Game Balance and User Frustration

[Neverslip]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I simply think this funny... this might just be one of the longest hijackings of a 'Whine-post' I've seen in a very long long time.

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I'm not so sure RDM needed to specialize in anything.

How often was RDM invited to EXP because of it's Enfeebling Magic? Almost never (dispel doesn't count - they could have still made that spell RDM only and given them B- skill). We all know the real reasons RDM got EXP at 40+.


I blame it more on SE half-assing the job. They give RDM decent nuking tools, but then screw them over with C+ skill instead of B+ or A- (DRK has higher elemental magic skill than RDM somehow...) They give them the ability to melee, but give them largely crappy gear selection outside of Joyeuse and a few all-jobs haste items, B- skill, and restricted certain weaponskills - a mistake they rectified with BLU, but still haven't seen fit to remedy for RDM. I understand that they can't make it too good, but these are largely little things that would have gone a long way towards helping the job be a bit more versatile/attractive without breaking game balance entirely.

[Armando]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

By "back then" I mostly mean "pre-ToAU." Not that they succeeded in making PUP wanted for parties, but they clearly had much more interesting ideas by ToAU than designing a job that spams 2 or 3 songs all party long or a job that just stands there and punches things, occasionally popping Berserk and Focus.

[Etra]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

As for DRK, clearly SE was not very good at designing jobs back then.

Wasn't DRK designed after RDM? (At least, in the production of things, RDM was designed first.)

[Armando]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I never understood why RDM got to specialize in it in the first place when it's not meant to be a master of anything.

Because after the game came out SE realized that the job needed a niche if it wanted party invites beyond "well, we're all out of WHMs and/or BLMs so I guess we'll have to take a RDM." People will never bring a generalist over a specialist in an MMO unless they're going for a low-man or the generalist brings something unique to the table.

As for DRK, clearly SE was not very good at designing jobs back then.

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Adequate at many roles but not preferred at any is, imo, the correct balance of power for rdm. Having a niche in the enfeebling department was nice, too, and it worked out because it was something we could excel at that didn't let us eclipse any other job in traditional party roles. When rdm actually became preferred over whm that was obviously a big screw-up on SE's part and it's a good thing that's no longer the case. What's happened now, though, is that rdm is no longer even adequate at any of the roles it performs.

But even that though, struck me as odd.

Why isn't DRK the big enfeebling guy? It kind of is, but not enough. I never understood why RDM got to specialize in it in the first place when it's not meant to be a master of anything. Again, enfeebling makes more sense on DRK, at least to me, given what DRK is. It just fits the job so perfectly, more so than any other as it's all about big damage and terrorizing your enemies with twisted magic - and what's more twisted than debilitating status ailments?


I wouldn't say it's not adequate at anything anymore, at least not inside Abyssea. If anything Abyssea has proven to be the great liberator for RDM, since you can use gear & atma to basically set yourself up for whatever rolls you wish to play.


Since they did give RDM A+ Enfeebling though, they may as well run with it for future updates. Some more unique debuffs or higher tiers of existing spells would be nice. Maybe Bind II that doesn't break when you hit the target for example. Some decent melee gear (that isn't a complete bitch to obtain) would also be a wonderful addition. It's like RDM gets too much hybrid gear that it just doesn't need - unless SE ever decides to tweak the job again to help enable hybrid playstyles. I've long advocated a RDM-only trait that allows you to melee and cast magic simultaneously. Casting while moving would be cool, but the potential for abuse with that would be way too great.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I procced with Dispel once. True story.

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

The WHM can cover that by subbing RDM or SCH.

EDIT: Ninja'd but yeah, anyone subbing RDM or SCH can cast Dispel.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Except for Dispel.

Relevant three hours out of every seven and odds are the blm or whm will be subbing rdm or sch. Yeah.

[Elwynn]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

All the proc spells a rdm gets are covered by the blm, so once the blm arrives there's really no point in the rdm.

Except for Dispel.

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Until the level cap was raised, RDM was one cure spell behind WHM. Raising the level cap changed this. giving RDM Cure V would not overpower it or make it the best healer (it never was), but it would allow RDM to more easily be used when a WHM can't be found, or actually useful in an Abyssea party.

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------



SCH needs Cure V too.

We still have 9 levels worth of spells to go. I can realistically see RDM and SCH getting access to Cure V. The reason why I laugh at people who whine about class balance right now, is that things may well change Balance-Wise at Lv99.

[Mhurron]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

1) Not making the class more powerful or as powerful as a specialist. This is actually the reason why I'm Anti-"Give RDM Cure V"

Until the level cap was raised, RDM was one cure spell behind WHM. Raising the level cap changed this. giving RDM Cure V would not overpower it or make it the best healer (it never was), but it would allow RDM to more easily be used when a WHM can't be found, or actually useful in an Abyssea party.

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

So long as we're on SCH, SE should throw those guys a bone and at least make helices proc yellow. >_>

SCH needs Cure V too.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So long as we're on SCH, SE should throw those guys a bone and at least make helices proc yellow. >_>

[Firewind]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I didn't mean to imply that, but thanks for pointing it out.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Honestly, a lion's share of the whiners about the RDM class would really be best off playing a Scholar. SCHs are a very versatile class that can switch roles on the fly if they are forced to but they won't be better than a BLM or WHM at nuking or healing respectively.

I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. While SCH can indeed switch roles on the fly, it cannot fill multiple roles at the same time the way Red Mage can. There's just too much of a bottle neck with Addendums and stratagems for them to do both at once the way a Red Mage can if hard pressed.

A Scholar and a back-line Red Mage do not offer the same utility.