Game Balance and User Frustration

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So bottom line is RDM doesn't need new gear - it needs access to more of the current melee gear that BLU can also wear.

Seriously what the hell? Is SE that paranoid of melee RDM suddenly overtaking the game and everyone just does 18 RDM in an alliance? ...

I don't know if that's what they're afraid of, but it does frustrate me when I think of how deliberate the shift seems. Even when pitted against BLU, for example. For a very long time, the 2 jobs had access to more or less the same melee gear. In fact, for a good while, some of the gear that was nice and relatively accessible for RDM were actually the same as that of jobs like DRG and THF.

Mhurron is probably right about the job getting less frontline updates because the majority of the playerbase demand for backline utility in the job.

So why do spiteful things like put the job on so much of the new Ranged damage dealing gear like Nemus Peti, Missile Boots, or Bersail Cap? Because it isn't as if people are clamoring for RDMs to be just like RNGs only with magic. But lock the job out of key new pieces like Loki's Kaftan? If the job really is not a big contender for a spot in the frontline, then giving the job the same gear availability it always had should be a harmless move.

[Armando]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So bottom line is RDM doesn't need new gear - it needs access to more of the current melee gear that BLU can also wear.

I don't think anything will allow RDM to melee unless the job is completely redesigned such that meleeing is necessary to accomplish the things the job is invited for. That's a damned tall order.

But I'm not a RDM. I don't have years of insight on endgame tendencies and the job's inner workings.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Oh. Pfft, I don't know these things. I just wear what other people wear.

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

So bottom line is RDM doesn't need new gear - it needs access to more of the current melee gear that BLU can also wear.

Seriously what the hell? Is SE that paranoid of melee RDM suddenly overtaking the game and everyone just does 18 RDM in an alliance? ...


Why Sanguine Scythe, just curious? Voracious Violet would probably help a lot more. Other jobs like WAR can get away with SS because they already have a lot of STR, TP Gain & Crit Damage (WAR +2 boots are just bullshit OP, they really are. Not to mention Twilight Gear for WS) while RDM has no native abilities to really enhance melee dps or TP gain, excluding the +15 acc from Composure.


Honestly though, give RDM Homam/Ocelot SE. There's no real good reason for locking out light-medium DD gear that BLU can also wear.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Just my 2 cents so take it for what it's worth, but at what point does RDM melee reach the level of "acceptable"?

Razed Ruins, Sanguine Scythe, and Gnarled Horn. Probably sounds like a sad commentary on the metagame today. But it is true.

Wait, what the fuck? You have a Zelus Tiara but you're bitching about a Goading Belt o-O ?!

D:

Our linkshell really isn't a dedicated Abyssea linkshell. I mean, we do it, but mostly to the end of getting people Shinryu access/win and key atma. Our linkshell leader put this out to everyone: "I'll help you kill your NMs, but you have to get the triggers."

Basically, all of my Empyrean+2 armor was a result of me getting triggers and our linkshell leader offering me help. Some of those triggers were a result for me farming the NM KIs on BST. Others were using the method you suggested- amber box farming. That is the way I did it for Amhuluk, Bukhis, Sobek, Titlacuaun, and Ulhuadshi. I could've probably also farmed NMs for some of those (like Amhuluk is fairly easy), but I also wanted to get Empyrean shoes for the rest of our linkshell.

Ultimately, our willingness to farm triggers amounts to our ability to get gear. But I'm burnt out from it.

So yeah, if I do it again, it will probably be for Lacovie. But unlike +2 drops, that isn't even 100%. And as I'm fond of ranting in this game, I am immensely turned off by luck factor when it comes to drops. My thing is: You can beat the mob, you deserve the drop. So that that is a huge deterrent to me even bothering with Lacovie. It probably sounds pathetic, but I get very distraught when I get people to help me kill something and it doesn't even drop the item I wanted.

Do you have the 3 add-on scenarios? The Redingote sucks regardless, even if you slapped on +10 acc and +3 crit rate but a Selenian Cap with Acc +10/Attack +5 and STR +4 / WS Acc +15 would be marginally better, lol. In fact the only one that seems even remotely worth it is the Tatsumaki Sitagoromo with Critical Hit Damage +3% and Accuracy +7.

I used my ACP body piece for my BST. A Pet Acc/Pet Double Attack body piece. I figure why not use it to get stats I can't get anywhere else? A lot of players might gripe about how inefficient it is. But I don't want to ask linkshell members to drop what they're doing just to help me get loot for myself so I saw it as an opportunity.

As for the situation with RDMs drop in desirability, I suppose I'm lucky I'm in such an inclusive linkshell. We don't turn people away from events based on jobs. You might be sitting on your hands a lot at events if you don't have the jobs we need, but dems the breaks. Luckily, I can still do stuff on RDM.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

All I can really say is that all the hidden calculations aren't doing us any favors on the parsers since its darn near impossible to determine how much damage a RDM saved by landing Blind on a mob, or how much extra damage did the melee do because of Gravity? Do fights even last long enough for it to matter? And so on...

These things are calculable but irrelevant. Ninjas tank everything and they can provide their own blind, slow and paralyze, and if not dealing enough damage is a concern, the solution is to invite another DD not a rdm. Inside abyssea a rdm basically has two assets: halfway decent nukes and the shortest recast time on stun. The only time I really feel justified bringing rdm to abyssea anymore is when we're up against something like Assailer Chariot or Xibalba or Dhorme Khimaira—mobs with moves than need to be stunned often and reliably. Outside abyssea rdm's selling point isn't in any particular function it performs but in having the best mp endurance available.

[Bigfish]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Just my 2 cents so take it for what it's worth, but at what point does RDM melee reach the level of "acceptable"? Or any of a RDM's roles really?

The thing with any sort of hybrid class is that they have to balanced just right. Too far in one direction, and they overshadow the single role jobs. Too little, and no one wants them. You also have to factor in skill, where a mediocre hyrbid may perform well in relation to a mediocre main, but a superb hybrid may outperform a superb main, or vice versa where a superb hybrid performs fine in relation to a superb main, but the mediocre hybrid is a joke to a medioce main.

Now, I've just come back from hiatus, so I can't really say where I think anything stands currently. All I can really say is that all the hidden calculations aren't doing us any favors on the parsers since its darn near impossible to determine how much damage a RDM saved by landing Blind on a mob, or how much extra damage did the melee do because of Gravity? Do fights even last long enough for it to matter? And so on...

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Wait, what the fuck? You have a Zelus Tiara but you're bitching about a Goading Belt o-O ?!

Or maybe he just listed items that would be needed to give 27% haste, not items he currently possesses.

*Hint* He doesn't have a goading belt but it's listed in there as well.

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Wait, what the fuck? You have a Zelus Tiara but you're bitching about a Goading Belt o-O ?!

Just do what most people do - gold box farm it.Get a buddy or two and if you can cap Azure Amber & Perle (shouldn't be hard rofl) and kill EP~DC mobs you should be able to get a few popsets in just over an hour without ever touching the 10 NMs (along with full popsets for Chloris and Glavoid which technically gives you each a 2nd Lacovie)

Looking over various slots... man RDM gets screwed out of a lot of prime melee gear that it SHOULD be able to wear, like Ocelot & Homam... WTF SE...

Shit even stuff like Ace's Sabatons would be wonderful and I'm pretty sure is considered medium armor not Heavy...

Also wiki's over-all lists are incomplete, which makes searching rather annoying.


EDIT: Yeah I'm not seeing anything you can use for better TP.

Do you have the 3 add-on scenarios? The Redingote sucks regardless, even if you slapped on +10 acc and +3 crit rate but a Selenian Cap with Acc +10/Attack +5 and STR +4 / WS Acc +15 would be marginally better, lol. In fact the only one that seems even remotely worth it is the Tatsumaki Sitagoromo with Critical Hit Damage +3% and Accuracy +7.


I don't know if RDM can use any of the new Voidwatch melee gear but I doubt it... yeah looks like you pretty much got all the gear nailed.


Oh course I maintain that ultimately, barring a few truly amazing pieces of gear like Epona's ring, it's all pointless speculation until we have 99 anyway with regards to equipment for all jobs. For all we know 99 gear could make AF3+2 look like complete crap.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Eh, Antares harness? Maybe for WS (Unless RDM can use Heca? Don't think it can though) but Goliard is still king for TP which is pretty sad but it's the only haste body RDM has access to and it gives a good chunk at 4%.

Need to toss in a Goading Belt there too for TP.


EDIT: Well, that's crap - BLU can wear Loki's kaftan but RDM can't. What the crap SE...

EDIT 2: Never mind, thought you were talking about the dagger when you do have OA2~4 sword. ROFL RDM can't use Aurore either, wow... guess SE didn't want us to literally be Pink Mages.

Well, I did the counting and it is possible to get 26% Haste without Goading Belt. Personally, I'd get the belt just cause it's costs less compared to other options. Unfortunately, for all my other gear, I don't know if I can get help to get Goading. The triggers for Lacovie are awfully annoying to get, solo. Right now, I have 25% Haste. My RDM can't use my Twilight Belt, unlike my BST, har har...

But here is the gear that gives 27% Haste...you can drop 1% from hands, feet, or belt wherever you please.

Head: Zelus Tiara
Body: Goliard Saio
Hands: Dusk Gloves +1
Waist: Goading Belt
Legs: Calmecac Trousers
Feet: Dusk Ledelsens +1

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Read the post, ffs. That's his evisceration set. Why would he throw TP gear in it?

[Malacite]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

Eh, Antares harness? Maybe for WS (Unless RDM can use Heca? Don't think it can though) but Goliard is still king for TP which is pretty sad but it's the only haste body RDM has access to and it gives a good chunk at 4%.

Need to toss in a Goading Belt there too for TP.


EDIT: Well, that's crap - BLU can wear Loki's kaftan but RDM can't. What the crap SE...

EDIT 2: Never mind, thought you were talking about the dagger when you do have OA2~4 sword. ROFL RDM can't use Aurore either, wow... guess SE didn't want us to literally be Pink Mages.

[Mhurron]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

You already know what I've said on the Official Forum, but just to reiterate it here, I really do believe SE is not being honest about what their intentions for the job are.

Actually I believe SE is quite clear in their intentions for jobs, they bow to what the playerbase has decided.

PLD gets nothing, because PLD is not wanted by the players
RDM gets only mage stat related gear, because RDM is to be a caster
NIN has been the player favorite for so long, they get basically anything they need to be able to solo anything.
The DD jobs aren't any different from one another, so they don't really get anything different. They're all interchangeable, unless you need to proc red, in which case they're all equally useless compared to a WAR.

Hell, basically SE just made it so that there are 3 jobs in the game anyway, NIN, DD and magic users. They were even so nice as to let the unwanted jobs to have some of the same gear.

[Taskmage]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

+1 to the mixed signals. It's not that people are hanging on to an old image of rdm, it's that SE keeps reinforcing that idea with updates like composure and enspell IIs that suggest rdms should try to melee while holding back on equipment and encounter design that would make melee viable in anything but the most narrow situational sense.

[Ketaru]

Re: Game Balance and User Frustration

I think the problem there is that the majority of Red Mages are confused about what class they are actually playing. And by that I of course mean 99% of RDM melee players are pants-on-head-retarded and refuse to accept the reality that the iconic image of Red Mage does not match the Red Mage as it has evolved in FFXI, nor will it ever.

You already know what I've said on the Official Forum, but just to reiterate it here, I really do believe SE is not being honest about what their intentions for the job are. And even if the evidence is right there in more substantive things like the best gear we can get, they still seem like they're somehow trying to entice people with the possibility of melee.

Other jobs now have their iconic Empyrean gear, many of which have stellar melee attributes, while our Estoqueur "Swordsman" gearset has none.

And yet, almost as if to say "Just give those meleetards something to shoot for", we are managed to fit into gear like Twilight Knife, Calmecac Trousers, Tumbler Trunks, Rager Ledelsens, or Atheling Mantle. Then there are of course the All Jobs weapon Hachimakis or Weaponskill belts. Overall, I think we did somewhat decently as far as weaponskill pieces are concerned.

Actually, as I posted in the Accomplishments thread, I recently got Twilight Knife, which has revitalized my interest in making an Evisceration set. So far, my prospective set is:

Main: Twilight Knife
Sub: Khanda +2
Ammo: Demonry Core
Head: Issen Hachkimaki
Neck: Soil Gorget
Ear1: Hollow Earring
Ear2: Brutal Earring
Body: Antares Harness
Hands: Goliard Cuffs (if you ask me, this is probably the weakest area and I'm having a tough time thinking of anything "good" to wear here)
Ring1: Iota Ring
Ring2: Rajas Ring
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Light Belt
Legs: Tumbler Trunks
Feet: Rager Ledelsens

There's a lot of old stuff in there, but some of it is also pretty new.

It's the TP building sets that haven't been modernized to meet today's FFXI standards; it still requires Goliard Saio and Dusk +1 hands/feet at the very least. I can't think of any particular TP set where we didn't have these items. We also must have Zelus Tiara. There's just no way around it apparently.

All jobs even got a JSE weapon and we got Chimeric Fleuret, which actually strikes me as a very good weapon. It actually makes me upset to see this weapon because it's clear the devs know exactly what the job needs to be a serviceable frontline unit. I think they just like stringing people along and watching those expectations get blown up. They knew that people were expecting to get spells like Gain-STR this previous update. Because that's the order the nuking elements go in: Stone (VIT), Water (MND), Wind, (AGI), Fire (STR), Ice (INT), Lightning (DEX). But in its place, we got Gain-CHR, a spell that serves us no use no matter how you try and justify it.

So yeah, I can tell people here I accept the reality of the job in practice; if I didn't care about casting, I wouldn't have bothered with finishing my Estoqueur +2 set. That doesn't mean I can't feel the team behind FFXI is doing a disservice by seemingly intentionally stringing people along like that.