Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

[Balfree]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Having merits for each job independent of the other jobs would be SAWEEET.

That would also mean exponential more exping to do on those jobs lol.

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

What they're going to do about it, I don't know, but I'm glad they're looking at it.

In a previous interview they said they feel the best way around this is to raise the caps further. I'd like to seem them go the extra mile and reduce the amount of Limit Points needed to earn a merit personally. 5k seems plenty fair.

[Mhurron]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Having merits for each job independent of the other jobs would be SAWEEET.

8 Merits Enfeebling RDM
8 Merits Elemental RDM

8 Merits Enfeebling BLM
8 Merits Elemental BLM

... No thanks.

[Balfree]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

8 Merits Enfeebling RDM
8 Merits Elemental RDM

8 Merits Enfeebling BLM
8 Merits Elemental BLM

... No thanks.

That would also mean exponential more exping to do on those jobs lol.

[Mhurron]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

disagree definition | Dictionary.com

English. kthxbye

[Firewind]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

In a previous interview they said they feel the best way around this is to raise the caps further. I'd like to seem them go the extra mile and reduce the amount of Limit Points needed to earn a merit personally. 5k seems plenty fair.

As much as I would like to see that happening I don't think the people who have literally spent several million exp worth of Merit points will

I love how these days if you simply disagree with a point, that you've automatically "missed the point."

[Idea stealing from another job] is never a good point, its the antithesis of SE's job design. Anything remotely similar to to another ability in this game runs under a totally different dynamic. RDMs get butthurt over the fact BLU has A- in sword, but fail to consider that Sword skill has an effect on Blue Magic, as does other melee stats.

SCH does not simply have a knock-off of Seigan and Hasso, Light Arts and Dark Arts take the "stance" appliaction and everything from that point on isn't very similar. COR got "charges" for Quick Draw like SCHs get strategem charges, but aside from them having charges, its a to a totally different end. Stratagems alter spells, Quick Draws enhance applied enfeebles, Dispel and Sleep.

Light Based sleep previously existed within three jobs before WHM was given repose, so we're not exactly stealing from another job here, particularly since they all have differing levels of potency and different means of making them accurate.

At this point in the game, there is nothing WHM needs for MP recovery. You have access to Aspir, Light Arts, Penury, Sublimation and Auto Refresh all under subjobs. There are insane amounts +hMP gear, MP Foods, Sanction Refresh, Vermy cloak - and that's all before mentioning BRD, COR or RDM.

WHMs act like nothing has changed for them. They're only right about that in the meritting department - nothing suggested thus far would change a thing in that arena. You've been granted crowd control ability with Repose and Celerity, MP independance with Sublimation and refresh gear and a melee sub that lets you spend TP on cures instead of MP. And teleport spells.

What more can SE do - short of abolishing TP burn - to please you?

Please read the original post before posting the exact same things on subjobs and gear. You were probably accused of missing the point because we aren't discussing subjobs and gear.

The ability stealing poitn is invalid if you include SCH in the argument. SCH is the job most guilty of taking abilities from other jobs. Let's count the abilities stolen by SCH and why they were mostly completely unnecessary due to subjobs:

Exclusive abilities:

Regen II from WHM (And for some reason before WHM gets it. Not needed due to BRDS having Paeon)
Raise II and Reraise II from WHM (I can't name a WHM who complained about this but I know lots of RDMs who did.)
Erase from WHM (Accessible from subbing WHM so completely unnecessary)
Tier IV nukes from BLM (Though technically PUP also had access)
Etude from BRD (Accessible from a BRD sub so completely unessential)
AoE Cures from WHM (Accessible from subbing WHM so completely unnecessary)
Elemental seal from BLM (accessible from subbing BLM so completely unnecessary)

Non-Exclusive abilities
Status heals from WHM and DNC (Accessible from subbing WHM or DNC so completely unnecessary)
AoE status heals from WHM and DNC (And more often too, accessible from subbing DNC so completely unnecessary)
Dispel from RDM, BLU, COR and BRD (Considering that you will always find RDM, BRD or COR in a party and you get it from subbing RDM it's pretty unessential and unnecessary)
AoE Stoneskin from SMN and BLU
AoE Blink from SMN (Accessable from a SMN sub so unnecessary)
AoE Phalanx from SMN (Which is technically more effective than a fuller merited Phalanx II)
Sleep and Sleep II from BLM, RDM and DRK (Dark based sleep accessible from a BLm or RDM sub, Light based from a BRD sub so unnecessary)

There are lots of toys SCH was given natively to make the job more appealing. A lot of the abilities are very useful and very nice to have especially when some of them are only found on one or two jobs but using your argument of "subjob abilities count as native abilities and the abilities you don't have an be covered by party members" almost all completely unnecessary.

The main thing I object to about your post is that you think it's okay that SCH got an ability that all MP users have natively in some form yet you're objecting to the idea of WHMs getting an ability that all other MP users have naviely in some form. Light based Aspir is hardly game breaking and is a reasonable.

If WHM subs something other than /SCH for whatever reason Sublimation, Arts, Strats and the couple of useful Addendum Black spells are lost along with the forms of MP regen they bring. if I sub BLM the only additional form of MP regen I get will be Conserve MP and Aspir. If I sub SMN I get 1MP/tick if I'm synced above 50. If I sub NIN or BST for soloing the only form of MP regen I have is resting. It's not as if I'm even bloody asking for WHM to get anything like Refresh. Just a native way of getting back a few more MP. A Light based aspir will not cause other jobs to roit, it will not unbalance WHM and is almost certainly will not effect WHM's invite rate so why are you objecting?

And /DNC is not a viable melee subjob for WHM especially with Regen III merits and /NIN being available. /DNC is suited for jobs that have a very quick TP gain and WHMs need every single bit of TP they gain and since they have the worst DEX score in the game accuracy and thus TP gain is adversely effected. /DNC almost completely sacrifices the Hexa Strike and thus the vast majority of WHM's damage output. If meleeing I'd much rather go with /NIN for damage mitigation or /BST for a free tank (WHM's CHA is th second highest in the game so lots of pets are Charmable) than sacrifice TP for the sake of one or two free heals per fight. That and good luck getting a party invite as WHM/DNC outside of specific BCNM strategies much less getting to melee in a party.

[Taskmage]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

As much as I would like to see that happening I don't think the people who have literally spent several million exp worth of Merit points will

Back in 2005 they reduced the amount of experience points needed to reach level 75 by about 124k. There was some grumbling naturally but probably not enough of a backlash that they wouldn't consider doing something similar again. But then again, they're already giving us 20 half-price merit points every year when they hand out anniversary rings.

[Firewind]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

The Anniversary Ring I got last year got me a nice chunk of levels on my SCH job. Shame I didn't save it for when I dinged WHM75 for merits but meleeing instead of healing in campaign rakes in lots of limit points anyway. I get 2-3k per fight compared to 600-800 from just healing so I usually just curebomb random people before refreshing tags to get that extra bit of exp at the end.

[Truece]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vauge developer details from JP button)

I love how these days if you simply disagree with a point, that you've automatically "missed the point."

I guess that's what happened since the VERY FIRST thing you said was

No point.

Clearly, since you claim that there is 'No point' to my comment, then you missed it...

Light Based sleep previously existed within three jobs before WHM was given repose, so we're not exactly stealing from another job here, particularly since they all have differing levels of potency and different means of making them accurate.

Or, you could stay that a light-based sleep was 'stealing' from 3 other jobs? Although I don't know why you even bring this up. There is currently no light-based aspir in the game, so it is completely new, not stealing from anyone, not stepping on anyone's toes.

At this point in the game, there is nothing WHM needs for MP recovery. You have access to Aspir, Light Arts, Penury, Sublimation and Auto Refresh all under subjobs. There are insane amounts +hMP gear, MP Foods, Sanction Refresh, Vermy cloak - and that's all before mentioning BRD, COR or RDM.

I agree, WHM has excellent tools for MP recovery, and we have access to Aspir, Light Arts, Penury, Sublimation and Auto-Refresh all under subjobs. I think what firewind was suggesting, and subsequently why I mentioned a 'syphon', light-based aspir in the first place, was that WHMs could benefit from some job-specific means of MP recovery.

WHMs act like nothing has changed for them. They're only right about that in the meritting department - nothing suggested thus far would change a thing in that arena. You've been granted crowd control ability with Repose and Celerity, MP independance with Sublimation and refresh gear and a melee sub that lets you spend TP on cures instead of MP. And teleport spells.

What more can SE do - short of abolishing TP burn - to please you?

You don't need to do anything to WHM to please me. As soon as SE released SCH and added sublimation, WHM became perfect. It doesn't need anything, it is perfect just as it is. It has everything that a player needs to do the job that a WHM needs to do (the same could be said for RDM). But this is a thread to discuss forthcoming job adjustments, and I think that giving the WHM job some form of MP recovery would be a good adjustment. Is it necessary? No.

[Taskmage]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

People, people. Can't we put this whole "white mage" nonsense aside and focus on the real and infinitely more valid problem that is SE's neglect of red mages? I think we can all agree that any class should be able to do any damn thing in the game without subjobs our assistance from other classes. Just give red mage enspell IIs, attack and accuracy bonus traits, accessible weapons on par with Murgleis and a permanent chainspell effect and all our dreams could come true!

[ShepardG]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

People, people. Can't we put this whole "white mage" nonsense aside and focus on the real and infinitely more valid problem that is SE's neglect of red mages? I think we can all agree that any class should be able to do any damn thing in the game without subjobs our assistance from other classes. Just give red mage enspell IIs, attack and accuracy bonus traits, accessible weapons on par with Murgleis and a permanent chainspell effect and all our dreams could come true!

Red mages are getting a fucking laser gun....what the hell else do you want......fuck!

[Kailea]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

my god... for the last time... RED MAGE NEEDS NOTHING

Why do you think SE has not done anythign to it? Its because there is nothign more to do at the moment.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

You need to fix your sarcasm detector.

[Armando]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

WTF??? I thought they were THF type mobs due to their eva and ability to steal ur food

If you think Colibri are evasive you've clearly never fought an actual THF mob. A VT/IT THF mob can't be touched.

BLU magic makes some slight sense thematically but not that much. They can't use spells on command and they can't parrot Blue Magic. A BLU that can't use Blue Magic is pretty silly.

I once read in a BG discussion around the time Nagamaki was posting his Acc -> Hit Rate formula test results that there was reason to believe that Colibris use their own skills when they cast back on you - something about BRD songs getting resisted pretty often.

Their stats also matched RDM fairly well from what I saw of that thread but BLU has identical base stats. The presence or absence of MDB and Fast Cast would be far better indicators.

[Feenicks]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Well the presence of Fast Cast is pretty bloody obvious on Colibri ...