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  • Post your job adjustment wish lists!

    The horrible, horrible derail of the battle system tweak announcement thread got me to thinking: we need someplace to soapbox our pet job adjustments. Similar derails happen in other threads too, after all. I propose that we bring those inevitable rants here rather than horning in on other threads.

    I'll go first.

    WAR: WAR tanking will never happen so long as WAR tanks are murder on chains to heal. Contrary to SE's apparent belief, holding hate is not and has never been WAR's problem as a tank; survival is. That being said, you lose something essential to WAR if it's capable of being truly self-sufficient as a tank like PLD and NIN are.

    Thus, my proposal is this: give WAR at post-sub levels, or MNK at a low level (remember WAR/MNK tanking?), a new job trait that increases the amount of HP they gain from heals and the regen rate from regenerative spells active on them -- perhaps by 25%. They'll still rely on outside help for healing, but a smart mage would spend considerably less MP healing a WAR (or WAR/MNK) than they would anyone else.

    There is, however, one issue with this idea: more HP healed means more enmity generated by the heal. To counteract this as well as shore up WAR's only weakness in holding hate, WAR could also be given a job ability that causes heals targetted at them to generate somewhat less Enmity, say 75% of normal. It could be on a two-to-three-minute timer and last 30 seconds.


    MNK: MNK is pretty good as a main job, IMO. Where it falls short most is as a subjob. I don't have a lot of ideas on this front aside from the 25%-more-healing trait mentioned above, however -- which would nicely complement MNK's high HP but low Def.


    THF: Some of the best things one could do for THF are pretty indirect. First, make some better light DD gear (which would also help RDMs melee where that's appropriate, NINs hold hate through damage, DNCs DD as the community seems to have decided they ought to, and so on). Next, add {Enmity} to the auto-translate function so people have a clue what THF is aside from a light DDer. (This would also help in other ways.) Third, redo the entire Dagger weaponskill list with THF and Sneak Attack in mind, not RDM and magical ability. (I can dream, can't I?)

    There are, however, some things that could be done directly to THF to help it. One would be to make Trick Attack more effective -- say, a +20 Enmity bonus on the attack (which, if executed properly, would mean even more of a hate spike for the target). Another would be to give THF a Chain Closing Potency trait that bumps up the damage and accuracy of the skillchain effect of any chain they close -- say, +15% damage/+4 Acc at level 10, and +5%/+2 every 20 levels thereafter. This would increase the benefit of cooperating with a THF while also giving a THF a limited ability to adapt to parties that Just Will Not Cooperate ("screw it, I'll just close chains opportunistically"). One could even make this ability increase the damage or accuracy of a magic burst off of the resulting skillchain or make such a bursted spell generate less enmity.


    BLM: BLM's real problem is largely a community issue. That being said, BLM nukes and skillchain damage alike could be helped by one simple adjustment -- make resists less powerful. As it is, by my understanding, the best case scenario on a resist is half damage. Change it so that the best case scenario is 3/4 damage, and make the 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc. tiers of resist come after that. This would make both nuking and skillchaining more worthwhile -- and what do you get when you combine the two? This would have the side-effect of nerfing Barelement spells, however, though this could be fixed by making Barelements also reduce overall damage of the element by a small percentage.


    WHM: As it stands, SCH can now use AoE -na spells better than WHM can. For the supposed premier healer in the game, this is absolutely ridiculous. SE should change Divine Veil from a job trait that gives Divine Seal a second function to a seperate JA on at most a five-minute timer -- maybe even three-minute. That way, AoE status healing would be possible on a regular basis and wouldn't come at the expense of sacrificing one of the WHM's few tools for MP efficiency.

    Since RDM's and SMN's selling points for the healer role are their MP but to duplicate the same benefit for WHM would make the jobs run together too much, I feel that WHM should have its benefit-per-MP-spent improved at post-sub levels. Cure Potency traits would be a start. I used to also think that Regen II and Regen III's casting times should be shortened to 3.5 and 3 seconds respectively to encourage their use (remember the way Ni spells used to be?), but SCH gaining Regen II has complicated this; I don't know whether it's still a good idea to take this approach.


    RDM: OK, so enfeebling accuracy starts acting screwy at the top? RDM's nukes aren't worth the MP spent on them? Swapping out staves for a sword makes your spell accuracy go down the tubes? There's a simple, appropriate solution to all three problems: give RDM Magic Accuracy Bonus traits. This could even make RDM more attractive as a subjob.

    If SE truly wants RDM to be "used more as magical swordsmen", though, they need to do more than just make our buff cycle even longer; they have to make it so that for us, spellcasting and sword-swinging can be done at the same time. Give us a job trait, nice and subbable to make it catch the eye of those BLUs and DRKs too. Standing back and using staves would still mean better spells, but if we're extra-accurate elven bladesinger-alikes, then us stepping out front instead wouldn't be such a ridiculous notion in the right situation.

    Another way us meleeing could be made situationally useful would be to give us Enstatus spells roughly as accurate as our normal enfeebles. While this may sound bizzare, consider this: What would be a better way of sticking Silence on Kirin -- spending time and MP over and over again from the back lines until it finally lands, or spending time and MP once and daggerburning Kirin until it sticks? The latter would certainly be faster, more MP-efficient, and would leave the RDM freer to react to problems. Basically, balance things such that Enstatuses are a better idea on magic-resistant mobs than the regular spells are. The ability to enfeeble colibri by this method is also a plus.


    BRD:
    Originally posted by Lmnop View Post
    People say BRD is nothing w/out a party and that balances them. But this is a party game.

    When you simply cannot make 20k/hour w/out a BRD, the job has become too essential.
    Lmnop makes a very good point. BRD is simply a powerhouse. No other job can enable meleeburn the way a BRD does. Perhaps a minor nerf is in order -- say, separating BRD's buff and debuff effectiveness into two modes that are on timers, similar to SCH or SAM. If balanced well, this would only hinder the renew-one-buff-Elegy-and-Lullaby-new-mob-repeat cycle that characterizes BRD meleeburn pulling, and merely require a reworking of strategies around the timers in other situations.


    BST: SE's done a lot for BST lately. This is probably a good time to leave well enough alone.


    DRK: DRK's "problem" at this point is meleeburn. When that imbalance is fixed, DRK will be just fine IMO. If not, well, we'll see what happens when the time comes.


    PLD: PLD's primary "problem", too, is meleeburn. Solve the meleeburn problem and parties with PLD tanks are sure to follow. That being said, PLD would certainly benefit from more ways to deal with magic. Rampart's revision was a step in the right direction, but a properly-balanced Runic ability would round out PLD's ability to deal with magical attacks well. Perhaps a three-minute timer, duration 30 seconds or until discharged, causes next spell directed to a party member to be redirected to the PLD, MP recovered according to level of resistance (so a completely resisted Slow would give back 12 MP, a 1/4 damage Fire III would give back 84 MP, etc.). Of course, doing it that way would mean that a PLD would be wise to swap in elemental resist gear when using Runic...

    While I've heard of issues with Def eventually having diminishing returns, I play PLD in entirely the wrong style to be able to comment.


    RNG: In addition to Velocity Shot, perhaps RNG could be given another stance, which does not stack with Velocity Shot, that lowers the RNG's Enmity generation from ranged attacks significantly. Nothing sucks more than having a mob run after the RNG every freaking time they use a weaponskill -- from anyone's perspective.


    DRG: SE's suggested changes seem like a great improvement -- particularly if they make a point to make the wyvern's resistance to magical attacks very strong. Also give the wyvern a slight resistance to Dragon Killer, so they aren't totally paralyzed by imps.


    NIN: OK, I can see why NIN doesn't get Jubaku: Ni, but what's wrong with Dokumori: Ni? BLMs and RDMs get Poison II, after all, and BLUs get all kinds of powerful poison spells. Also, Ni jutsus should only be quite that fast to cast for a NIN main; make it so that Tonko: Ni and Utsusemi: Ni take 3 seconds to cast when subbed, not 1.5. That'd at least be a compromise.


    SAM: Hasso could use juuust a tiiiny nerf in light of the 2H changes. Say, make the STR bonus from Hasso equal to only 1/10 level, rounded down, instead of 1/7. Seigan could use a boost too -- say, a 25% greater Parrying rate, and the number of guaranteed anticipations increased to two per Third Eye.


    SMN: Summoner should not use its MP primarily for its subjob. Summoner's Ward pacts should always be worth the cost. Avatar melee should not be a complete joke. Summoner should at least remotely live up to its in-game reputation as a DDer. Therefore, I propose several changes.

    Blood Pact: Rage should be subdivided into physical and magical pacts, allowing a good SMN to cooperate with a melee to skillchain and burst that chain. The effectiveness of most magical attack pacts should be increased, with the possible exceptions of Meteorite, Nether Blast, and the Astral Flows. These changes would make SMN a good DD.

    Avatar melee should have its power increased through the addition of Enelement damage of the avatar's element. This damage should be equal to 1/10 of the SMN's Summoning Magic skill, rounded down, and can be affected by the day and weather. Avatar melee should also be made more accurate by having their accuracy be calculated as though the SMN's summoning skill were the avatar's weapon's skill.

    Blood Pact: Ward should have its dud spells fixed -- reduce Whispering Wind's cost to perhaps 89 MP, increase the duration and effectiveness of the likes of Rolling Thunder and Frost Armor, and so on. Leave the perennially effective ones like Aerial Armor alone.

    It would be neat to add incentive to experiment with other subjobs as well. One of my favorite ideas for that is to allow avatars to gain job traits from the SMN's current sub. Want your avatar to melee better without completely abandoning MP? Sub DRK.


    BLU: BLU's key problem, much like DRK's and PLD's, is meleeburn. Beyond that, the only thing really holding BLU back that I can see is its I-don'-wanna-play-support players -- though a self-regen and more of a variety of nukes to self-burst wouldn't hurt.


    COR: The Quick Draw charges thing is nice and all, but what COR really needs is a level 1 gun. And preferably more bullets.


    PUP: PUP's biggest "problem" is that it doesn't do one thing -- it does what the party needs it to become. To the average FFXI player, that's inconceivable; I blame small search comments. That being said, it could stand to do some of the things it does better, especially choosing the right tier of Cure for the job.


    DNC: The timers and costs on high-level Waltzes are murder on DNC's high-level healing ability. Does SE ever actually playtest jobs past Dunes levels? Curing Waltz is fine at 20% TP and 6 seconds, but make II 30% and 7 seconds, III 40% and 8 seconds, and IV 50% and 9 seconds. Also give DNC Reraise Waltz, Divine Waltz II, and Dispelling Flourish. The aforementioned light DDer gear would help here too.


    SCH: Give SCH one more subbable Strategem pair, perhaps in the 15-20 range, which halves the Enmity generated by the next white/black spell cast. This gives the job, and more importantly subjob, a more obvious team player benefit.

    Lower the Cure spell gain levels: Cure at 4, Cure II at 15, Cure III at 28, Cure IV at 52. Gaining Cures later than RDM is fine, but if they're supposed to be considered for healing at all, they should learn Cures earlier than a bloody Paladin. Especially Cure II.

    Rename the current *helix spells to *helix II spells, and make a subbable first-tier set. These would have about a fifth to a tenth of the damage per tick and only about three-quarters the duration and still wouldn't stack, but it would say to people, "hey, SCHs do DoT", give people something semi-uniquely Scholarish as a subbable spell, and make the weather spells actually directly useful to SCH at the levels they gain them, since those have a dramatic effect on Helix effectiveness.

    Give Scholar its own unique subbable defensive spells that require a little more thought to use than Blink and Stoneskin -- spells that are damage-type-specific, or change the nature of the danger into something easier to handle (such as turning spike damage into DoT divided over ten ticks). /WHM and /RDM would remain superior defensively, but if applied intelligently /SCH at least wouldn't be helpless.
    Last edited by Pteryx; 02-24-2008, 10:02 AM. Reason: Forgot SMN until last night, when I was so tired I typoed

  • #2
    Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

    Originally posted by Pteryx View Post
    RDM: OK, so enfeebling accuracy starts acting screwy at the top? RDM's nukes aren't worth the MP spent on them? Swapping out staves for a sword makes your spell accuracy go down the tubes? There's a simple, appropriate solution to all three problems: give RDM Magic Accuracy Bonus traits. This could even make RDM more attractive as a subjob.

    If SE truly wants RDM to be "used more as magical swordsmen", though, they need to do more than just make our buff cycle even longer; they have to make it so that for us, spellcasting and sword-swinging can be done at the same time. Give us a job trait, nice and subbable to make it catch the eye of those BLUs and DRKs too. Standing back and using staves would still mean better spells, but if we're extra-accurate elven bladesinger-alikes, then us stepping out front instead wouldn't be such a ridiculous notion in the right situation.

    Another way us meleeing could be made situationally useful would be to give us Enstatus spells roughly as accurate as our normal enfeebles. While this may sound bizzare, consider this: What would be a better way of sticking Silence on Kirin -- spending time and MP over and over again from the back lines until it finally lands, or spending time and MP once and daggerburning Kirin until it sticks? The latter would certainly be faster, more MP-efficient, and would leave the RDM freer to react to problems. Basically, balance things such that Enstatuses are a better idea on magic-resistant mobs than the regular spells are. The ability to enfeeble colibri by this method is also a plus.
    Heavens, yes.

    Also, I was chatting with Armando earlier today (actually, technically yesterday from where I am), and the busy-ness issue of Red Mage was something that came up. So I figured "why not bring the legendary Red Mage ability Doublecast in to the mix?" It may seem odd how Doublecast would work in an online scenario, but what I figure is this:

    Doublecast - Level 30-or-so Red Mage Job Ability
    Recast Time: Maybe 4:00?
    Duration: I'm thinking 1:00

    Insta-casts every other spell.

    The only thing about this is some Red Mages might cast something like Dia every other other time so they would get something close to Chainspelling every four minutes, but then I thought "wait a minute, the way I have this set up, recast times aren't affected."And then I thought "well, if a Red Mage wants to use a fast-casting spell every other other spell, and reserve the insta-cast for longer spells, more power to them for using the ability to their fullest."

    As for the being subbable thing, well, Doublecast was able to be memorized as a Red Mage and transferred to other jobs in some of the other FF games (in fact, it was a prime strategy for character advancement in some of them). In said games, Doublecast was pretty much all Red Mages had going for them, also. So I figured "well, why not use it to help make Red Mages slightly less busier, and why not also make Red Mage a more attractive sub for other Mages, seeing as all it really had going for it anyways was Fast Cast?"

    Also, another thing regarding Enspells: another fix which I have been suggesting for a while is having Enspells eliminate the need for Elemental Staves by having them turn your weapon in to an Elemental, well, weapon! That's sort of the concept of Enspell in the first place, turning your weapon in to an elemental weapon, so why not have Enspells also make your Sword/Dagger enhance your respective elemental spells that way, in a manner not at all unlike the Elemental Staves.

    Basically, the Enspells give +Potency and +Accuracy for each of their respective elements, as well as the added elemental damage, just like the Staves themselves. Maybe said bonuses are added in an Enspell II list; my point is, if a Red Mage can reproduce the effect himself with the weapon of his choice, why on Vana'diel would they use (or even want to use) a Staff? This would go with the Magical Swordsmen feel perfectly.

    EDIT: I notice you didn't include SMN on your list, Pteryx.

    I have lots of stuff I want to say about SMN, but I'm tired, and I'll just let Malacite do that for me. <_<
    Last edited by Yellow Mage; 02-23-2008, 09:02 PM.
    Originally posted by Armando
    No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
    Originally posted by Armando
    Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
    Originally posted by Taskmage
    GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

    REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

    GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

    THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
    Originally posted by Taskmage
    However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
    Matthew 16:15

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

      Originally posted by Pteryx View Post
      BLM: BLM's real problem is largely a community issue. That being said, BLM nukes and skillchain damage alike could be helped by one simple adjustment -- make resists less powerful. As it is, by my understanding, the best case scenario on a resist is half damage. Change it so that the best case scenario is 3/4 damage, and make the 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc. tiers of resist come after that. This would make both nuking and skillchaining more worthwhile -- and what do you get when you combine the two? This would have the side-effect of nerfing Barelement spells, however, though this could be fixed by making Barelements also reduce overall damage of the element by a small percentage.
      The problem with BLMs is not resists, but efficiency. Any BLM worth his salt can all but eliminate resists on standard monsters, except special monsters like Imps(I think these need to be fixed also, but that is another matter entirely). The real problem is while melee can keep going and going as long as they have adequate damage migitation, BLM and other mages need to take a kneel to rest to keep their potential up. The solution is obvious: A higher Conserve MP procrate for all mages. This would put BLM and WHM back into the mainstream while also giving some much needed help to PLD, DRK, and Melee/Mage jobs(e.x. DRG/WHM or BST/WHM)
      Originally posted by Ellipses
      Really, it's just like pretty much every question about this game that begins with "Why." The answer is "Because."
      Originally posted by MCLV
      A subjob is like sex, you shouldn't have it untill your 18 but if you don't have it after 21 everyone laughs at you.
      More Sig:

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

        This sort of thing comes up every time people speculate about what they'd like to see.

        RDM:
        Red mage is perfectly fine just the way it is. It's got a good selection of gear, a fantastic selection of spells, and a number of useful bonuses.

        I don't think a mild bonus to Magic Accuracy would hurt much, but it seems a bit too abusable for BLMs. I would prefer to see the terminally weak Enspell line buffed up with something more than just minimal damage; perhaps tacking on a chance of a status effect on a hit, like a small chance of Stun with Enthunder or Drown with Enwater, would be more than sufficient to mix up RDM's fighting arsenal.

        WHM:
        Scholar subjob is like a white mage's dream come true, but the problem now with white mage is that the game has moved on past the need for dedicated healers. White mages need something extra to differentiate themselves from their near-twins RDM and SCH aside from Protectra and Stona. A little extra Cure Potency would be a step in the right direction, and some Enmity Decrease traits would certainly help.

        BLM:
        Oh how the mighty have fallen. BLMs are still powerhouses at endgame, but the process of reaching level 75 has become a task akin to levelling BST. A stronger return to skillchaining is in order; it's gotten to the point these days when most melees don't even know what their primary weaponskills do as far as skillchain interaction.

        Not that I'm advocating going back to the old chain-ITs-with-skillchains-only method, but surely there's a happy medium somewhere in between that and today's no-skillchaining accidental TP burning methodology.

        PUP:
        Fix after fix after fix, and Puppetmaster still has yet to find an identity. This is probably the most improved job over the past several updates, and yet no one is really sure quite how they fit in; they're not a healer, they're not really a DD, they aren't a support job. Dancer subjob helps Puppetmasters quite a bit, but they still need something more unique to define them aside from the ability to weakly mimic the role of several other jobs.

        I'd like to see Puppetmaster Maneuvers strengthened in some way to benefit the user as well as the Automaton; perhaps using a Dark Maneuver gives the Puppetmaster a temporary Auto-Refresh trait, while a Fire Maneuver will give them a temporary Attack Up trait.

        DRG:
        Another perpetually-fixed-and-yet-never-quite-useful job.

        Activating Healing Breath off of casting a spell weaponskill feels incredibly artificial; Square-Enix needs to go back to the drawing board and give Dragoons some direct control over these abilities, in the same vein that they now have the Spirit Link ability.

        SCH:
        Many jobs are terrible for their first 36-40 levels. Scholar is one of the rare few that actually gets WORSE as it levels up. The spell list is so threadbare as to be nearly transparent, and the job abilities aside from the basic Arts are spaced too far apart to be useful. Most of the time, Strategem charges are used to make the Scholar perform at least adequately compared to their counterparts, instead of being job-defining. The later levels are worse; Helixes are weak and MP-intensive, and Storm spells to change the active weather effect on a target are just this side of worthless even at endgame.

        DNC:
        This is a pretty potent all-around job, but higher levels do seem a bit samey-same compared to earlier ones, just with bigger numbers. I don't know that this is necessarily a criticism, but I think it's definitely an issue if Square-Enix wants Dancers to be anything other than strange replacements for a healer in a party.

        WAR:
        Square-Enix needs to decide what the heck this job is supposed to do. Give the job some teeth by giving it a job ability like Scholar's which gives it an artificial bump in weapon skill level up to B rank in exchange for dropping defensive skills to D or lower and vice versa.

        MNK:
        Nothing wrong with Monk at level 75, but the earlier levels are rather a pain. Giving Monks something like Samurai's Hasso and Seigan stances would make perfect sense, since they already have Counterstance; some more stances that increase the flexibility of the job by improving the defensive power of Guard perhaps in exchange for some Evasion wouldn't be out of place here.


        Icemage

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!
          • WAR - More tanking tools, more Defense Bonus Traits.
          • MNK - Give it brains, please, this is the Ultimate AFK job.
          • THF - Assassin was nice, but they still need an EXCLUSIVE DD ability
          • RDM - Wait and see about the "frontline spells"
          • WHM - Give them Refresh, just do it. Its White Magic, fuck what RDMs think,
          • BLM - Turnabout is fair play, adjust Colibri to where they have a "stance" that reflects weaponskills.
          • NIN - Some Job Abilities between levels 2 and 74 would be nice.
          • BRD - Getting Single Target Song ability, but it needs to but pulled out of the "refresher" ghetto of endgame.
          • PLD - More Damage Mitigation ability, /DNC actually was a big boost, though.
          • DRK - They got a lot last year. Leave as is.
          • DRG - Some Job Abilities after 50 would be nice (Lancet would be a nice, classic addition).
          • SMN - Wait and see how the Spirit adjustment pans out, new avatars coming.
          • BST - New Jug pets, a prompt warning me my jug pet will expire. Aern BSTs get Xomits, c'mon, let BSTs at least have a couple mobs to charm in Sea and endgame Zilart palaces.
          • RNG - Something better than Hellfire for guns. No complaints otherwise
          • SAM - Can't think of anything.
          • PUP - New attachments
          • BLU - New spells, boost to magical Blue Spells.
          • COR - QD update forthcoming, new Rolls coming.
          • DNC - more "Steps." I'd like a few more enfeebles.
          • SCH - Blink and Stoneskin. Screw originality - these work.


          Misc Gripes - BLU gets both sea sets, COR, BLU, DNC and SCH don't get jackshit for armor from sea. DNC and SCH don't get anything from Sky, HNM or Salvage. This is kind of a large oversight. I can understand holding off ToA and WotG relic armor a bit longer, but this other stuff doesn't make much sense once DNC and SCH AFs are out.

          Lmnop makes a very good point. BRD is simply a powerhouse. No other job can enable meleeburn the way a BRD does. Perhaps a minor nerf is in order -- say, separating BRD's buff and debuff effectiveness into two modes that are on timers, similar to SCH or SAM. If balanced well, this would only hinder the renew-one-buff-Elegy-new-mob-repeat cycle that characterizes BRD meleeburn pulling, and merely require a reworking of strategies around the timers in other situations.
          Punish the good BRDs for what the bad BRDs do. Brilliant idea, we really need to repeat the absurdity of the RNG nerf.

          Originally posted by Icemage
          DRG:

          Another perpetually-fixed-and-yet-never-quite-useful job.

          Activating Healing Breath off of casting a spell weaponskill feels incredibly artificial; Square-Enix needs to go back to the drawing board and give Dragoons some direct control over these abilities, in the same vein that they now have the Spirit Link ability.
          Just to clarify: Healing Breath is activated by spells, wyvern status cures are triggered by weaponskills. That said, if DRG got the ability to command thier wyvern, BST should get the same. I should at least get to decide of my BST pets do single target or AoE attacks, even if I don't get to pick the attack itself.

          DRG is as useful as any other DD these days, they have a better accuracy rating now and are still your #1 SATA partner. Problem is, at endgame, everything (except AV) can be zerged these days with no real strategy involved - I think that needs more fixing than DRG at this point.
          Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 02-24-2008, 12:17 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

            BLM: It's a specialized job, and good at what it does. All it truly needs is some help leveling up. Add good level 40-75 mana-burn and BLM solo camps throughout WotG areas. (WotG pets are tough as hell, wtf?) As for getting them back into normal parties, I doubt a skillchain and MB adjustment would be enough. Perhaps some support magic, but that's not very fitting unless it's evil support magic, with some sort of cost attached. Perhaps "Fury" as a Dark magic spell, that gives the effect of Berserk. The "SABR" spell from FF1 would make nice fluff too, especially for lolClaustrum owners, and we all know SE loves fluff.

            SCH: A new line of Job Ablities, with it's own set of charges. We've seen the ability of scholars to enhance their own magic. Now we should see them enhance their allies. Call the new line "Commands" or whatever. The abilities would be focused around teamwork. The ability I'd want to see above all others is the ability to cause all party members' next weaponskill to consume only 100 TP. Let's call it "Charge!". How about a resting buff, "Halt", that grants Regen, Refresh, and Regain but only while /healing. There's potentially lots of things that could be done.

            Manifest-Gravity is already very useful in events where many enemies need to be slept (for keeping the Sleep/Lulluby casters safe from harm.) Perhaps some innate crowd control would give SCH a larger end-game niche. I'd love to play a true crowd control class.

            All that might be unreasonable though. Fine. Basic stuff then.

            Dark Arts: Affects cast, recast, and MP cost of Dark, Enfeeble, and Elemental spells rather than "Black Magic".

            Light Arts: Affects cast, recast, and MP cost of Healing, Divine, and Enhancing spells rather than "White Magic".

            New Stratagems: Next spell draws half enmity. Should be subbable. Perhaps level 30.

            Accession: Add Raise, Reraise, Warp, and spikes to the list of affected spells.

            Manifestation: Add Slow, Paralyze, Silence, elemental enfeebles, and helices to the list of affected spells.

            Ebullience: When used with a Helix spell, adds to the base damage instead of final damage.

            Helices: Increased base damage, an equivalent amount of which should be subtracted from the INT bonus.

            Storms: Shorter recast time or longer duration. Or both. More equipment, good equipment, with latents activated by weather. Things you'd use anyway, because it's good and can become great with weather to enhance it. Right now I can't think of much besides Obis and Raikiri that would see much use.

            Defense: Blink and stoneskin, at subable levels, or some fancy pants new spell that achieves the same end.

            No thanks: Haste, Refresh, and anything similar. Dislike of buff-cycles is why I don't play RDM. And I'd rather use stratagems for stuff you can't do without them.

            Originally posted by Icemage View Post
            The later levels are worse; Helixes are weak and MP-intensive
            Hmm? The numbers I've seen make them seem the very opposite of that (apart from HNM, where the INT difference brings the damage down to zilch.)

            Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
            [LIST][*]BLM - Turnabout is fair play, adjust Colibri to where they have a "stance" that reflects weaponskills.
            Heh. Not sure how that helps BLM, but thanks for the mental image.

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            • #7
              Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

              Originally posted by Coinspinner View Post
              Dark Arts: Affects cast, recast, and MP cost of Dark, Enfeeble, and Elemental spells rather than "Black Magic".

              Light Arts: Affects cast, recast, and MP cost of Healing, Divine, and Enhancing spells rather than "White Magic".

              New Stratagems: Next spell draws half enmity. Should be subbable. Perhaps level 30.

              Accession: Add Raise, Reraise, Warp, and spikes to the list of affected spells.

              Manifestation: Add Slow, Paralyze, Silence, elemental enfeebles, and helices to the list of affected spells.
              Glad to see you like my Innocence/Acquittal idea, but... as far as the rest of what's quoted here, I think much of it would make SCH and RDM run together a bit much, especially the Light Arts/Dark Arts adjustment. See, the thing that makes SCH feel different from RDM, rather than simply like RDM missing half its spells, is that while RDM's strengths lie in the points of intersection between white and black magic -- enfeebles, enhancing magic, "mixed" spells like Enelement, and so on -- SCH's strengths are supposed to lie at each magic type's extremes (though don't quite yet), with weaknesses where they overlap. (Though I don't see why Accession couldn't work with Raise and Reraise and Manifestation couldn't work with ele enfeebles and Helixes...) -- Pteryx

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              • #8
                Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                Originally posted by Icemage View Post
                Activating Healing Breath off of casting a spell weaponskill feels incredibly artificial; Square-Enix needs to go back to the drawing board and give Dragoons some direct control over these abilities, in the same vein that they now have the Spirit Link ability.
                You're missing the entire point of Dragoon.

                BSTs, SMNs, PUPs, they all control their pets. They issue orders and watch them fight. BSTs and SMNs generally don't care at all if their pets die, or even use it to their advantage, the PUP is somewhere in the middle. The Dragoon, however, fights with their pet. Their wyvern attacks what they attack, their wyvern bases it's actions off the Dragoon's actions. Spirit link is something that the Dragoon does to himself, not that the wyvern does. This is why some people didn't like the idea of the 2H being shorter, because it weakens the reliance and care DRG have for their pets.

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                • #9
                  Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                  Originally posted by Feba View Post
                  You're missing the entire point of Dragoon.

                  BSTs, SMNs, PUPs, they all control their pets. They issue orders and watch them fight. BSTs and SMNs generally don't care at all if their pets die, or even use it to their advantage, the PUP is somewhere in the middle. The Dragoon, however, fights with their pet. Their wyvern attacks what they attack, their wyvern bases it's actions off the Dragoon's actions. Spirit link is something that the Dragoon does to himself, not that the wyvern does. This is why some people didn't like the idea of the 2H being shorter, because it weakens the reliance and care DRG have for their pets.
                  The only thing that weakens the reliance is that we're relying on something so weak. I'm with you on most of your points, but Dragoon is it is is just another DD job with the added responsibility of babysitting.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                    The Wyvern does need more health and a few other boosts to make it easier to keep alive, but I still stand by the point that the focus should be on keeping it alive and taking care of it instead of "wait 10 minutes and respawn it".

                    Honestly, though, DRG needs the babysitting aspect, otherwise it's basically just DRK with a lance. Having more to do than watch TP and hit a few macros is what makes DRG different (and in my opinion, better) than other DDs.

                    It's a shame, the Wyvern could also use added intelligence, but FFXI won't ever get close to that. Even something like FF12's Gambit system would be great.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                      PUP actually has the "gambit" aspect, the more of a particular attachment you have, the more often it recognizes the opportunity to use it. Healing Breath and the wyvern status cure also play off criteria the wyvern recognizes.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                        Originally posted by Icemage View Post

                        BLM:
                        Oh how the mighty have fallen. BLMs are still powerhouses at endgame, but the process of reaching level 75 has become a task akin to levelling BST. A stronger return to skillchaining is in order; it's gotten to the point these days when most melees don't even know what their primary weaponskills do as far as skillchain interaction.

                        Not that I'm advocating going back to the old chain-ITs-with-skillchains-only method, but surely there's a happy medium somewhere in between that and today's no-skillchaining accidental TP burning methodology.
                        Actually, this back-to-the-basics approach to skillchaining is required. It has gotten to the point that due to meleeburns, over 80% of the melee in the game don't know how to Skillchain. When I actually convince a party to SC, I am the one looking up the WS combinations even as a mage. Don't even get me started on sky gods. The melee in my LS couldn't SC one of those if their RL lives depended on it.
                        Originally posted by Ellipses
                        Really, it's just like pretty much every question about this game that begins with "Why." The answer is "Because."
                        Originally posted by MCLV
                        A subjob is like sex, you shouldn't have it untill your 18 but if you don't have it after 21 everyone laughs at you.
                        More Sig:

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                        • #13
                          Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                          PUP actually has the "gambit" aspect, the more of a particular attachment you have, the more often it recognizes the opportunity to use it. Healing Breath and the wyvern status cure also play off criteria the wyvern recognizes.
                          I'm talking about customizable AI, not AI that depends on equipment, job levels, subjobs, and the like.

                          It would make sense, too, for a DRG to be able to train their wyvern. They are, after all, close friends.

                          Helluva lot more sense than the Wyvern using breath at higher %HP because of a goddamn hat, anyway.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                            Originally posted by Pteryx View Post
                            Glad to see you like my Innocence/Acquittal idea, but... as far as the rest of what's quoted here, I think much of it would make SCH and RDM run together a bit much, especially the Light Arts/Dark Arts adjustment. See, the thing that makes SCH feel different from RDM, rather than simply like RDM missing half its spells, is that while RDM's strengths lie in the points of intersection between white and black magic -- enfeebles, enhancing magic, "mixed" spells like Enelement, and so on -- SCH's strengths are supposed to lie at each magic type's extremes (though don't quite yet), with weaknesses where they overlap. (Though I don't see why Accession couldn't work with Raise and Reraise and Manifestation couldn't work with ele enfeebles and Helixes...) -- Pteryx
                            My experience in endgame activities is minimal, so I;m curious. Where/how would my proposed changes to Arts/Manifestation infringe on RDM's turf more than SCH already has?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

                              Originally posted by Feba View Post
                              The Wyvern does need more health and a few other boosts to make it easier to keep alive, but I still stand by the point that the focus should be on keeping it alive and taking care of it instead of "wait 10 minutes and respawn it".

                              Honestly, though, DRG needs the babysitting aspect, otherwise it's basically just DRK with a lance. Having more to do than watch TP and hit a few macros is what makes DRG different (and in my opinion, better) than other DDs.

                              It's a shame, the Wyvern could also use added intelligence, but FFXI won't ever get close to that. Even something like FF12's Gambit system would be great.
                              I was a fan of the lower recast for Call Wyvern simply because we didn't have the tools to keep the wyvern alive. I'm not sure of your experience with Dragoon, but I can't count on one hand how many times I've had a party in Bibiki Bay where the first goblin tossed a bomb and dropped her. Once while fighting the Elvaan crystal warrior she turned around and stuck her with an outrageously powerful Spirits Within.

                              I'd like for the bond to be strengthed between the job and the pet, and to see the recast raised back to two hours with the proper tools implemented. Spirit Link should be weakened, and the recast time should be dramatically shortened. I don't know of any situations where we're not attempting to keep both ourselves and the wyvern alive, except outside of battle, so it'd make for a nice balancing act. At the moment it's just a way to toss our wyvern some extra HP when the healer has some free time.

                              I also believe they should implement a Dragonheart ability of sorts that would allow us reraise if we die with our Wyvern present so we don't lose it so easily. It's kind of BS that SE is trying to stress the bond between the wyvern and dragoon and the thing flies off when we die. I can't think of many places where this could be abused easily, and I definately think it fits with the theme of the job.

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