Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

[Armando]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

You're giving VIT way too much weight. -11 VIT means the mob has 3 more DMG. You, on the other hand, gained 6 STR, 25 Attack, +6.5% hit rate, and 8.6% DMG/sec from the Haub and the T.M. Espadon +2. There's just no way you can argue that the Haub and TM Espadon aren't better. You can't even parse the difference that the 11 VIT loss would make, let alone try to notice it though eyeballing.

VIT just isn't an effective means of damage reduction past the mid levels.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

VIT +7 was more than enough reason for me to use it, and still is. <_<

But considering by lvl 60 I have decent enough VIT/DEF - sacrificing those 7 VIT for +1 in all other stats plus a better damage output is worth a try.



Edit > Same with Haubergeon, although at the time it was waaaaay more expensive so I never even thought about it. That's an 11 VIT loss there, but still worth a try (for the price) if I keep tanking food.

[Armando]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

It's as expensive as Gluttony. That's why there's no reason to have Gluttony, since T.M. +2 has better DPS than ANY one-handed weapon (sword or not) at that level AND comes with +12 Attack. And comes 5 levels sooner.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

That's interesting, I upgraded to Gluttony from TM Espadon I think (I say I think because I don't remember, it's been years, but I have it on my weapons mule ).

The only bad thing about Gluttony is that it's indeed too slow, but my tanking got much better after I got it. Maybe I'll try TM +2 for 60 cap fights if I can get it though (hope it isn't too expensive.)

[Armando]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

Tactician Magician's Espadon +2 and Bastard Sword +1. Although in retrospect considering the slow-ass sale rate of Bastard Sword +1, should've stuck to T.M. Espadon +2. That weapon eats every other weapon alive.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

Heheh, plus Gluttony looked awesome.

What did you use from 57 to 65 though? I went from Gluttony to Espadon, and StQ is about the same level.

[Armando]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

Raydeus: I forgive you because there was a time I would've picked Gluttony Sword blindly as well. Espadon +1 is the standard choice for a weapon anyways. I used StQ because it's insanely underrated, looks great, and the +20 Accuracy latent makes for some sick Vorpals.

Callisto: Shame on you. http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...during-ws.html Long story short, the findings were that 2-4 hit WS can DA twice, and that 5-hit WS can theoretically DA thrice. The probabilities of the grand triple DA are goddamned unreasonable, but that's still three checks being done which means increased chances of single and double DAs.

[Callisto]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

Callisto: Yeah, every now and then Jeebus lets me know he loves me. I was doing Royal Jelly a few days back and did a 4-hit Sturmwind, that Jelly didn't last long. Still, with or without a BRD, the luck needed to pull off a 6-hit Vorpal AND land everything in EXP is just insane. Fortunately I have the screenshot to prove it lol. But I'm at work.

I actually wasn't aware that you could DA twice in the same WS, lol. I've had a few really nice 600+ 5-hits so far, but so far my jewel was on Erucas @ 67, I had company over and was distracted and accidentally held TP til 300, DRG uses Wheeling and I lay down a 3-hit 800+ Savage with mirrored Light, I wish the fight would have been longer because at that point I no longer needed JAs or spells for hate.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

Man I loved my Gluttony sword

I don't remember if Save the Queen was already in the game at the time I got to that level though.

And then again I don't have a Joy and probably never will.




Edit > I think I was using Espadon +1 at that level, so I probably didn't even know about StQ. Probably would've picked Espadon over it anyway.

[Armando]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

A job's viability is always judged by the average though. But with enough data about it you might be able to change people's approach (gear/strat-wise) to the DD style.

I am average. My gear isn't spectacular. I am lazy with my gear swaps. However, I perform well. Not great, well. So average. EXP parties are composed of, for the most part, either stupid, ignorant, or misinformed people. I've been playing for 5 years and WARs spamming Shield Break STILL isn't a standard practice. People started to catch on to the DD PLD thing around the time of ToAU's release, yet people STILL run around with lolGluttony Swords.

Those numbers look more decent than I thought, what job/sub level were you and what gear were you using?

The Bibiki parties were 65-68'ish, had a BRD in some of them. Save the Queen, RK Army Shield, RG Collar/Shield Torque, Double Woodsmans or Woodsman + Jelly Ring, Assault + Fang earrings, Haubergeon, Life Belt, Amemet Mantle, the rest is AF.

Caedarva party is 71 I think. Same gear except I have Joyeuse Reprisal.

Callisto: Yeah, every now and then Jeebus lets me know he loves me. I was doing Royal Jelly a few days back and did a 4-hit Sturmwind, that Jelly didn't last long. Still, with or without a BRD, the luck needed to pull off a 6-hit Vorpal AND land everything in EXP is just insane. Fortunately I have the screenshot to prove it lol. But I'm at work.

[Callisto]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

/WAR, and it appears about 69-71~ >.>

Opened a parse in notepad, I can see where he was /checking Gobs that were coming up VT, lol.

Add:

Armando readies Vorpal Blade.1 6e
[Vorpal Blade TP return: 11%!] ce
Armando uses Vorpal Blade. 14
The Hobgoblin Venerer takes 823 points of damage.

Nice, lol.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

Well, this is getting old and redundant quick. Just try it, it won't kill you.

Maybe some day.

Again, you don't judge a job's potential based on lolPickup Parties. Most players suck. PLDs included. It should come as no surprise that you're getting DD PLDs that fail. Most of PLDs fail in the first place, some of them just happen to be DD PLDs.

A job's viability is always judged by the average though. But with enough data about it you might be able to change people's approach (gear/strat-wise) to the DD style.

I haven't parsed them side by side because the first time I changed approach, the benefits were obvious. I do have parses of DD PLD action, I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Those numbers look more decent than I thought, what job/sub level were you and what gear were you using?

Now I'm really curious about seeing a proper Turtle tank's info.

[Armando]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

Well, this is getting old and redundant quick. Just try it, it won't kill you.

Because in all my ddPLD experiences I have yet to see a PLD that can actually tank in the party without becoming a MP sponge or just losing hate and becoming just another DD (which at least one time ended up with the PLD being kicked out and replaced by a NIN because he refused to even try going turtle instead).

Of course I don't parse things, but when your mages tell you every time they have way more MP with you turtle'ing it, and DDs don't get hit just for swinging their weapon or even doing their SA+WS thing then something must be wrong with the PLD you just replaced.

Again, you don't judge a job's potential based on lolPickup Parties. Most players suck. PLDs included. It should come as no surprise that you're getting DD PLDs that fail. Most of PLDs fail in the first place, some of them just happen to be DD PLDs.

I haven't parsed them side by side because the first time I changed approach, the benefits were obvious. I do have parses of DD PLD action, I think the numbers speak for themselves.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

And that's exactly why I don't party as a PLD.

I leveled the job to tank, and if I can't do that then I rather play another job that will help the party more while being more fun for me to play, that's all.


There's one thing I'm curious about though, has anyone parsed info on the DD approach versus turtle approach with the PLD actually tanking? Not support curing while hate bounces around /NIN DDs, but the PLD actually keeping hate and tanking while wearing full DD gear.

Dmg dealt, dmg taken, HP lost, MP used to heal that HP lost, Emnity lost due to HP loss, Emnity gained due to dmg dealt, etc. the whole picture without focusing only on the dmg output.

Because in all my ddPLD experiences I have yet to see a PLD that can actually tank in the party without becoming a MP sponge or just losing hate and becoming just another DD (which at least one time ended up with the PLD being kicked out and replaced by a NIN because he refused to even try going turtle instead).

Of course I don't parse things, but when your mages tell you every time they have way more MP with you turtle'ing it, and DDs don't get hit just for swinging their weapon or even doing their SA+WS thing then something must be wrong with the PLD you just replaced.

[Armando]

Re: Rumor: Paladin Broken Vitality at 75?

The math and logic behind the approach remains the same regardless of the fight's duration. The DD setup still builds hate better and kills faster. Besides, like Callisto pointed out, EXP is technically like fighting 2-3 hours straight. It doesn't make a difference that there are small gaps between fights.

'Sides, we can't tank in merits but we can do some decent DD while supporting with Flash, Sentinel, Cover, Cures, etc. A DD that can back-up heal and temp-tank is a good thing.