time to go into that atm, but to both sides...do not limit yourself to one job combo ><

[DrSerpico]

Clarification

Dear Rekiem
Allow me to once more try to reach your attentionspan:

The constraints for the argument is Nin/X job combination, all the "This is gimp rng omglol noobzors/play rng instead" crap is VOID.

It has been stated more than twice that playing rng instead will NOT give you levels/exp for nin job. Which part of this do you NOT understand after levelling a character to level 75?

We've acknowledged that rng main WILL produce higher damage. There is no doubt about it. Even tho that is nice and dandy, it isn't the point of this discussion!

I plead you to reread everything, and don't skip the posts that aren't yours!

[DM337]

Originally posted by Rekiem
The whole problem with this whole DD log NIN/RNG thing is that its only effective at low levels. I mean seriously, what happen at those level is totally irrevelent in this game, you can pass it under less than a week.

It seems to me that an alternate path to leveling NIN in the early levels can be quite important. Sure, the exp going from 1-37 is nothing compared to exp later in the game, but tell me this: How many people take NIN all the way to 75? Also, how many people just take NIN up to 37? I'm willing to bet a huge amount of people take NIN just up to 37 so they can get a bit more solo ability in the end game, or as a normal sub for their job. Finding an alternate way to level NIN in the 20s and 30s could influence a lot of the people just leveling it to sub, while the people who wish to take NIN to endgame as a tank can just ignore it.

Ok, so NIN/RNG is effective at low levels, what are you arguing about? Dan didn't come here and say 'OMG! NIN/RNG is t3h 1337z0r and better than NIN/WAR all the time omfglolz!' he provided logs that said NIN/RNG was effective at low levels. There are always a couple of topics in NIN forums about people whining about Blink tanking in these levels, and Dan gave them an alternative. (albeit a drastically more expensive one)