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**Kyoto** · 03-09-2005, 06:37 AM

with my LS we post the events on our forum. The way we make others use it is after a few times of them not being involved they usually come on it ^^

**cloudedge** · 03-09-2005, 06:52 AM

=(
the problem is most ppl who don't come on Forums are the the ppl who don't get involve in the first place... or sometimes... new comer in the LS... I am wondering how to encourage ppl who don't get involve/just join to use the forum more =(

There is also issues with ppl posting LB/AF events... where 2-3 LS members were able to come.. but there's still not enuff ppl =\ are the leaders suppose to find others to come to help? or should the requestee do /sh in jeuno?

**Centurion** · 03-09-2005, 08:06 AM

take a look at this discussion-
http://ffxionline.com/forums/showthr...threadid=51855

this may be just the thing to help organize events for your LS

hope that helps

**TheGrandMom** · 03-09-2005, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by cloudedge
=(
the problem is most ppl who don't come on Forums are the the ppl who don't get involve in the first place... or sometimes... new comer in the LS... I am wondering how to encourage ppl who don't get involve/just join to use the forum more =(

There is also issues with ppl posting LB/AF events... where 2-3 LS members were able to come.. but there's still not enuff ppl =\ are the leaders suppose to find others to come to help? or should the requestee do /sh in jeuno?

Well having guidelines for your LS is important. If you want people to be active in the LS, try having a minimum requirement to be in it. You must attend one planned LS event every 2 weeks. Problem is your going to hear a lot of "My parents wouldn't let me play/My internet was down but I was planning on coming/I was in a car accident" etc. Its so hard because all some people want is a free ride so they will say anything to get out of participating. You have to find that niche between being tough and being understanding. LOL It's a lot like being a parent.

Getting people to participate on the forums can be tough. But like Kyoto said, if they miss out on things they want or need, they'll start checking the forums eventually. LOL

If I needed more members to complete something, I would absolutely help the person that needed it by asking my friends. But at the same time they would have to actively help also. It shouldn't just be handed to them, its much more satisfying to earn it. So yes, have them /sh and look for members also.

Good luck with your LS. It's quite an undertaking to be a leader of one. Just stick to your guidelines for everyone so people don't think your playing favorites.

**cloudedge** · 03-09-2005, 08:20 AM

yes... i have already post the link to that tool on my LS forum... it's an awesome tool really... but the problem is... we can't even motivate our member to use the forum... how are we going to get them to use a third party web tool.... ; ;~?

**Feenicks** · 03-09-2005, 01:32 PM

How new is the LS? If my LS had put up a webpage within the first week or so that we were together I don't think anyone would have visited it either. But either way our site it used mainly only for member's diaries and profiles, events do get posted but not very often.

Usually if someone wants to do something, then they'll let the leader know and he'll make an informed decision on what we should do for the next event. Then he'll try and organize a date by asking when people are free, then when it's set he'll leave a message on /lsmes.

This works, but only because all our members do not belong to any other LS (aside from a Dynamis LS, which they only switch to one night a week), so when they log in, they're guaranteed to read the event message.

**lionx** · 03-09-2005, 05:01 PM

I had this trouble myself. Just keep using your own forum, and try to get at least 1-3 people posting various things. When events come they will. If you force them to do things at a set time, most will not like the setup and leave. When people want things done, they will.

I am actually more concerned about people wanting to do HNMs and stuff like that. I have no trouble with it but i dont really feel like doing that kind of stuff for the LS or for me. So blah.

**Centurion** · 03-10-2005, 05:20 AM

communication options

you may have thought of using this method for organizing events already, this is something done on the few Linkshells i have.

use your Linkshell message to communicate upcoming events.

to modify your linkshell message- type /lsmes YOUR MESSAGE HERE

this is a nice way for people to see a quick notice when they log in.

-another thing you may want to try, is using the new Friend Group Message system added with the Last patch.

with that you can invite anyone on your friends list to join a message group. once that is done you can send one message and it will go to all the people in that group.

hope that helps

**Irinicus** · 03-10-2005, 05:44 AM

As a Co-founder of my shell, we put a shell msg stating that the forums site is up and running and for everyone to register it there. If you plan on using the forums for events and such then follow this rule: If anyone asks for help with anything like quest or AF, etc. in shell chat, kindly tell them to go to the forums and ask for help there. If they ask why, just say that thats where all events are going to be organized. Trust me I went thru this too and now almost all my shell members have registered on it. Also if they do not register or participate in events, then that person does not get any shell help. You have to be tough, but you need to learn to be tough in a nice person way.

How many members in your shell currently? Have you set up goals? Have you set up officers?

**cloudedge** · 03-10-2005, 07:00 AM

First of all thank you for all the advice.. but it let me fill up on the missing info first.

Our LS is really a remake of a broken LS... We have around 30-40 members... When I said young LS.. i mean it's not one that's been here since the beginning of the game... Our LS has been created for 3-4 months now... And most of our members are heading to the 60's, so we're doing a lot of LB/AF/Mission... We're also in the works of preparing to a end game branch of the LS.. and we're trying to move on from a chat ls to a functional one which is the reason why i am asking for advice to help better organize our ls requests...

The issue we're going thur now.. is most of the leaders very nice people... we don't want to set up bars for recuiting members.. and we would like to help all who need help. But most leaders are very discouraged now... since most of the time, whenever someone ask for help (LB/AF), very few people (and usually always the same 2-3 ppl) will actually show up to help.

Grandma, minimum requirement would be a bit too tough for some of our members... many don't log on as often as others... and some need more help than other (usually ppl in 50's are in need of help most)

In regards to ppl organizing events.. the problem is.. everyone has a list of things they want.. so leaders are always going thur an endless list =\ right now the way it works is, people will either ask in ls chat what they want and wait for members to respond or post on forums... the problem is most member (who doesn't use forum) ignores the ls chat request.. and only the most helpful/active members checks the forum regularly... so vicious cycle beging... it's always the same member showing up for LB/AF... over and over again to help =( and if one or two of the lead is not on... there won't even be enuff helpful member to form a pt =( The situation has gotten so bad.. that when I was trying to help with papyrus last week (i don't need the item of course) I need to ask a personal friend (not from our LS) to come help.. cuz we can't even get 4 ppl from the ls to come =( There was another group shouting for LB1 then too... but the member ask for LS help, so we try to help her.. I don't know if we're spoiling our members.....

Feenicks, in our LS anyways, leaders don't force anyone to join any events... it's all voluntary... Most of the events we are doing are LB/AF... so it's really specific, and only for the benefit of 1 member... we don't feel it is the leaders right to make other member help each other out.. we encourage it by helping out as much as we can... but we're having a hard time. So in you opinion, the leader should know/research about the requestee's LB/AF too?

Lionx, yes... people in our LS is really hyper about HNM and stuff.. but personally i don't think we're ready... most of us still has lots of LB/AF/ZM/Promy to do... and it's because we're trying to prepare for HNMLS that these problems are all creeping up =\

I do keep the forum posted.. there's usually 5-10 post a day (1/2 of them from me

; but as i said.. the forum is like an inner circle thing amoung the LS.. which is not what I hope for...)

Centurion, we do utilize lsmsg for fun runs and LS wide events... we don't know if it's appropriate to use it for individual member's request though.. since everyone has a long list of things they want.. we don't want to be misunderstood as favouism over certain members.. =(

The friendgroups is definately a cool idea but i have no idea how it works.. I might look into it.. but i have a feeling that if ppl don't check the forum they're unlikely to check friendsgroups too =(

Irinicus, I have tried to redirect request to the forum to encourage member to post their request... but since only a few members use the forum, most ppl still uses the LS chat to ask for extra help (from those who doesn't use forums) so it's hard to tell the member not to ask for help in ls and just post on forums..

Our ls has about 20-30.. maybe even 40 members... there are a few policy and believes most leaders held.. which is to be as helpful to our ls and others who are not in the ls as possible.
We have around 5-6 sack holders (officers)... and all of us are working very hard to help with member's request... but it seems like this is not enough to promote members to help each others ; ;~

**Feenicks** · 03-10-2005, 01:25 PM

Feenicks, in our LS anyways, leaders don't force anyone to join any events... it's all voluntary... Most of the events we are doing are LB/AF... so it's really specific, and only for the benefit of 1 member... we don't feel it is the leaders right to make other member help each other out.. we encourage it by helping out as much as we can... but we're having a hard time. So in you opinion, the leader should know/research about the requestee's LB/AF too?

A good leader knows the members of their LS well enough to know where they are and what's really important to them in the coming months. I was really chuffed when my LS leader said we were going to do my AF because I hadn't even asked for it, he just knew that I was heading towards my late 50's and it would have to be done. Same goes for Limit Breaks and such. I think our leader keeps a list of things that people will have to do in the next few months, as well as things that people just want to do, like Opo-Opo Crown or whatever.

But reading your post again, if you're implying that the leader should know how to do each AF quest and which coffer has which AF piece, then that's not really on. The person who wants it should at least inform the leader on how its done so they can take that into consideration.

I never really meant to imply that the leader should force members to participate, in the end it's up to the member whether they'll be there or not, but the members should bear in mind that if they don't turn up to help people get AF or whatever, there's less chance that people will turn up to help when you want to get something done for yourself. Why should they help you if you don't help them? Yes, organizing an event to get you AF may seem selfish, but the LS should realise that it's one more character in the LS who now has better gear and is therefore of more use to everyone. Besides, AF events are usually a good oppertunity to skillup something.

Again, a good LS isn't about forcing people to do things but a good leader is not passive. The general attitude should not be 'Come if you want to', but instead 'Come if you are available and you want to do something good for a fellow LS member'. The importance of setting dates and times can't be overemphasised either, you need to give people notice so they don't try and join a level up party or whatever just before the event starts.

Finding dedicated members can be hard when people only play with their friends, but the idea is if you can make the LS all friends with each other, then you will be successful. I can imagine this would be really difficult with a large LS of 40 people - mine only has about 10-13 members, with the most of about 8 on at any one time.

**TheGrandMom** · 03-10-2005, 01:51 PM

Cloudedge I can understand your dilemma. But the one HUGE thing I can see from your most recent post, is you need to set guidelines AND stick to them. It's like raising a child. You have to give them boundaries and consequences when they violate them. If you don't, then yes you will have a "spoiled" LS. LOL

Sometimes it hurts the parent just as much as it does the child to stick to those guidelines but it is absolutely necessary. If you don't, your sending mixed signals to people. You let some people get away with not helping out but you expect others to take up the slack. What does this inconsistant message send out to others? That you don't stick to your guns so your easily swayed. It also sends out a message of favoritism to some people. As soon as some people feel that you have "favorites", all hell will eventually break loose.

But as with anything, you must learn when there are REAL exceptions to the rules. You say some people can not be on that often. Well I'm sure that they can give you a rough estimate of when they'll be able to play. Then once every 2 weeks you can schedule something when they will be on and when they can help. And if there is something constantly "coming up" so that they can't be on when they are scheduled to help, then you need to have a talk with them. There must be consequences for not showing up. This shows the others that your sticking to being a strong leader and by re-organizing so that the person IS going to help the next time they log in, your showing that you are not playing favorites.

Another thing to add is that you have to also show everyone your appreciation to confirm they are valuable members of the LS. Simple comments on the forums in the way of thank yous directly specifically at people or pics taken at a hunt or mission with fun comments. Everyone craves attention. Confirmation that they are wanted and they are valuable. Simple human nature. When you temper your guidelines with some appreciation, it will form strong bonds between people and build a strong LS.

It's tough I know and some people just don't have what it takes to do it. Its just like parenting. Some people do it well and some people suck at it and you can certainly tell the difference rather quickly.

Ok I usually charge $150 an hour for that, so it took me 5 mins. That will be $12.50 please! LOL

**Gman** · 03-10-2005, 02:48 PM

My linkshell (well, not mine, but the one Im in) is very laid back. It's run by a level 70 JP BST, and coincidentally, there are 7-8 high level BST's in the LS, and many others are leveling it. (By high lvl I mean 60+) so there is certainly no lack of aid for lower level players. A lot of people in the LS (myself included) mostly just do our own thing most of the time, but help out LS members if we are asked directly, and arent busy. Coffer key runs, AF quests, skillup parties, etc. are fairly easy to get people for it seems.

Truthfully, linkshell chat sometimes annoys me so I ignore it. When you have 10 people chatting about random things that dont interest you, when the important things come up, you sometimes miss them. This happens a lot when I'm in a PT and the battle text is scrolling, and I'm paying attention to that. I miss most of my LS chat.

The only thing my linkshell seems to lack is any ambition for end game type stuff (as a whole, certain people are interested). The level 70 BST has been level 70 since I joined, lol. He just fishes most of the time, or crafts, helps with BCNM. Kind of like santa, watching the elves do their thing. (hes a galka, easy to make the santa comparison

)

My advice for yours would be the LS message function. When there is something that needs to be done (G2, coffer key, etc) advertise it in lsmes, so that the members see it and have no excuse not to make time for it.

**cloudedge** · 03-15-2005, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by TheGrandMom
You let some people get away with not helping out but you expect others to take up the slack. What does this inconsistant message send out to others? That you don't stick to your guns so your easily swayed. It also sends out a message of favoritism to some people. As soon as some people feel that you have "favorites", all hell will eventually break loose.

=( i don't think any of our leader is tough enough to remove member from a ls yet... i know there maybe one or two people that was removed because his acct was transfers and is causing trouble/insulting others in the ls... but anything other than that I doubt our leader would kick anyone =(

There has already been some voices from the ls members that they do not want to be "required" to help... they prefer the ls to be a chatting place... something more laid back then focusing on helping others =(

It is unfortunate but true that some people in the ls are more independent than others... and do not feel the urge to help others when they themselves never required the help... most of them would do fun stuff (bcnm/fun runs) but not any grunt work like papryus... /sigh

we're unsure how big that population is in our ls yet... we're working on a system to make the 60- more self sufficent in terms of getting help (last lb2 run we did we had an 12 ppl alliance of 65+ with 3 lvl 55... it was way too easy, it wasn't even funny... and i can't help but feel like we've ruin the experience for the 3)

We're also trying to make use of the forum's calendar function just so ppl can actually see (in a organize way) what's going on in the ls... we're testing a lot of things out... hopefully things would get better ; ;~

Originally posted by TheGrandMom

Another thing to add is that you have to also show everyone your appreciation to confirm they are valuable members of the LS. Simple comments on the forums in the way of thank yous directly specifically at people or pics taken at a hunt or mission with fun comments. Everyone craves attention. Confirmation that they are wanted and they are valuable. Simple human nature. When you temper your guidelines with some appreciation, it will form strong bonds between people and build a strong LS.

That is definately a cool idea... i'll try to do that when we do our bcnm40 tonight.. and prob. on prom. dem run sat :D thx!

Originally posted by TheGrandMom

Ok I usually charge $150 an hour for that, so it took me 5 mins. That will be $12.50 please! LOL

ouchy~~ but i'm just a poor brd who keep giving away all the good drops to ls members ; ;~ (just gave away a Ni and going to give away Erase if it drops tonight) can i have a discount ; ;~

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