Game Balance and User Frustration

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

[citation needed] because, no, nothing was done to Flash.

Going by what Cid and Armando said, it might have just been me noticing the VE decay. If so then my mistake.

[Bigfish]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

You say that WoW was less frustrating... but yet you complain about time-consuming world-map travel. Explain your thought process please.

WoW's world travel has become a joke. The world is practically just a lobby server you hang out in until your BG/dungeon/whatever pops and then you're transported instantly. That's actually one of the reasons I came back to FFXI, even after all these years and so many ports added, it still feels like a world instead of a pretty chat room.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Flash only ever had VE going for it

Flash was (is?) 180 CE 1280 VE, making it pld's only CE tool other than cures.

Blind, Sleep and Sleep II are 1 CE/300 VE now if Kaeko's enmity table is up to date.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

You say that WoW was less frustrating... but yet you complain about time-consuming world-map travel. Explain your thought process please.

[Mhurron]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

They did this with Flash too.

[citation needed] because, no, nothing was done to Flash.

[Armando]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Wait a sec, when did they nerf Flash? I knew about the Bind/Blind/Sleep nerf, it just slipped my mind.
EDIT:

Blind on the other hand built up...I want to say it was about 300 CE and 600 VE?

Blind was 640 VE and no CE, which is about half a Flash. Sleep was the one with CE. What Blind had going for it was a really short recast timer.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I don't think they did anything to Flash, but then Flash only ever had VE going for it so it was more about spiking hate rather than holding it. Blind on the other hand built up...I want to say it was about 300 CE and 600 VE? Those numbers might be a bit off and the enmity table has been edited so I don't know for sure what the old values are now.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

They reduced the enmity on flash? How the hell is a paladin supposed to hold hate?

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

They did this with Flash too. You can't really do it anymore now due to how hard Abyssea mobs will hit you but back in ToAU, it was perfectly possible for a WHM to tank an Imp in emergencies (Anf Off-Tank on Colibri if any woke up early). They never really hit for much and as long as nobody fed them TP, a WHM could hold hate from one of those for a long time.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

since Blind is a relatively high-hate enfeeble

Nitpicking: was, past tense. They redid enmity on a bunch of enfeebles a while back to nerf RDM tanking.

I do miss it being high hate for the added layer of awareness it required and the utility of being able to spam it for hate on the off-chance you ever needed to.

[Neverslip]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

At least it's still technically about RDM frustration.

There's so few of those threads out there too...

[Armando]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

How often was RDM invited to EXP because of it's Enfeebling Magic? Almost never (dispel doesn't count - they could have still made that spell RDM only and given them B- skill). We all know the real reasons RDM got EXP at 40+.

I won't deny that RDM's main reasons for invites were Haste/Refresh post-41, but back in the day, around 2005-2006, I used to invite RDMs to enfeeble. Back then people blindly followed Campsitarus instead of using their own judgment on when it was appropriate to move to a new camp based on the party level and the mob levels, so you'd often get parties that were too low level for the camp they were attempting. Enfeebling an IT++ mob isn't easy for a WHM or BLM. They're prone to resists, which means wasting even more time and MP on enfeebling instead of doing their real jobs. Plus, for enfeebling to be truly effective you need to apply it as soon as the battle starts.

Having a RDM doing dedicated enfeebling means the WHM and BLM can get an extra tick or two of MP at the start of fights and less MP is wasted on enfeebling overall. They also don't need to interrupt healing to reapply worn debuffs. Other beneficial side effects of having a RDM enfeebler around included extra crowd control (which counted for a lot back then when a fight could last over 90 seconds easily and links were fucking deadly), and Gravity is awesome since it helped melees hit the mob and it bought time for the tank to get back hate if the mob turned to the mages. Also, Crabs and Crawlers were ideal EXP targets but good luck getting past Coccoon/Scissor Guard without a dispeller. Another indirect benefit is that it kept the WHM and BLM's hate lower, since Blind is a relatively high-hate enfeeble and you definitely don't want to get resisted and have to recast it on WHM or BLM.

Of course I also invited them for the jack-of-all-trades aspect. A RDM doing backup healing can also allow WHMs to get longer and more efficient rest periods, and the RDM could contribute to Magic Bursts along with the BLM. But that was something you could get by inviting an extra WHM or BLM; the other benefits weren't as easy to replace. A RDM helped the WHM and BLM perform really smoothly, it just did so in very subtle and indirect ways, unlike a BRD where the effect is directly seen in your MP gauge. Of course with T-VTs being the norm, all of that flew out the window. And like you said, post-41 Refresh became the main selling point even if the rest of the utility value was still there.

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Me, too! Me, too!

I have a macro that goes something like this for when I get to proc Yellow or Red:

/ma "Banish II" <t> or /ws Seraph Strike <t>
/p "I'M HELPING!"

[Squiggs]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

this might just be one of the longest hijackings of a 'Whine-post'

At least it's still technically about game-balance and RDM frustration.

[NightShayde]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I procced with Dispel once. True story.

Me, too! Me, too!