Jump as a ranged attack

[Gage77]

How exactly has he proved his knowledge? By having a high level Dragoon and yet still not contributing a valid arguement as to why this idea is not worthy of investigation? Interpreted in an intelligent way, Taodyn could be seen as one who doesn't surrender his idea to the first confliction of opinions. If your going to make someone seem like a retard back it up a little with something more then just a level. Any monkey can level a job up to 75 in time, does that mean he has higher authority over me or I should willingly bow before his awesome level? NO, It means they have played more. People who have actually learned something from leveling can then dangle that in front of my face once they have made a DECENT point over a debate.

Man 1: I have a neat idea and some valid points to prove it may be true! What do you think of this?

Man 2: ARGH! You stupid newb! That so stupid! No one cares about your ideas. I'm higher level then you so I'm more right! Forget me making an educated post and disproving this, my undoubtably superior knowledge of the job is more then enough!

Do I find Taodyn's idea interesting and worthwhile? Sure! If not only for the sake of knowing it would be something to prove and may be helpful in the future. If it's not worthwhile to you, so what? Don't barrage him with outlandish insults to belittle him and make it seem like you are the GOD OF THE DRAGOONS. You end up just seeming like a high level with his nose so damn high up in the air they can't even smell the stink of their own disgustingly idiotic posts.

Besides, do you HONESTLY think this game is done yet? That items won't be added later to make this experiment true? If your so close minded and negative about this job class' future, why did you level it at all? Moreover, why do you browse a forum about it offering little to no solid opinions at all.

[Weezingpipes]

Me and my staff would have shown you the door long ago. Although, apparently you are a bit of a troublemaker, I see you already have 8 warning points. Are you trying to start a collection? Here, I'll help

Clearly someone has some message board penis size issues. Get me more warning points, whine to the mods, I'll pretend to give a shit. The last time I had warning points given was months ago, and I certainly didn't lose sleep over it. I can't help it my tolerance for intense stupidity is low.

Same thing in this thread. I don't expect people to respect me on the basis of the level of the job I play. There are tons of high level newbs. However, I have posted here a while, and I guess some people respect my opinion on that basis. Unlike you, my virtual cock doesn't need to be stroked in order to feel important however.

I gave reasons to refute the points. I'm sorry he's too daft to understand them, because I thought they were pretty damn simple to understand. I fail to see why people need to be coddled.

P.S. Jump accuracy is the same as a melee hits' accuracy. If you played the job for a while, you'd see that. You could parse even and get similar results.

[Lone Dragon]

I didn't really read most of this topic after my last post here, mostly because I was afraid of losing brain cells.
I'll just say that I have to agree with pipes, you should just resign yourselves to the fact that nothing,
short of a massive retooling by SE developers, is going to make Dragoon better as a whole.


Please, just deal with it.

[Gage77]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes

Same thing in this thread. I don't expect people to respect me on the basis of the level of the job I play. There are tons of high level newbs. However, I have posted here a while, and I guess some people respect my opinion on that basis. Unlike you, my virtual cock doesn't need to be stroked in order to feel important however.

Clearly you must have gone pretty far down hill from the days of offering polite advice, Weezing. From what I can see, your a person who just loves taking the easy way out and disregard anything that may be open for discussion that you don't like rather then argue intelligently. On top of that you come in and begin flaming the person from which the idea spawned. If by "reasons" you mean "utter nonsense", then yeah, you have given lots of reasons as to why this is pointless to try! I agree totally with Shauk, most other forums asses are banned without hesitation. I don't know what the hell is up with moderators here!

Once again, Taodyn has made valid points, they have yet to be disproved. Have you done this experiment? Probably not. Try to offer your opinion rather then let your fingers randomly hit keys and hope the words form an arguement that makes sense.

Lone Dragon, unless you actually had a hand in the development of FFXI I suggest you deal with the fact that everything may not have been discovered yet. Perhaps YOU should resign yourself from the fact you don't know everything about this game and most likely never will even come close.

[Shauk]

Weezing, your response, is laughable at best.

Wow, I mean, WOW, thats the best you could do? You sound like a republican sitting there addressing NON ISSUES and beating around the bush.

My authority here isn't in question. Oh yeah, while trying to insult me, try harder to come up with original material instead of stealing it from somethingawful.com
(and yes, http://somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1220
theres your reference, smartass.)

Again, the issue here, is your attitude, not the validity of Taodyn's question. You can sit there and attack my "epenis", attack Taodyn's question, attack everything but the issue that you are straight up wrong about how you present yourself in this issue. Seriously, you can't even look at yourself and think "gee, I could have been just a little bit nicer instead of biting his head off for a question?"

Just THINK before you type, its not that hard.

[Taodyn]

Though I said I wouldn't post again, I can't seem to help myself.

Never once did I say that I was trying to make jump an uber attack or that I was trying to redefine our role as the ultimate puller. These were all assumptions on your parts (and you know what they say about assumptions). Quite frankly, I simply wanted to find the best way to increase Jump attack accuracy so it wouldn't miss as often. It's an extra attack and offers both dmg and tp increase when it lands. Why wouldn't I want to boost it's rate of hitting if it didn't sacrifice other stats? These are abilities that every DRG uses. Why would anyone not try to use them to their full potential?

So let's see... stat boost that can by no means hurt me, could give more dmg and more tp leading to more frequent WS and making me a better pt member. Yeah, I can see how trying to improve my play could be considered "retarded." The question was a simple matter of which would increase the rate of jump attacks hitting, DEX or AGI. I never asked to unnerf DRG. Nope. I never said it would fix the job. Nope. I never even said it would make a significant difference. Nope.

The really sad part of all this is the fact that all these "retarded" claims you address are ones you guys brought up. That's called a Straw Man Fallacy. You attempt to argue someone else's point by misrepresenting it (ie. you set it up one way so your side sounds better). But that only shows your own lack of understanding of the issue at hand and your own inability to argue the actual points offered.

Now you can go on saying the question was "retarded." Go right ahead. But you should realize that everyone who actually reads the posts will realize that the only "retarded" things said here were your responses. You made assumptions that reflect your own mindset here. All of these points you people have brought up (save those people who actually offered sound information) were never even mentioned by me. I have even said before that my intention was not to change the DRG class, but simply to ascertain the best way to use an ability to its full potential. Jump allows DRG to inflict extra dmg (which is our role) and build extra tp for WS (also part of our role). Only a fool would suggest it is wrong to try and boost this ability just as every player attempts to boost their own abilities. You would not question a ranger boosting dex for melee, so why would you question a drg trying to slightly boost the hit rate of jump attacks? Would you question a blm boosting MND if it did not sacrifice INT? Or a whm boosting INT? No, but you have appointed yourselves masters of everything DRG and felt you deserved to judge me.

My advice: get over yourselves. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I accept that. I haven't argued with a single person who actually offered counterpoints to my ideas. Why would I? I didn't come here saying Jump was ranged. I asked if it was. The question, itself, implies that I am suggesting the possibility, but not certain of the answer. The only time I have argued was when people offered nothing, but heresy and flames. I thanked people that offered information even when they disagreed with me. It was only the childishness of a few that brought any argument.

Oh and Weezing, I did post that I meant no offense by what I said in my initial reply. Reading it again I can see the confusion, but my saying I meant no tone should have been good enough.

[Rainsford]

Well like Weezing said, as you get higher you can see your jump will land at the same rate as your melee attacks do, therefore jump is not ranged, as it is based on melee accuracy (if it WASENT, how would ANYONE land with it?)

The ultimate puller? White Mage makes a better puller then Dragoon. You should not pull, ever ever ever, unless the monster is 10 feet from your camp, DO NOT PULL.

And the fact is, the higher you get, there ISENT any gear that just tacs on ranged accuracy because its medium armor that drg and rng just happen to share. That's probablly why weezing responded the way he did. I mean, does it make sense saying that I can wear some gear that adds MP mean that dragoon can somehow use magic? Because I mean, some equipment gives mp!

Thats what it sounds like at least to me.

[hatey]

Weezing and Jayblah should take tips from Mithrael. Everytime Mithrael posts it's almost always informative. Not once have I seen him be insulting. And he's very knowledgable. Seems to me that Weezing is just bitter. I don't get why Weezing and Jayblah even post in this manner, it really does nothing but insult the poster.

[Taodyn]

Rainsford, your points were good. I admit I too think that jump is based on melee accuracy (ie. DEX), but the thought popped up and figured I'd check it out. You never know. I mean you say it lands at any level so it must be based on melee, but ranged accuracy also increases with level (ie. AGI also rises). Quite frankly, I do think you're right that melee is the key factor, but I figured why not try?

The point was not that they disagreed with me. I have no problem with that. My problem is with the way they voiced their disagreement. You can speak to someone you disagree with without acting superior or using offensive language. Too often these discussions spiral downward into a war of flames. It was not their disagreement that was an issue here, it was their disrespect.

[Weezingpipes]

Lone Dragon, unless you actually had a hand in the development of FFXI I suggest you deal with the fact that everything may not have been discovered yet. Perhaps YOU should resign yourself from the fact you don't know everything about this game and most likely never will even come close.

Often times players see the game quite differently than developers seeing as devs don't often get to see the finished result unless they personally play the game. It wouldn't surprise me if exactly 0 of the FFXI development team actually played the game, let alone with characters above level 60. Point being, you're incredibly naive if you believe mostly everything has not been discovered in a game thats been out over 2 years now in Japan right? And given circulation of information in the internet, there isn't exactly anything hidden from the north american player base as well. There are problems with the game that it is questionable when/if they will be fixed, mostly because S-E seems disinterested in player feedback.

Weezing, your response, is laughable at best.

Wow, I mean, WOW, thats the best you could do? You sound like a republican sitting there addressing NON ISSUES and beating around the bush.

My authority here isn't in question. Oh yeah, while trying to insult me, try harder to come up with original material instead of stealing it from somethingawful.com

Ahh the true mark of an american - using a label intending it to be an insult, even though its nothing more than a label. For reference, I've never actually read that website you linked to, let alone that article, but it was pretty funny none the less. But your words, they hurt so! I wasn't even trying to flame really, just wrote up a post, and clearly it bothered you enough. If nothing else that makes me chuckle.

[Shauk]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes


Often times players see the game quite differently than developers seeing as devs don't often get to see the finished result unless they personally play the game. It wouldn't surprise me if exactly 0 of the FFXI development team actually played the game, let alone with characters above level 60. Point being, you're incredibly naive if you believe mostly everything has not been discovered in a game thats been out over 2 years now in Japan right? And given circulation of information in the internet, there isn't exactly anything hidden from the north american player base as well. There are problems with the game that it is questionable when/if they will be fixed, mostly because S-E seems disinterested in player feedback.



Ahh the true mark of an american - using a label intending it to be an insult, even though its nothing more than a label. For reference, I've never actually read that website you linked to, let alone that article, but it was pretty funny none the less. But your words, they hurt so! I wasn't even trying to flame really, just wrote up a post, and clearly it bothered you enough. If nothing else that makes me chuckle.

heh, and in turn you use "american" as a label intended to insult.

Kettle = Black, Mr Pot.

Well at least I exposed you for what you are.

[Weezingpipes]

How american of you. Got me there.

[Lone Dragon]

"I heard my name. They're calling me again..."

Soooo if so much is undiscovered,
why do you think you have the answer to one of Drg's woes?
At least you're trying, huh?
Fighting the good fight, eh?
Willing to die for it, ya ponce?


Oh, btw...
"Well at least I exposed you for what you are."
That is some of the most self-righteous tripe I've ever heard and the sign
of a true idiot when applied to something as ridiculously and disgustingly trivial as this.
It's a fucking message board, not a murder trial, ya melodramatic douche.

Ego's are bruised, no one gets killed,
that's the entire point of the internet.

May the dick waving continue!

[Gage77]

Weezing, I give up. Your one of those people who will argue with a brick wall all day, and at the end of the day walk away from it thinking you've won. Your a moron if you think by making that statement about Americans it makes you any better by turning right around and using it yourself. Of course I wouldn't expect people who have been working on a game for X amount of years to go right back to it and actually play it for another X amount of years. All I was saying is that there is always the possibility that the developers will hide certain attributes that normal everyday players would not think to test. I will agree however on S-E seeming uniterested with player feedback. There are problems with the game.

No Lone Dragon, I never once said I have the answer to a DRG's woe. I'm not even the one doing the testing, I support it and have high hopes, but thats as far as it goes.
Also, stop trying to make it seem like he is pouring his entire essence into this. He is testing a theory, simple as that. No need to blow it out of proportion (although it already has been) like the way you are.

[Shauk]

It's easy being self righteous when you know you are correct.

End of the line.

Goodbye, thanks for tuning in.