Be nice to WMs :(

[Dnarris]

I'm just kind of curious.....what is the point to this thread?

[SmartieKjm]

some posters make statements like you should be in level 1-10 armour and focus on spells...i don't agree with that...you need up to date armour...

i played for a long while in level 1-10 armour up around 20's....and yes you shouldn't get hit often...but you do get hit a fe times..and if you don't have proper equipment you are going to die in one hit....you may say a mage who has good armour and not spells is not good to his party...but neither is a dead mage.

i have had much more success using armour up to my level...i can take a good number of hits as i have pretty decent defense...at level 30 i have 99 in defense including protect which adds about 10.

the provoker is not always going to be able to get the enemy off you...and you will draw hate eventually based on the high danage you do...it is a must imo to have proper equipment.

spells are most important and foods and stat boosters...but proper equipment is very important also imo.

[Kil'jaden]

>>3) You got an ingame girl friend. Dump her.

I dont understand what this has to do with being a WTM....


Also, yes a WTM needs armour, what kinda fruit would say "wtf do you need armour for?" Well duh, maybe because you are trying to level and dont need a party to slow you down? I have a good level WTM, and I solo just fine, infact I can live longer since I have all those buffs and debuffs.

Also, for all you who say WTM are cheap, hmm, can we recycle our gil we spent on those pricey spells like you can your out-of-date armour? Hell No. Remember you can auction your armour back we cant do that to our spells, we just eat it.

And furthermore, If a WTM is being a jerk why would you keep them in a PT? Matter of fact, why would you keep anyone thats a jerk in a party? I agree with not spending gil on useless spells, I only buy party spells, except for poisona, and protect, and a couple others just to buff/help other people, but for the most part, party spells are best because I can target me with them and a PT if I decide I want to do my good deed for the day. You people seem to forget I keep you alive, its my magic that makes sure you dont die from poison, or being paralyzed in battle, without me, you dont live to long. So how about showing your lifeline a little love, because a well equipped WTM can kill your unprovoked monster, but how many monsters can u survive without my cure? Not too many.

All i'm saying is remember your mannars and remember who keeps you alive, a little consideration goes a long way. And to those WTM that are dix.... hosake (FU), your makin us look bad.

[Dnarris]

Okay guys....everyone has to spend a large amount of money on all sorts of things. No one has priority for lots as far as costs are concerned. This thread really isn't going to settle the matter between those who believe it's one way or those that believe it's another.

[Nameless]

Your post is just spam, go away.

And I would have to agree, up-to-date spells > up-to-date armor (excluding RDM). I rather have WHM with Cure II rather than a doublet .

[zywack]

I don't know, but personally I pass on all scroll drops if the mages don't have it or items that are prefered by others. But I do lot on the rest. I need it, like everyone does.

To ask for favor would be that every time I go pull an enemy, I ask 8 gil to the party for the arrow. That every time I eat a Meat Mithkabob to do more damage with my sneak attack, I ask for 240 gil. Or that when I am ranger that I become a cash-in machine:

"Insert gil here!"
"1 shot for 20 gil or 5 shots for 90!"

Every arrow I shoot is throwing gil out. I need my + accuracy item if I wish to be helpful to the team. I need the ranger bows which are incredibly expensive. And like the white mage, I can't easily go and solo stuff to make money: Killing costs me money. I never saw a ranger ask for preferential drops though...

I have one complaint against some white mage: They are important to the group, and they use that fact at the detriment of others. For example, in the Dunes I had formed an exp party, and only the whm didn't have her skull. At night, we stopped normal leveling and looked all over the dunes to find her a skull. We found one in the first night, and she leaves three minutes after she gets it. Everyone in the group was annoyed to say the least, but it doesn't change anything for her. Why? Because she knows she is important, and that she can afford to annoy as many people as she want: as a white mage, she will always have plenty of parties fighting over her still. So it is that type of white mage that annoys me: We are a team going for the same goal. Respecting and helping each other is to everyone's profit, but when someone gets tons of invites even they are grouped, it is easy to start thinking oneself as superior to the others...

[Thoronas]

You know what? I feel really bad for whm because they can't solo, I really do. But at the same time cry me a river about whm have it so tough. Whm is boring? Ok how is clicking on your friend and casting a spell any different then clicking on a enemy and casting a spell? All you are doing is clicking on different targets. That is exactly how my roommate who is a whm looks at it. His job is very slightly different then any other job. I respect him because he hasn't developed that piss poor attitude alot of whm have developed.

I think that war who took the ruby because he was "thinking" of being summoner was an ass. If he had been in my party I would have booted him before lotting ended just so he couldnt take it.

Also whm can make lvling easy but if you can't find a whm it's not the end of the world. I have had a group with 4 war a rdm and a blm and we were chaining goblins in delfkutt for hours and getting 188 exp a pop. Just remember that next time you have a whm with an attitude, you may need them but they damn sure need you just as much and if no one will party with them because of their attitude then they're out of luck.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Atma
As a melee character, you do not ever LOSE money. You simply invest it into armor, or weapons, or so forth. When it comes time for you to upgrade, you mearly sell the old stuff back, on average losing a maximum of 5% of it's initial value. This means that as a melee character, you merely need only to have X gil, where X is the sum total of your current set of armor.

So, when a warrior moves from scale, which costs, say, 3000g for a full set at todays prices, to bone, which is about, 12k, you don't need to make 12k. You need to make over the course of those levels, 9k. To move to beetle, you need to make 3k. Etc, soforth. with spare cash you can buy "wants", like spike necklaces and such. Stuff that makes you better, but is not necessary to possess. If, at a later point, you NEED money to upgrade to your next weapon, you can sell that stuff back and reinvest.

This is not true for mages. The 35,000g a whm spends on holy is gone forever.

You obviously aren't including RNG or NIN. At least it doesn't cost you money to cast.

[PetriW]

I checked with a ranger what she spent on arrows in a party last night where she went from 27 to 30. She had brought arrows for about 12000, so RNG is probably about the same as whm for expenses imho, very scientific research. :angel:

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by PetriW
I checked with a ranger what she spent on arrows in a party last night where she went from 27 to 30. She had brought arrows for about 12000, so RNG is probably about the same as whm for expenses imho, very scientific research. :angel:

Are you serious?

• When a WHM is buying new spells, a RNG probably needs to buy new equipment
• RNG spends more on equipment than mages do on spells
• RNG is required to buy ammo to do anything

For example, look at this post. In a typical RNG PT, RNG can be expected to bring 7-8 stacks of arrows (2500g each), and 2 stacks of bullets (7000k each). Those costs are to MAKE that ammo, not BUY it.

RNG is dropping over 30k gil in consumable ammo alone. Then he gets to go out and buy insanely expensive equipment.

I understand that the point of this thread is that "poor WHM has no money compared to melee classes," but seriously, when you start saying that WHM has it worse off than RNG, it just makes you lose credibility.

[PetriW]

Well, all arrows don't cost 2500gil a stack and the ranger I compared with most certainly didn't use bullets.
What you seem to forget is that the ranger you see that from is a ranger powered by a level 70 character. He also clearly states he does not use silver bullets until past level 50. That cuts your 30k down to 20k. Now an NA ranger, ie someone without deep pocket use 1k a stack arrows and some 2k, resulting bringing maybe 8x1k + 2x2k in arrows or 12k, these arrows last for 2 to 3 levels. Let's say two to favor your side.
This means a ranger between 20 and 30 spends about 6k gil a level on consumables. Well, my spells cost more than that. 13 spells to buy between 21 and 31 and most cost 7500 or more (often 9000 in ah for the lazy). As for super expensive gear my current set is worth about 60k (not counting losses on selling back here, rng potentially lose more as there are more upgrade steps), I have no idea what a bow and gear costs at 30 but I'd guess it's around there up to 50% more.
End sum it's about the same if the whm wants to stay current in equipment and spells, 80% of whms I meet don't even come close though.
If you start a ranger you expect to spend a lot of gil, as a whm you don't but you'll find that you have to.

Note, I DO NOT condone whm using higher maintenance costs as an argument to get more phat lewtz. I do however get upset when people lot on spells that a member of the party can use for their main or subjob, need before greed. Likewise if a melee sees an item drop that is an upgrade I'll congratulate them on the upgrade.

Later on spells go up in prices but I have no idea how rng or whm costs go past 35, I'll wait until I get there and can see for myself.

I understand that the point of this thread is that "poor WHM has no money compared to melee classes," but seriously, when you start saying that WHM has it worse off than RNG, it just makes you lose credibility.

I never said that, you however need to read the posts you use for reference as you state invalid numbers for the specified level range.

[PetriW]

I have one complaint against some white mage: They are important to the group, and they use that fact at the detriment of others. For example, in the Dunes I had formed an exp party, and only the whm didn't have her skull. At night, we stopped normal leveling and looked all over the dunes to find her a skull. We found one in the first night, and she leaves three minutes after she gets it. Everyone in the group was annoyed to say the least, but it doesn't change anything for her. Why? Because she knows she is important, and that she can afford to annoy as many people as she want: as a white mage, she will always have plenty of parties fighting over her still. So it is that type of white mage that annoys me: We are a team going for the same goal. Respecting and helping each other is to everyone's profit, but when someone gets tons of invites even they are grouped, it is easy to start thinking oneself as superior to the others...

Just have to point out that an ass is an ass no matter what the job. I've so far helped 9 people get their skull and I haven't even been with a subjob to the dunes, everyone should help at least 5 others get their skull.
When hunting that magicked skull was the first time I found some real lasting friends in FFO, I bet if you had to pick between a jerk whm and an unknown you'd pick the unknown. The thing with mmorpgs is that your reputation will haunt you, since you need so much time reaching a decent level "remaking" just isn't really an option.

[Fadedsoul]

let me put it this way. without Updated spells you are USELESS. I will NEVER invite a redmage into my PT's that doesn't have refresh (120k gil on my server). I will NEVER invite a whm without an updated protectra.
mages are casters, so without updated spells to cast you have NO use AT ALL. DO you get it? it's an easy concept. If you can afford spells and armor, great, if you have to choose one or the other, only a fool would choose armor over spells. No one gives a fat rats behind if you have high def for a whm if you can't cast the spells your suppose to.

I've seen rdm KICKED out of PT's because instead of casting like a mage should they tried to fight. (this is on topic, he wouldn't back up heal and he spent his money on nice armor and a sword... and he didn't have refresh)

and for the people that think i'm wrong and stuff don't get it let me say it really simple for you.

Mage without updated spells = USELESS, go home.

Mage without updated spells = ranger without a bow

You better buy spells first. And don't tell me how hard you get hit at level 20, I played a whm to 30 so you can't give me that "I die in one hit! Whaaaa!" garbage. Hello? BLINK?!! You can cast that at like 17 and it's a cheap spell. And stoneskin is nifty too. Besides, you can get RSE at 33ish fairly easy, that'll last you til AF in most races cases.