Why are so many BLMs MBing Freeze?

[Geo]

Just got back into the game from a 2 week break, now I see all the damn noobs telling me to help them MB Freeze. After I tell them how much damage the will be doing with it, they say Im an asshole noob. Then they blame me for not timing it correctly, meanwhile I do whatever his macro says, get the THF Viper in right, then get bitched at. WTF? MBing any form of Ancient Magic is wasteful and stupid, yet people do this. Why? How can I tell them the facts (a better way than I am right now)?

[Ghostraven]

NOT wasteful and stupid if you have refreshers and you know when to do it.

-Use it to finish off an xp chain before resting.
-Use it if you are sure it will kill the mob, or your pld has cover up and knows what he's doing.
-use it if you have 2 blm and have mp to spare

Why does everyone want to use it? 600-1000 dmg + on a burst thats why :sweat: It's a new toy for Blm's to feel powerful, let them play :sweat:

[Geo]

It was doing 500 Damage, 192 Damage when it my Tachi missed and didnt allow SC.
Stone III was doing 370+ Damage without a burst, and he could cast it twice for that same amount of mana and still be able to burst Blizzard II.

Edit:
I can care less about things being new, I dont switch to Tachi: Jinpu and say Detanation and Scission only SC. Its extremely stupid when I tell them what they shoul do, in my group, with me having more experience than them. If you feel like bursting Freeze do it on your spare time. Ive charged over 450% TP in each fight trying to burst Freeze, the THF charged around 350%. The BLM apparently used Stone III by "accident".
Jesus, not only is he stupid, he wastes my job class, for his ideas.

[Ghostraven]

maybe he got resisted :sweat: but in my experience with freeze the blm's in my static used to rape beetles with it in garlaige and CN. no less than 600 damage each time.

I partied with a random BLm a few weeks ago and he was so happy to get freeze he wanted to try it out and he missed the burst... still did great damage though.. if it doesnt get resisted on a creature weak to ice (beetles) it can do some serious damage and is recommended if your PT has skills.

[Oompa]

So naturally, since this one BLM obvioulsy can't get his stuff in gear, we all suck, right?

As mentioned earlier, I usually end chains on an ancient magic burst. It rarely ever gets resisted, and unless we have a crappy ranger in the party, I usually do 1200+ on the magic burst. However if the ranger misses the skillchain, then I usually do about 1000~. That's damn good damage for "just" 380MP.

[cld]

Originally posted by Ghostraven

I partied with a random BLm a few weeks ago and he was so happy to get freeze he wanted to try it out and he missed the burst...

ummm... the blm can't miss the mb, he has to cast before the tanks do their sc, so they can miss.
all the blm can do is create a macro and explain the /wait times to the tanks ^^.

[Yuanlung]

It's nice to look at high damage, but outside ending a exp chain, I really don't see much reason to use freeze or anyother ancient magic, even in bursts.

It was fun to play with when I first got it, but I soon grew tired of the 18 second cast and low MP efficiency. Freeze does 1000~1100 for me on a unresisted burst for 308 MP, but an aeroga II burst does 700~800 500~600 for 138 MP....

The only time I really had to use Freeze burst was when we were fighting some IT++++ beetle. The PLD takes so much damage from it even with defender and sentinal, that we just had to end the fight as quickly as we could. However, that was a bad choice of exp mob, because we could not get beyond chain #2.


EDIT: I went back and re-tested. It seems that my memory was playing tricks on me. My Aeroga II bursts were not doing as much as I remembered. The numbers still favour regulat spells over MA though.

[Ghostraven]

Originally posted by cld


ummm... the blm can't miss the mb, he has to cast before the tanks do their sc, so they can miss.
all the blm can do is create a macro and explain the /wait times to the tanks ^^.

ummmmm.. it was his first time doing the freeze burst so of course his macro /wait times were off. Skillchain connected but he MISSED the burst window by like 5 seconds.

[Coinspinner]

Originally posted by Geo
It was doing 500 Damage, 192 Damage when it my Tachi missed and didnt allow SC.
Stone III was doing 370+ Damage without a burst, and he could cast it twice for that same amount of mana and still be able to burst Blizzard II.

That damage is low... even for a resisted non-burst Freeze. What mob is this on? Seems like Shell is on the mob, or else it's not even weak to ice...

[Geo]

Crabs, Kuftal.
I didnt say you all suck
I said that you should help other BLMs to comprehend their deficet of knowledge; teach others who just got freeze and other AMs not to burst them.

[Yunna]

It's not only Freeze. It's all ancient magics. Use the correct type and you won't get resisted so easily. Meaning find out the mob's weakness first. BLM's are suppose to be bursting with 900mb atleast. (I'm a hume. I can already do 1000+ even with Freeze. )

If you can't burst near 900, then you don't know what you're doing. Or you can blame it on your RDM/BRD (Dispel/Magic finale the bugger first lol)

Magic bursts /w ancient should only be used to end chains.

When in PTs, no, Ancient's not for fun and there's no need to use it other then in a burst. To end chains.

It's both melee and blm's job to time the chain. There's no one way blame.

Usually, during chain 1,2,3 you would use regular. Chain 4,5 you'd use ancient. (Only if it's needed.)

Geo, you'll run into alot of blm's with their new toys @ your level. I'm not calling you guys noobs but we all went through that when we first hit 50.

If exp chaining is not important to you. (lol) Then yeah, don't ancient mb.

[Geo]

Yunna it was nothing like what you said.
It was all basiclly the only burst we "did" at all. I can understand burst AM as a single last ditch effort to make some time limits, but ignoring all other bursts and not casting any other form of magic is what this BLm was doing ><

[riceburner4540]

The only time I really had to use Freeze burst was when we were fighting some IT++++ beetle. The PLD takes so much damage from it even with defender and sentinal, that we just had to end the fight as quickly as we could. However, that was a bad choice of exp mob, because we could not get beyond chain #2.

same here, except we'd occasionally make it to chain #3. the one good thing was that we were getting 200xp per kill without chains and mid-high 200s with. all in all though, i don't really recommend ancient bursts unless you have massive mp regen. once you get blizzaga II, you'll probably never burst freeze (or flood) on a distortion chain again. my blizzaga II burst does mid 700 in damage.

an aeroga II burst does 700~800 for 138 MP

that must have been on a double wind element, wind day with wind staff or something O_O...because with my gear, i can *maybe* burst blizzaga II for 800 but usually mid 700s. i use moldavite, ice staff, and like +28 int, though i am a hume so...

It was doing 500 Damage, 192 Damage when it my Tachi missed and didnt allow SC.

thats definitely a resist, but most likely because of the crab's shell. those damn things get smarter and smarter...it was irritating how they always put up shell the instant before my spell casted.

If exp chaining is not important to you. (lol) Then yeah, don't ancient mb.

with the exception of those super IT beetles, i've never had to burst ancients to maintain high exp chains, and after 1 level up, i stopped using ancients to burst altogether.

[AtraposBLM]

Gotta agree with all those that posted before me. In an EXP party...AM bursts always fall short of -ga bursts. That being said, I bursted freeze when I first got it at lv50 fighting Lich's in Eldieme...took me 2 tries to get the macro timing to the point where the melee's hit it correctly..and it always required a little adjustment when I was in different groups.

Around the 50's, you get a lot of people that request you to use AM's. They hear about the big damage numbers, but never read about the down sides. What I used to do was explain what was wrong with them. If that wasn't enough for some people, I'd go one chain using -ga's, and one chain using freeze bursts. That showed people I knew what I was doing, had used both, and decided on the better of the two. People notice a difference when you do chain 3, 4, and 5 and are shortly ready to go again when you burst -ga's, and when you can do chain 3 and have no mp left when you burst AM's.

The only time I would think AM's would be plausible would be in the 65+ range, where you have access to so much +mp recovery and at lv70 get the last clear mind, that regening 300+ mp wouldn't be as big of a deal. The only problem with that is the fact that at these levels, there are simply better -ga's. I'd rather burst Waterga III for 928-1028 damage for ~215 mp (forget exact value) than burst Freeze for 1,000-1,100 damage for 307 mp. Considering that in a *decent* exp party, the skill chain damage plus your burst damage with -ga's is usally already overkill, getting a slight increase in damage for 75-100 mp generally isn't worth the bother with timing and increased down time.

[SlipA]

AM is unstoppable in a rdm, blm, brd party (in the 50s). After that, the -ga's just hit too hard and dont require the stupid cast time, so i dont see the point.