Why are so many BLMs MBing Freeze?

[Tikki]

I've only been in one pt where it was more efficient for me to burst freeze at every chance. One. Most of the time it's just not worth it.... though I still get asked to. c.c

[Tsama]

This is just what I have noticed but Bursting with Freeze in the 50's isn't that bad. IMHO after the blm working on there macro and changing it for the party. If there MB misses it's the melees fault not there's.

Now freeze bursting in the 50's and 60's does kind of work. (I personally only do it every once in a while. For other reasons not MP.)

I am usually type of party. blm, whm, pld, rdm, thf, sam. 9 times out of 10 that's the kind of party I am in, so because of that Freeze bursting works out well. I always have enough MP. Another thing a lot of blm's forget is, that you don't have to stand up at the begining of a fight. To be honest. IMHO you shouldn't give your pld some time to make some more hate. It works out better. I only stand up before 500 MP in any party if I have to. (I.e. Escape or SC.) It's just not really needed for me to.

Now as far as -ga chaining I hate doing it. Most places that you will lvl aren't really clear from mob's so -ga bursting or -ga casting at all kind of doesn't work out really well. Unless you get a good camp spot. I know I am on seraph on of the smaller servers and that is a problem sometime. I can just imagine what it is like on the bigger servers.

Doing freeze for fights is wise at times. I mean in the party I explained I don't do anything. My usual thing is Shock, Burn, Frost. X2 then by then thf and sam are ready for chain. Freeze sit down. It doesn't really take us more then 45-1min 15 seconds for any fight.

It really isn't a bad idea. Now I will say if you have a pld that sucks at holding hate. Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. I have been in a party before where the pld for some reason. Either didn't know what it was, or just didn't like me. Wouldn't cover. (Let's just say he accidentally got warped by to his HP.) But if you have a pld that will cover. You are good. Just run behind them before the chain and go.


Well that's what I have observed.

[Tsama]

This is just what I have noticed but Bursting with Freeze in the 50's isn't that bad. IMHO after the blm working on there macro and changing it for the party. If there MB misses it's the melees fault not there's.

Now freeze bursting in the 50's and 60's does kind of work. (I personally only do it every once in a while. For other reasons not MP.)

I am usually type of party. blm, whm, pld, rdm, thf, sam. 9 times out of 10 that's the kind of party I am in, so because of that Freeze bursting works out well. I always have enough MP. Another thing a lot of blm's forget is, that you don't have to stand up at the begining of a fight. To be honest. IMHO you shouldn't give your pld some time to make some more hate. It works out better. I only stand up before 500 MP in any party if I have to. (I.e. Escape or SC.) It's just not really needed for me to.

Now as far as -ga chaining I hate doing it. Most places that you will lvl aren't really clear from mob's so -ga bursting or -ga casting at all kind of doesn't work out really well. Unless you get a good camp spot. I know I am on seraph on of the smaller servers and that is a problem sometime. I can just imagine what it is like on the bigger servers.

Doing freeze for fights is wise at times. I mean in the party I explained I don't do anything. My usual thing is Shock, Burn, Frost. X2 then by then thf and sam are ready for chain. Freeze sit down. It doesn't really take us more then 45-1min 15 seconds for any fight.

It really isn't a bad idea. Now I will say if you have a pld that sucks at holding hate. Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. I have been in a party before where the pld for some reason. Either didn't know what it was, or just didn't like me. Wouldn't cover. (Let's just say he accidentally got warped by to his HP.) But if you have a pld that will cover. You are good. Just run behind them before the chain and go.


Well that's what I have observed.

[riceburner4540]

Now as far as -ga chaining I hate doing it. Most places that you will lvl aren't really clear from mob's so -ga bursting or -ga casting at all kind of doesn't work out really well. Unless you get a good camp spot. I know I am on seraph on of the smaller servers and that is a problem sometime. I can just imagine what it is like on the bigger servers.

the only place so far that i couldn't burst -ga spells in has been boyahda tree. man that sucked...i tried once, didn't turn out too well. i've always found alternatives to ancient magic bursting...and its always more efficient (mp and xp-wise). i even used water III on robber crabs...yeah thats right, i don't get resisted much and it does over 500 for only 98 mp while freeze is over 3 times more for only about 1150.

[navpops]

Originally posted by Tsama


Doing freeze for fights is wise at times. I mean in the party I explained I don't do anything. My usual thing is Shock, Burn, Frost. X2 then by then thf and sam are ready for chain. Freeze sit down. It doesn't really take us more then 45-1min 15 seconds for any fight.




Well that's what I have observed.

i was under the impression Burn and Frost conflicted and would not stack together, i may be wrong.

[almighty_boof]

I know AM has one of the greatest coolness factors of all the magic in FF XI. But is it actually worth the effort and MP? I mean, come on, 307 MP?! o,O Thats just crazy.Better hope to have Ballads I and II on and Refresh if you are doing it in a XP battle. Don't the -ga spells do good DMG when getting an MB anyways? You just gotta be careful. Meanwhile you got your other BLMs throwing in Blizzard II for 77 MP and that is still doing great DMG. Would you be able to go on with the EXP Chain after you were to throw in a AM? Is the DMG really worth it? What about the aggro the BLM would recieve? Wouldn't the mob need to die from the blast opr die in the next few hits? I just wanna know if AM is actually worth casting. I know that it is SO KEWL to be able to cast the spells, but is it worth it in the long run?

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by navpops



i was under the impression Burn and Frost conflicted and would not stack together, i may be wrong.

you're not

[riceburner4540]

damn i can't believe i overlooked that

anyway, to give you an example of the damage the various spells do...

blizzard - 120-130 for 30 mp
blizzard II - 280-300 for 77 mp
blizzaga II - 580-600 for 175 mp
freeze - 900-950 for 307 mp

MBed
blizzard - who knows?
blizzard II - 360-380
blizzaga II - 750+
freeze - 1100

damage:mp ratios for MBs are as follows
4.7-4.9:1 for blizzard II
4.3:1 for blizzaga II
3.6:1 for freeze

blizzard II has the most efficient damage:mp ratio, but is too weak and freeze is most powerful, but too inefficient. blizzaga II is perfect.

i'm a hume, btw. taru damage might be higher.

[Ghostraven]

Originally posted by almighty_boof
I know AM has one of the greatest coolness factors of all the magic in FF XI. But is it actually worth the effort and MP? I mean, come on, 307 MP?! o,O Thats just crazy.

Crazy things are possible in a great party..

Rdm/Drk(me)/Whm/Blm/Blm/Pld in CN level 51-53 doing beetles. rdm and whm were hume, blm's were taru We were killing Beetles for 200xp plus the occasional chain. No downtime what so ever, and one blm would always end the SC with freeze. Very fun to see an IT beetle lose about 40% hp in one shot. Our pld was mithra and lost hate on freeze the first time, after that all it took was cover....

[Zafron]

I was in a Beetle group recently where the skill chain was

Vorpal Scythe > SATA+Viper Bite > Freeze

We had no problems chaining mobs and the xp was great. We never had to wait on BLM mp. The bottleneck in that group(as seems to be the case in most groups i'm with these days) was PLD mp.

[almighty_boof]

Can you please give me a strateg on not having downtime after a SC with AM? I find it kind of difficult.....Any help would be appritiated.

[Tsama]

I have something that might help out.

Whenever you party don't stand up until you hit 500 mp, unless there is some reason that makes it pertinent for you to stand up at that exact second.

Remember as playing a blm, you don't have to start off nuking at the very begining of the battle. You can wait, it actually helps your tank get a better hold of hate also.

If you are in a party and you are MBing Freeze it's not wise to all out nuke whatever your fighting. The reason it's a bad idea is because remember Freeze makes a shit load of hate. So if you are making other hate, when you cast it, you are going to have that mob over you like white on rice. So dummy down on casting other spells. It saves up MP, and it also saves up your little butt being beaten up.

If you do don't cast to much you will be good on MP after freeze.

Let's say you get up at 507. Well after you are done casting freeze you have 200 mp, depending on a couple things.

Now if you cast Blizzard II, and sit down. You will be at 123. Which isn't that bad, but could be better. Now remember when your regain Mp, the amount that you regain increases the longer you sit. So the longer you sit the more you will pick up. It will make it a lot easier for you to get to your 500.

[riceburner4540]

what about casting elemental enfeebles? can't depend on the rdm to do it, he has his own stuff to take care of, and they're most effective when cast at the very beginning of battle. i personally throw out either shock + frost or shock + burn + choke every battle. this is the time when the paladin should get a good foothold on hate. i cast the 2 or 3 elemental enfeebles, drain and/or aspir, wait about 10 seconds, then let loose with the nukes.

if you did nothing but MB an ancient each battle, for example, freeze, thats 307 mp for 1100 damage. well, lets say you spread the damage out a little with other nukes. for 307 mp you could...say...blizzaga II MB for 750 and then 2 blizzard II nukes for 280 each....(total, 329) similar mp cost, more damage. also, the hate would be spread out more so you don't need to rely on cover or something, since the mob *shouldn't* aggro you whereas an 1100 damage chunk would undoubtedly get you aggro.

[Tsama]

1100 damage is 1100 dmg either way, the mob is going to be pissed at you, if it's first when you hit that 720 mb. Oh wait. Most places that you lvl you can't use Blizzaga II. I mean it kind of becomes suicide. Only place I can think of off the top of my head that it can be used is cape terrigan. Definately can't use it in Boyahada or in Nest. There are other places, but most of them you can't use AOE, because you will probably hit another mob. Nothing worse then the blm getting the shit beat out of him/her by some mob because you accidentally hit it. I have done it more than I care to comment on, it's not really the pretiest thing.

Also I never said that it was always perfect I personally believe now it is a waste of MP. I can do better spells for more damage.

But it does have it's benefits. Like when you first get the spell. I works out pretty nice because you can hit hard. Most mobs in that lvl range only have about 1500-2000 HP. Hmm... let's see
if I do 1100 damage on a mob that only has 1800 HP. I think I can let the melee do the last 700 damage. Shouldn't take that long considering that I don't even stand up until about 300-400 hp is gone.

As for shock etc... yeah they are good to cast. But you can cast them when you stand up. There is no rush for them. Maybe frost. But that's it.

[Yuanlung]

Originally posted by Tsama
1100 damage is 1100 dmg either way, the mob is going to be pissed at you.

Except hate disspates over time, and your tanks needs time to regain hate. By spreading out the damage over time, you allow your hate to slowly decrease, while letting your tank to regain more hate.

A single burst of 1100 dmg that doesn't kill the monster instantly is going to give you the monster's undevided attention for while.