LS Houserules and Organization?

[Irinicus]

Cloudedge, theres one important thing you must ask yourself and the other officers and that is this: What do we all want to turn this shell into? If the answer is a laid back chatty place then you are all set. If its to turn the shell into a powerful HNM status shell, then find the ppl that want this to be chatty and sit down with them and tell them this is our plans. If you dont like it, then either you can leave or you will be removed. Remember you officers in the end run that shell to make it a better place for your members and to ultimatly make them better, theres no place for laid back ppl. Now I dont know how many ppl are in your shell, but I am a co-founder and co-leader of our shell (soon to be HNM status) and we currently have about 60 ppl in it and waiting for the merger of another linkshell into ours that will be bringing in 10-20 more ppl. I know how frustrating it can be and is at times, but be firm and tough when needed and you'll make your shell a name for itself on your server.

[Icemage]

Most social LS that I've seen morph or break when the majority of their members approach and pass level 60. It isn't anything specific to the people, it's just that FFXI's "teamwork" requirement goes way, way up when you start AF armor quests, and only gets tougher as you get higher. The casual players gravitate away, the slackers will try to mooch, the people who work hard to help end up getting really burned out, and all around stress levels just go through the roof, which has a tendency to break most linkshells that I've seen.

I can remember when my LS was mostly doing AF armor in the mid-50s. It was a nightmare. Months of just running around doing one coffer key or AF NM after another, and then more time spent helping other people. I must have done 40-50 AF hunts in 3 months - at one point I actually started refusing to come because I was losing more XP to wipeouts than I was gaining in XP parties.


Icemage

[cloudedge]

Irinicus, the ls I'm in will be the foundation of a HNMLS... or what our leaders would like to say, End game LS... What we're hoping for our LS right now.. is to nurture the current members (currently mostly in mid-high 50's and early 60's) to be high enough to join our HNMLS branch... (which is why we're so focusing on helping the members out)

Instead of simply recuiting random 65+ or merging with unfamiliar LS to form our HNMLS... i think our leader prefer to see our current member grow into our HNMLS... personally i prefer it that way too... as I have read a from a lot of post, greed and money are big issues in HNMLS... and forming HNMLS without really knowing the members will, in the end, break the LS...

Personally... i do not believe in growing the LS too big.. and too rapidly... I'd like to be able to keep tabs on each member... For the 2 month that I've been granted as leader, i have yet to give out a pearl yet... =\ I think forming a tight bond with the LS is more important than having lots of members =(

[Irinicus]

I agree with that. I am not saying how you should recruit and all dont get me wrong there. How we recruited is mainly all of our friends in game so we know each other and how we get along and play the game. Other way we recruit is by ppl that we party with. If we like what we see, then we ask them if they want to come along. Then they ask us if they can bring their friends too, so eventually we are all a group of tight friends. Also when we merged with that other shell, we invited their leader to join us and to check us out first and then gave her a sack to give pearls to her members. Then her officers started to spring up in my shell and they too liked what they saw. In they end, they all talked with their shell and decided the merger was a go. So now we are concentrating on AF/Mission/NM/ and yes some easier HNM runs. And believe me, you think managing a shell with about 20 or so ppl is bad, try one over 60, LOL.

[lionx]

Originally posted by Icemage
Most social LS that I've seen morph or break when the majority of their members approach and pass level 60. It isn't anything specific to the people, it's just that FFXI's "teamwork" requirement goes way, way up when you start AF armor quests, and only gets tougher as you get higher. The casual players gravitate away, the slackers will try to mooch, the people who work hard to help end up getting really burned out, and all around stress levels just go through the roof, which has a tendency to break most linkshells that I've seen.

I can remember when my LS was mostly doing AF armor in the mid-50s. It was a nightmare. Months of just running around doing one coffer key or AF NM after another, and then more time spent helping other people. I must have done 40-50 AF hunts in 3 months - at one point I actually started refusing to come because I was losing more XP to wipeouts than I was gaining in XP parties.


Icemage

Just wondering, is there any way to prevent that? >_> I mean does every single social shell eventually have to go to an HNMLS or make one themselves? =/

[TheGrandMom]

I don't think that they have to eventually turn out that way, it just happens. From 1-50 everything is pretty laid back. The most is missions and asking people if they want to pt. But then you start with the AF quests and the genkai's. Things start getting stressed and this is the time that can make or break an LS.

I agree with Icemage, many LS's break around this time because of all the demands put on it. You usually have most of the people expecting things to be organized and only a few willing to help organize them. So the few, and usually the ones in charge, get burnt out fast. You know what happens when a shell holder leaves, the LS usually is toast soon after. I've seen many shell holders leave their LS's around 60+ so they can join another LS and just be a regular joe. LOL Can't say I blame them.

One of the best ways to circumvent this would be to play with a lot of real life friends. Have them all in your LS and things should go smoother....or test the strength of your friendship! LOL But how likely is something like that to happen. So you depend on strangers to fill in the spots and personalities clash. Lazy, over achievers, moochers, "hardcore" players, casual players, etc. and somewhere down the road someone is trying to hold it all together. Damn hard job.

[lionx]

Bwah i know what you mean..-_-; Some people are like lets do ENM! and some are going help me with Geennnkaii!! and others are like i need to do M2-3(damnit i still didnt have time to do it)..yet they dont post on forums....and all the while school is going DO YOUR MIDTERMS!! *falls on the ground*

I also know that i used to organize everything...and since a friend of mine told me not to do so and let them organize stuff on their own when they really want it done...i had less stress...yet some people dont post on the forums anyway and beg for things to be done...i honestly think sometimes people expect too much of the LS or of other people and are too lazy sometimes to do things themselves...nothing against them...but i am sure people who felt that kind of frustration can sometimes sympathsize...

Personally only 2 people irl played, and they both quit, one because they dont have enough time, the other because his net goes bonkers when FFXI is on. The people that started the shell are kinda laid back...so oftentimes i feel its only me holding things together and its stressful..all the while asking for a key hunt...Heres to being voted to be shell holder by 3 online friends...kampaii!! *gets drunk*

But to those that do talk to me about the LS and offer sugguestions i deeply appreciate them and it really makes closer relations to some people on the LS through tough times and you talk about it through AIM or MSN.

What i really want to ask is..does it have to end up HNMLS or something..? Are there even ANY social LSs at the high lvls..? Especially if theres only 3-5 high lvlers over 50 and the rest are lower lvl?

[Icemage]

You should see Salvation LS sometime Lionx We've gone from AF/Genkai to minor HNM to casual and then back again. Most people think the LS broke long ago, but it really hasn't. It's just like I said above, echo'd by TheGrandMom. Everyone had different priorities, and so quite a lot of people who were less interested in the friendship aspect and more interested in the "what can I get out of the LS" aspect left.

Those of us that remain (about 20 members) basically stick around and help each other do quests/missions and just chat. Every once in a while we run into someone who I think will fit in, and give them a pearl, and if they work out, they stay - for us, our policy is Nice People, regardless of level. Most of our LS (the original core members) are, and have been, level 75 for quite some time, so it's relatively trivial for us to offer a bit of assistance to new members, as long as we don't get the feeling that they're mooching, and that seems to work out OK for us.

The only reason our LS survived where most other LS shattered beyond repair was because our core members have known each other since beta, and we trust each other a lot, to the point where if someone in the LS asks for something, we know it's because they honestly need it, and can't handle it on their own. There were some really bad times in the past where we had people who just couldn't understand this policy, and simply demanded or nagged for <insert whatever goal you want here>, and that's why our current membership is as small as it is. It isn't that we wouldn't like to be a larger LS, it's simply that trying to find people who feel the same way we do, and truly understand why we feel that way, is rare.


Icemage

[Feenicks]

Icemage, I think you and I share the same type of linkshell.

A lot of it has to do with understanding that other people have the same needs as you. My previous linkshell (over a year ago) broke because everyone wanted to get their own thing done, and they weren't prepared to wait for it. I remember organizing a BCNM event and a couple of people didn't turn up because they were sore that the LS wasn't doing AF etc instead.

Having a small membership helps greatly too, people become a lot closer and you're willing to help other people in the LS with no real benefit for yourself (although really you should be helping others because of the fun involved, but hey, different strokes).

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by Feenicks
Having a small membership helps greatly too, people become a lot closer and you're willing to help other people in the LS with no real benefit for yourself (although really you should be helping others because of the fun involved, but hey, different strokes).

So very true. I was in a small LS that was very close. We talked on voice chat all the time and shared our real lives as well as our virtual ones with one another. We lvled with one another, helped one another, and had a wonderful time. My family even planned a vacation to go and visit. But sometimes even the small close shells go wrong, as did with this one. To this day I miss it terribly, as does my husband.

Before that LS, I had 24 pearls. LOL I used to catch a lot of crap from my family because I was always complaining about safe space. After being in that LS for a while, I had 1. Since I left the people from that LS, I've had 3 pearls to others. Not one offered anything like that LS did. So now I'm tired of the LS merry-go-round. I miss the fun banter and helping people that deserve it but finding an LS that isn't your typical one is very very rare.

[lionx]

Hmm what should you do when people rarely log on? It seems no one is pretty loyal to their LSs these days. I mean you would see so many people that sorta is your friend before in your LS, then you see them on other LSs instead. Only few log on the LS when they can and a few are loyal. I don tknow how other people determine that but the only way for me to do that is to see participation on the LS...like how often are you on...and are you helping out others more often with the pearl on.

Dont know, seems the easiness of getting a pearl makes people willing to switch around and never stay long enough on one LS...either that or able to mooch off one. Because of that things never get done.

People seemed close at first..then they will drift away on their own no matter how nice people are in the LS to them during the time they were on. Just blah...>_> Wondering if anyone got anything to say about that since this seems to be the LS-help thread.

[TheGrandMom]

Well when I aquired all my pearls, I always told people that I wouldn't be on regularly since I had a main LS. They didn't seem to mind and I really had a hard time saying no when they would offer me a pearl. LOL (I just have a damn hard time saying no period! Ask my kids! LOL ) So I thought mentioning I wouldn't be on often would get them to say forget it but most didn't! But I did log in many times for just 30 mins to an hour because of my schedule and then I would sit in my Mog House, put on my different pearls, and just say hi to people.

Yes I know what you mean about loyalty. I think one of the issues is that there just aren't many good LS leaders out there. While I understand the pressures of being in charge, its all up to you about how much stress you get. Keep your LS small and you'll have less stress. Decide to go big and, well, you asked for it!! LOL Have a social LS and decide to go to HNM statis...OY!!

First I think you need to define what your LS is going to be. Social? Static pt's LS? Missions and Quests LS? NM/HNM LS? Or a mixture of some? Remember the more you mix, the more stress you'll be taking on.

Once you define what your LS is, then you need to start setting up the basics. I think any good LS needs a forum for communication. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Over at Warcry in the FFXIO section, you can email the Site Manager and ask for a section in the LS forums. Of course this will be an open forum so it probably would not be best for a HNM LS. But perfectly fine for the others.

And remember, you can't make anyone do anything. If they don't want to go to the forums and communicate, you can't make them. That is their choice. But you can tell them that any requests for help need to be made there and stick to it. That is your choice. Losing a "klingon" from your LS is not a great loss, even if you counted them as a good friend. They just create problems that can create a sore spot with other LS members and the problem will only keep getting bigger and bigger. People need to communicate and help one another. But most of all, the leader must be strong and consistent. Now that doesn't mean be an A-hole but you have to know when someone is jerking your chain and say ENOUGH! LOL

So strong but empathetic leaders, good communication, and strong guidelines help make an LS good. But its also rare and I think thats why you see so many people coming and going and so many LS's folding.

[lionx]

Mine is mostly social and helping people do things when we can. Like we need AF1 done or something..and we do it. If i had to put one category, probably social with a little bit of NM camping, Mission&Quest, and stuff like that on the side.

My LS is reletively small, however theres a thing about being TOO small..then its just not worth it.

I have a forum, i made it even before retail was out because my two friends who play wanted me to make one and voted me to be leader just because they wanted to..i think me being in beta just put more umph torwards that. They however seem to be more laid back despite me trying to get them to help me with issues and sometimes dont even notice them. Casual i guess...

Problem is people barely post in it. People rather just do it on the fly like..they would go on LSChat "Lets do BCNM now!" and many times theres no organization beforehand. Sometimes we do it, sometimes we dont because our BRD isnt there. The problem with this is that, while you may stick with your forum plans, the BCNM might still be able to be pulled off without the forum, and they will keep doing it that way. Its not that they dont use the forum at all..but not enough as i like them to and sometimes things get messy. So what can i do about that? I honestly dont know.

Some people during tougher times of the LS will back off from the LS, and then during when its not so tough (reasons being a bad member or whatever) will come back. I learned just from that, that its not relaible of them and i cannot trust them should things come to it. However that seems to be the norm and not the exception. Not to mention people ranting on LS..-.-; I guess i need to be a bit tougher, but then by doing that, you risk looking like a tyrant. So i aint sure what to do with it. I really wish theres more people to talk to about these things and not be written off as you are worrying too much.

And while i think its rare...potential shells that will suceed at any given category listed sometimes are not given the chance to succeed at all...either by people just leaving like that and just not being interested in the LS itself. I feel its a shame..=/

EDIT: Whats a klingon?

I also listen to problems and try sugguestions, however they dont post them or they dont tell me. One of the things i HATE the most is people hiding things from me, then hearing it from a close friend saying that they are doing so. WTF? I am always willing to listen, but they either dont put reasonable solutions, or dont report them at all. People in this game are just...sometimes unbearable -_-

I dont know but sometimes i feel people expect so much out of me or the LS...that its just crazy.

[Jei]

cloudedge - your LS is entering it's toughest time I can see, same thing happenned to my Lunarians before. At this point you should set a clear purpose of the LS...

If you *expect* people to kindly help each other out whenever requested, that will only happen in a friendly LS where everyone are close to each other.

For an LS aiming for the high-end game, people will be looking forward to the end-game stuff and won't be interested in helping AF/lvl cap quests.

If, ultimately, high-end LS is your goal then you'll have to be mean. A hard cap and clear cut rules will need to be made, and bad members removal is unavoidable. Try look around other HNM LS recruiting pages. Some only accepts 75, some only accepts thos with access to the moon, etc. The last thing you want is having people joining and then have to run everyone of them through missions/quests. That's what we call free-ride and is not what other members want to do.

just some story. I had members who, after we planned our first events for weeks, said his brother got caught in a car accident and there for had to leave in the middle of our AF3 tour. 15 minutes later he logs back in and find PT in Jeuno. Saying "I'm sorry but I can't concentrate with AF3 while on phone with the doctor about my bro" but he kept PTing for the rest of the night....

Did I mind? No I didn't care at all... but other MEMBERS were extremely unhappy and request such guy to be removed. I was too nice to do so and result in a week long drama concerning such topics.




You have to be mean and *tough*. Removing the bad members, or you'll have to remove yourself from the game like I once had to.

[Pounce]

A Klingon is an alien from Star Trek. Also the only fictitious language you can learn (and supposedly earn a college degree in o.O).

Anyways, back on topic.

Try to get people with similar playstyles, and playtimes. You don't necessarily have to level together, but if you have lots of people in a fairly close level range, you'll find it a lot easier to do activities together.

Ideally, each level range should have a decent number of people. If someone is left behind, and stands no chance of catching up, he/she is not going to have fun with the LS. Likewise, if someone outlevels everybody so quickly that the rest of the LS has no chance of catching up, he/she is not going to have fun. The latter scenario seems to be the #1 reason why many "social" LS suffer mass defections of their high level members to HNMLS.