Be nice to WMs :(

[Atma]

No, Accuracy rings are a want, not a need. A 30th level DRK without +accuracy rings is less effective. A 30th level whm without Cure III is worthless.

Mages in this game have a severe problem with money, far more so then any melee in this game. I initally was a whm, but currently I am levelling up dragoon. So far, while playing dragoon, I have done nothing but MAKE money. Here's why.

As a whm, I was constantly, constantly scrounging for cash to buy spells. Melees, no problem. Here's why.

As a melee character, you do not ever LOSE money. You simply invest it into armor, or weapons, or so forth. When it comes time for you to upgrade, you mearly sell the old stuff back, on average losing a maximum of 5% of it's initial value. This means that as a melee character, you merely need only to have X gil, where X is the sum total of your current set of armor.

So, when a warrior moves from scale, which costs, say, 3000g for a full set at todays prices, to bone, which is about, 12k, you don't need to make 12k. You need to make over the course of those levels, 9k. To move to beetle, you need to make 3k. Etc, soforth. with spare cash you can buy "wants", like spike necklaces and such. Stuff that makes you better, but is not necessary to possess. If, at a later point, you NEED money to upgrade to your next weapon, you can sell that stuff back and reinvest.

This is not true for mages. The 35,000g a whm spends on holy is gone forever.

The ONLY justifiable time that I can think of where a WHM should have to lot against someone for a carbunkle ruby is when there's a) another whm in the party, or b) a blm in the party. Melee should NOT be lotting for carbuncle rubies, unless all the mages have them. If you want to play a summoner, level up your planned subjob and get it your second time through. Summoners without summons or maxed subjobs (actually without both, but whatever) are the most worthless characters in the game.

[Sirhc]

Originally posted by Atma
No, Accuracy rings are a want, not a need. A 30th level DRK without +accuracy rings is less effective. A 30th level whm without Cure III is worthless.

Mages in this game have a severe problem with money, far more so then any melee in this game. I initally was a whm, but currently I am levelling up dragoon. So far, while playing dragoon, I have done nothing but MAKE money. Here's why.

As a whm, I was constantly, constantly scrounging for cash to buy spells. Melees, no problem. Here's why.

As a melee character, you do not ever LOSE money. You simply invest it into armor, or weapons, or so forth. When it comes time for you to upgrade, you mearly sell the old stuff back, on average losing a maximum of 5% of it's initial value. This means that as a melee character, you merely need only to have X gil, where X is the sum total of your current set of armor.

So, when a warrior moves from scale, which costs, say, 3000g for a full set at todays prices, to bone, which is about, 12k, you don't need to make 12k. You need to make over the course of those levels, 9k. To move to beetle, you need to make 3k. Etc, soforth. with spare cash you can buy "wants", like spike necklaces and such. Stuff that makes you better, but is not necessary to possess. If, at a later point, you NEED money to upgrade to your next weapon, you can sell that stuff back and reinvest.

This is not true for mages. The 35,000g a whm spends on holy is gone forever.

The ONLY justifiable time that I can think of where a WHM should have to lot against someone for a carbunkle ruby is when there's a) another whm in the party, or b) a blm in the party. Melee should NOT be lotting for carbuncle rubies, unless all the mages have them. If you want to play a summoner, level up your planned subjob and get it your second time through. Summoners without summons or maxed subjobs (actually without both, but whatever) are the most worthless characters in the game.

i almost fully agree. that which i do not agree on is not a very big deal, as they are small details.

Originally posted by Icemage

Like some of the above posters, I personally don't think WHM should get first loot picks on money-related drops, but I generally operate on a "need before greed" principle, and most nice players I run into follow a similar philosophy.

If a Reraise scroll drops, and your WHM doesn't have it yet - you should give the scroll to the WHM, don't you think? I do the same thing for warriors - if I'm in Davoi and a nice piece of armor drops from an Orc, I just pass on the item without comment. If a BLM needs Escape or Tractor in Qufim, guess who I'm going to suggest gets it if one drops? I don't need the item, and I certainly couldn't care less about the money. I'm in XP groups to XP, not to make money. If I want to make money, there are far better, faster, and more efficient ways to make it than fighting over drops in a group.


Icemage

i also follow this, often asking if someone needs this equipment/scroll if i don't need it myself.

i may have only played a RDM to 30, however, i know the cost to mages all too well. if a ruby drops, the mages who do not have it should have priority over the melees. the opposite applies as well: if something drops that melee jobs can use they should have priority on lotting.

because i have only played with people of little game exp, i often would melee as a RDM allong with enfeebling/healing and throwing in an extra nuke here and there. my only problem there was that i never had any gil. the most i ever had on me at one time was 10k! the equipment i was meleeing with at lvl 30 was lvl 10 bastok conquest armor! i also didn't have half of all the spells i should have had and i had no chance in hell of affording dispell soon after 30.

it's a biasist opinion,yes, but i think the RDM has the hardest time with money.

[Carbon]

Arg, no one said WMs should get everything. I said if a WM comes out and claims they're searching for one certain item in an exping group - like a crab apron, damsefly worm, or carbuncle gem (which are all found on good exping mobs), then people should be courteous enough to let them go ahead and have it. A melee can easily kill these same mobs in a few levels. At lv30, a taru WM still takes a good 4 minutes to kill a Valkurm leech while a lower level monk was dropping them pretty quick. You can lot on whatever the hell else you want, but don't be assheaded and take items from a group-reliant WM who's already said he's been searching for the item for four days.

I disagree with this. By the time items like these are needed, every job is pretty much group reliant, and needs a group to get said items. Of course, as you said above, you could wait until you can solo for the item, but why do that when you can better do it in a group?

Having said that, a WHM can find a group to hunt these items MUCH easier than say, a WAR.

I'm not saying the WAR should get first pick of the loot, but I don't think the WHM should get preferential treatment either.

If the group disbands and the WHM didn't get the item, he/she can easily slip into another group and get the item. Worst case scenario, a WAR will be sitting around unemployed looking for a group generous enough to take him/her.

[Nameless]

I partied with a WHM in a group while I was 19 and they were 17 and a skull dropped (I didn't have it, and figured I could have it because it is quite sad that I don't have a sub), the WHM said WHM are more important and that they deserved it, there was a lvl 18 RDM. I believe me or the RDM should have got it, but no, the WHM is more important they deserve it. I hate that WHM;
^^ I'M WHM I need a skull that I can't use more than you ^^ pass to me, I deserve it more, give it to me ^^ You don't need it I do because I'm a WHM ^^ sucking is an acceptance for you ^^
(actuall dialog )

whatever, I got my skull later, but that RDM still needs one.

EDIT: Spells aren't that much, armor is just as much.
Cure II is like what 650? pfft, more armor is 5 times more than that (low lvl armor btw), mages don't have it that bad and should get over it.

[Negorath]

^^ I'M WHM I need a skull that I can't use more than you ^^ pass to me, I deserve it more, give it to me ^^ You don't need it I do because I'm a WHM ^^ sucking is an acceptance for you ^^

OMGWTF!?

*slap*

[Nameless]

It's /slap n00b.

[Negorath]

bah

[PetriW]

Cure II is like what 650?

Cure II isn't an issue, 21+ spells are though. About 15k for 21-25 spells alone.
And skull being more important to a whm is utter bullshit. :p

[Elementalmaster]

Yeah well u should join my clan EM! need more members.

[Kei]

Originally posted by Elementalmaster
Yeah well u should join my clan EM! need more members.

That one came out of nowhere huh?



People...it's called respect. Everyone has different needs, but all players have both wants and needs. We shouldn't loot whore, no matter the class we play. Don't complain if you chose to be that class. It was your decision. WHMs should let Paladins and Warriors loot because they save their behind constantly from getting mauled by a monster. Warriors and Paladins or whoever should let WHMs loot some too, because without them, they'd most likely die. It's respect, plain and simple. If you don't have it, you really shouldn't be playing an MMORPG, because nobody will like you, simple as that!!! In FFXI, "You are the hero". Yeah right. You wouldn't live without the other classes and other people who are playing the same role, just at their house. Get a clue, it's not all about you! Just have respect for each other and allow equality in looting. I agree that mages should be allowed the Carbuncle Ruby, especially in that situation. Seems to me that guy was just an arse. FFXI is designed to bring people together whether you agree with that or not. It's designed for teamwork and to have fun. Get over yourself, lol

[Fadedsoul]

<call4>

YOUR ALL MISSING THE POINTT!!!!!!!!!

Exp groups are for EXP. Loot that drops in an exp group EVERYONE has a right to. I have a 30 whm and never once asked for anyone to play favorites for me, and I've booted whm that feel they are entitled to more than everyone else.

If you want money for spells FARM dangit. Raamo and Jerith are not only at my level, but they find time to farm constantly. Each of them has earned well over 100 thousand gil for spells on thier own free time.

There, I just completely blew away your "reasons" for not having money. I took a whm 1 to 30 and it did cost alot but i managed to get all my spells off normal drops from exp PT's. If you want the BIG ones like refresh and stuff your going to need to farm.

odds are if your a whm under 30 without all your spells, heres why:

1) You bought armor. Tell me, why the heck do you need armor? If you don't suck, you shouldn't get hit much. Don't say "well what if..." because i've been where you are, there aren't enough sucky tanks to justify buying armor over spells.

2) Buying spells just because you can use them. Thats something you do after you farm. Do NOT buy spells you'll never use. I never got Banish II or Dia II because I knew i wouldn't use them. But you can bet your sweet behind I got raise, regen and Cure III and Curaga II.

3) You got an ingame girl friend. Dump her.


Be mindful of those 3 things. I cannot respect the whines of a level 25 whm without raise, if she's wearing level 20 armor. In fact, I'll never PT with her again. Give me a level 25 whm with all her spells and level 1 armor. She's 10 times more useful.

[Fadedsoul]

Originally posted by Kei


That one came out of nowhere huh?



People...it's called respect. Everyone has different needs, but all players have both wants and needs. We shouldn't loot whore, no matter the class we play. Don't complain if you chose to be that class. It was your decision. WHMs should let Paladins and Warriors loot because they save their behind constantly from getting mauled by a monster. Warriors and Paladins or whoever should let WHMs loot some too, because without them, they'd most likely die. It's respect, plain and simple. If you don't have it, you really shouldn't be playing an MMORPG, because nobody will like you, simple as that!!! In FFXI, "You are the hero". Yeah right. You wouldn't live without the other classes and other people who are playing the same role, just at their house. Get a clue, it's not all about you! Just have respect for each other and allow equality in looting. I agree that mages should be allowed the Carbuncle Ruby, especially in that situation. Seems to me that guy was just an arse. FFXI is designed to bring people together whether you agree with that or not. It's designed for teamwork and to have fun. Get over yourself, lol

mages and tanks need alot of money. Tanks need just as much. Buying armor means DEF, DEF means they can survive. Don't ever say a warrior or paladin don't need money as bad. Yes, they can sell thier old armor and mage can't sell back thier spells, but you can sell a suit of beetle armor for 10k, still won't have the 70k you need for centurion.

[Arguile]

I play blm/nin...and my gaming week looks something like this:
"Go have fun lvling/questing 1 day, go get money 1 day, go lvling/questing 1 day, go get money 1 day."

See, not only do we mages have to buy Armor, but we also have to buy scrolls, ninjutsu materials...

I know a lot of mages wear crappy armor, i spent 160 000gil buying a full set of Magna Armor. Not to mention the 100 000gil on 1 ninjutsu scrolls. Not to mention my countless other ungodly expensive scrolls.

So really, don't compare melee classes expenses with the expenses of mage classes. It simply doesn't compare. Our Armor is slightly less, and sometimes much more, expensive then your armor. And gee, you don't need to worry about paying 100k gil for certain scrolls.

And for fun, go to the Jeuno AH and just check the cost of whm/blm/rdm spells lvl 40-70 and see how much we need to spend.

I'm not saying Mage's should get first looting rights, far from it, i'm just saying mage classes in the game get the shaft in the cost department.

[Fadedsoul]

how about YOU go and look at weapon / armor prices. If i sold all my armor and weapons now I'd get 100k, the level 55 polarm i want cost 200k...

And a mage past level 35ish should be in RSE any darn way. And thats free. There is no excuse not to have RSE, it's a simple simple quest. Every good mage I know has farmed enough to buy all thier spells, and they are wearing either L 1 - 10 armor or RSE.

mage in new armor without spells = Moron

your nothing to your PT but a caster, if you can't cast, your utterly useless.

[Thingol]

"I play blm/nin...and my gaming week looks something like this:"

"See, not only do we mages have to buy Armor, but we also have to buy scrolls, ninjutsu materials..."

No mages do not have to buy armor and ninjutsu materials...YOU ARE A NINJA...derrr :dead:

Look the 2 excuses I've seen the most in this thread is 1. don't upgrade your armor as often and 2. resell your armor.

OK 1. Tank = armor.. a tank is only as good as thier armor. As a whm do you want the tank taking damage for you that is 10 levels lower than them? Guess what? They are either gona suck up all your mana very quickly, so if you don't have a bard or alot of drinks they are going to die and you are going to die. A tank that does not have the best defensive armor for thier level is a paper tank and if you know they have subpar armor and party with them, you probably shouldn't complain if you get K.O.'ed (following them of course..it is a tanks job to be the first one on the floor).

2. This is a fine concept in theory.. again..in theroy. Fact is the markt just doesn't work like this much of the time. Lets take the chain mail example. Right now costs on my server are exorbananty high. More like 40-45K for a set. This is not including a shield or weapon. WHy is this? There are a ton of tanks between 24 and 30. When I told some of my Japanise friends how much this cost atm they couldn't belive it. They said that 2 -3 months ago the same armor went for 15K tops. (less than just the tunic atm). Well, think about a month from now... most tanks will level past 30 and suddenly the market will be floded with used cainmail. What will happen to the price? Think about the price of fire crystals (gone from 4k to 800-1k since I started playing). I am fully expecting to eat 3/4 of my cost which is about 30K. Again this is not including anything other than armor.

Fact of it is, I have always played NBG. I am level 27 because I have spent probably half the nights I intended to XP helping others get items. Alot of the other time I spend farming to upgrade my stuff. Anyone can farm cash of crawlers and fishing in Windhurst. I do my best to make NBG absolute. If you aren't going to use a drop for crafting and somone ellse can ... give it to them. I'm more than happy to hand over all the ores I get to smiths and gold crafters in excange for rock salt. Rock stalt? ya it sells for 100 per 12 when siver ore sells for 600 each. I'm boiling crayfish to up my cooking so it's valuable to me. I haven't started smithing..wy would I make someone ellse, whatever class buy the drop so I can sell it for 600. I would have essentialy robbed them of 600 gil.

When it comed down to it I simply don't see much of a difference overall in the cost of almost any job but ranger and ninja. Perhapse pure melees like monk and thief are cheeper..

As for being able to get a set of chainmail in Murtha for 20K..Oh if only that were so... I would have no more money problems. I could spend a day buying the stuff and riding to other towns and makeing 20-25K proffit of each ride...

"I heard in Kazam you can get refresh for 8K...."