LS Houserules and Organization?

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by Pounce
A Klingon is an alien from Star Trek. Also the only fictitious language you can learn (and supposedly earn a college degree in o.O).

I used the word "klingon" as a play on words. So to say, a person that is dead weight. I purposefully did not capitalize the word to imply that, but I guess the meaning was lost.

Sorry Lion, it sounds like you have quite a little mess on your hands. The problem is that you didn't start the LS with the knowledge you have now. If you had, then you would probably have a more stable LS. Can you have 2 people become your "lieutenants" possibly? Do you think you could make some guidelines and start enforcing them? Or do you think maybe it would be better to just buy a new shell and start over? It really depends on how you feel. If your a little aggravated with the LS but can stand it, then you might just leave it as it is. If its really stressing you out, you can either start laying the smack down or make a new LS. Sometimes the right road is the hard road but I know it will be a lot of work. In the end, all that should matter is how YOU are enjoying the game. If this is effecting your enjoyment of it, then something needs to be done. Your paying that $12.95 a month, not your friends or LS members.

[cloudedge]

lionx, my LS seem to have very few loyalty problem.. there are a few ppl who would only log on when they need specific job for promy run... but other than that most members do treat the LS as their main LS. Mainly because most of our member were member of the older LS that have been here since NA release. How long have u started the LS? Do you have regular events going on the shell?

Our LS do face the problem of on the fly events though... mostly with BCNM and LB/Coffer... but more and more ppl are posting on the forum now... after a respectable leader speaking out about our concerns... most people do not mind having a more organized ls (though we did get complain about not wanting any obligation to the ls from a member) One thing to do is as prev. post suggest, put ur forum address on lsmsg, and put a reminder that there's post you would like member to read. Not all, but some will show up.

Put up a Screen Shot and Events sections... and set up some poll for ppl to get involve. Encourage the leader to post interesting stuff on the forum... whenever I have time at work and see some interesting post, i would usually post a link on our LS forum to encourage discussion...like for BCNM and ENM you can post links for strategies and things like that.

We also have a "Craft Request/Mat. Request" section that encourage ppl to give/exchange items... this section isn't use as much but it always give u a fuzzy warm feeling when u recieve some craft mat. from a LS member :D Recently some members in our LS chipped in to buy a Sleepga II for one of our leader as a suprise :D (She's been having some tough time in RL) and it makes the LS feels a lot tighter when things like this happens :D

So strong but empathetic leaders, good communication, and strong guidelines help make an LS good. But its also rare and I think thats why you see so many people coming and going and so many LS's folding

Grandma, I agree, but it's hard to find one person that holds all traits ^^ it seems our ls leaders have adopted different roles... some are "strict" and handles "warning/punishment" and some are more "sympathic/giving"... some are more "active/leader-like" and some are more "laid back/just act like reg. members" we're really not sure if this is good or bad.. but for now.. it seems to be ok....

Jei, I am not sure if we're really going to be a HNMLS yet... we're not high enough.. there's about 2 people in the LS that's in the 70's... some of us are in the 60's and 1/2 of us are in the 50's... we're still trying to get the 50's up to pace with us... and I am hoping that for now we stop recuiting until we're done helping everyone with LB/AF... otherwise the request will be endless for us leads ; ;!

So really, we're sorta stuck in between HNM and Casual LS... not quite either... and we're quite a closely tied LS.. most of us know each other for over 6months, some for over a year... so I won't say we can totally depend on each other, but if help is needed.. a few of us will be available to help that person (at least the leads be there)

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by cloudedge
Grandma, I agree, but it's hard to find one person that holds all traits ^^ it seems our ls leaders have adopted different roles... some are "strict" and handles "warning/punishment" and some are more "sympathic/giving"... some are more "active/leader-like" and some are more "laid back/just act like reg. members" we're really not sure if this is good or bad.. but for now.. it seems to be ok....

I should have said Cooperation also, because it seems that is what your LS has. It's so nice to hear that people can work together in different positions so that you can have a stable LS. You are one of the lucky ones. Congrats! ^^

[lionx]

My LS started around Christmas when i got the game. At first all it had was me, because i AM the leader. We usually have regular events every now and then..the most recent ones being the customary Fishing ones where we cluster around the boat and fish...and kill pirates. Go Sand Charms

I sometimes speak out my troubles..and most write it off as "You are worrying too much"..-_-; So in the end theres very few that help me out with problems.

LS Message ALWAYS has the forum link. Then when i ask some people about the forum, they respond "You mean that thing on the LS when i log on?" or.."THERES A FORUM?!" or.."I havent gotten around to it yet" -_- Yet its always there...

I have:

General
LS Event/Help
Craft
Tatics/Job discussion
Screenshot
Feedback(like it ever gets posted -_-)

Anime
Writing/RP/etc stuff
Entertainment/vidgames
Technical Help

Yet as you can see only a handful of people post.

I encourage people to help one another out, yet theres a few people that will charge members like when someone makes an excess of 20 Acid Bolts, the person will SELL it to LS members instead of giving those he cannot sell away...

So in other words, i cannot trust alot of people to be there should bad things come to it. People are fickle and only seem to think about themselves....but thats not to say there are bad members, far from it..but there are a few like that and in a smaller LS..it seems to stick out more often.

Lets just say..i have alot on my hands and i really like some help..

[cloudedge]

Originally posted by lionx

I sometimes speak out my troubles..and most write it off as "You are worrying too much"..-_-; So in the end theres very few that help me out with problems.

May I ask how you have voice your concern? Is it just a one liner? or just on the LS chat? When me and another leader voice out our concern... it was on the forum... and we wrote in details what concerns us. We wrote out our feelings and hopes for the LS. The leader that first wrote the thread was very respectable too. He had almost helped out everyone in the LS at least once. But then again... our LS had faced one break already (our older LS) so most of us understands what losing an LS means... it's not a nice feeling....

Originally posted by lionx

LS Message ALWAYS has the forum link. Then when i ask some people about the forum, they respond "You mean that thing on the LS when i log on?" or.."THERES A FORUM?!" or.."I havent gotten around to it yet" -_- Yet its always there...

well... at least now some of them know... i think you should talk about the LS more... some of our members are posting RL pics and RL pets pics on the forum now... that definately got more ppl to look and post. Another way to get ppl to go to forum is have them fill out a roaster list... that way, they feel like they have someone to post... i mean some ppl prob. went to the forum.. and find nothing to post...

Originally posted by lionx
I encourage people to help one another out, yet theres a few people that will charge members like when someone makes an excess of 20 Acid Bolts, the person will SELL it to LS members instead of giving those he cannot sell away...

So in other words, i cannot trust alot of people to be there should bad things come to it. People are fickle and only seem to think about themselves....but thats not to say there are bad members, far from it..but there are a few like that and in a smaller LS..it seems to stick out more often.

Lets just say..i have alot on my hands and i really like some help..

Well, Linox, there are always going to be ppl that are more generous, and some that are more stingy... don't mind them. All I can say is be generous yourself, and set up an example for others. Also start some post in the Craft section about Mat. Exchange... a lot of craft complements each other than u can encourage trade/selling/buying in between LS that helps each member out... (like arrowhead to arrows to rng) Or you can start up a birthday gift calendar thing... where ppl chip in or (have a ls farming event to pool money) to buy gift for the member's bday...

This way u can also encourage member to visit the forums to post their birthday too :D

[Zempten]

lionx

I feel practically exactly the way you feel. Our LS has been around since Christmas of last year, it took a while to get that 8k ^^. Ever since then sooo much has happened. We had some core members, but most of them except 1 left for WoW and EQ2. Later we kept on getting new members, but then they either left the LS for higher-end stuff or just had soooo many LS that they tossed ours out. From that point, I emphasised a 1 LS rule, but I realized that it didn't matter. If they are loyal members, they would stay in the LS on their own will rather then following a rule. So I removed the 1 LS rule. Later we even had 2 dying LS merge with us, but the majority of them left and a few decided to stay. Recently we just got a new batch of people, about 7 to 10 new people, but I'm not sure where their loyalties lie.

I mean....I realize people have the urge to get the best gear and what not. It's human nature to strive to please, wether it is to please others or themselves. So I don't blame them. However, that is not the path I want my LS to head. I do not want the true members of our LS to be powerhungry/greedy people who will disregard others for themselves.

Currently, I do not ask everyone in the LS to come help with AF or anything that I cannot tackle alone. Mostly because I understand that they probably want to do other things and most AFs I can tackle on my own. What is the saying? "Time is money"? However, I still tell the LS "Does anyone want to help <name> with his AF". If we get some tells they all come and we do the AF stuff. It's mostly just time for us to bond together, rather then seriously wanting to get the AF that badly. Sometimes, no one comes and it's a good bonding between the leader and one member. Good company makes it less horrible ^^

However, there are certain things I am strict on. If I say EVERYONE in the LS needs to come, then they need to come. Some things just require full LS attendance. So I guess you can say everything I do/organize has a priority level. Low priority means that not everyone must attend. High priority means everyone must attend.

I also like to tell people in advance what is coming up. I do my best to give them a weeks notice.

However, the biggest problem in my LS right now is not greed, power, ...etc, but help. There is not enough help in the LS. As in, not enough people that will organize stuff for the LS. I am the only one that has organized anything in the LS and believe me....it REALLY takes it toll on you. Sometimes I have wanted to quit the game. Sometimes even gotten pissed, high-tempered...etc, but you know what really puts that fire out? When they are spamming "Thank You" and the like. It's really a good feeling that you've helped someone and they appreciate it that much. It's great in fact.

Lately though I am running into a new problem. With the new amounts of members we aren't able to do the small stuff only now. We use to tackle BCNMs, Missions, AF..etc with just 6 people. Now with the new influx of people I have to find events that everyone can attend to, which will be extremely tough. The only thing I am seeing right now is perhaps Garrison and I'm reasearching about them currently. I wonder if there are higher levels ones besides level 20.

Another thing that has been on my mind is nationality. Sometimes I want to do the conquest things with my LS, but then realize its divided into San d'Oria and Bastok. I've been thinking about constantly changing nationalites to do stuff with each nation of our LS, but I realized I would constantly have to drain my CP and the 30k (I think) to change would kill me.

I'm really glad they added ENMs into the game. It would be something else we could tackle.

All in all, the LS comes with the good and the bad. Good people, good times. Just finding the right people is soooo hard.

Oh and I don't know about you guys but the /lsmes needs to be longer sometimes I think ^^ I usually just tell them "Events have been posted on the fourms, please refer to them", but still.....sometimes I want to say something else ^^

[cloudedge]

Zempten,

how did ur older ls members deal with all the big influx of members? to be honest... I am one of the more active leader in which I would almost put down everything (except my perma) to help someone with LB/AF and even plvling occassionally... but I find it very very difficult to cope with new recuit... I can't help but wonder if they're worth my work to help. I fear upseting the currently LS dynamics...

Every time we invite a new member (and it's not up to me who is going to join i'm only a sack holder, the shell holder and older sack holder has the ultimate say) I always fear how they will fit in in the LS... will they cause drama... and what if they don't blend well with another member

our LS is a fair comfortable size of about 20-30 member.. maybe 40 if everyone is on... do u still see a point of recuiting?

[Zempten]

Cloudedge,

There is this saying that the mask that people wear is only removable by time. There is also a saying that "Innocent until proven guilty" or something like that. So in my mind, everyone deserves that help until they have been proven unworthy of it. Just rest content in your mind that you did your part.

Usually when there are new members, I try to immeidately do something with them (static, missions, quest...etc) and bring in old members along. Something that comes in mind is when a LS merged with us I immideatly tried to form a static with them. (I'm not going to hide names since you won't know who most of them are anyways ^^). So I had Wemic, Nerissa, and Asher (new members) static with myself and Scuzzi (old members). The thing about static PTs is that you know bad things will happen, really bad things such as wipeouts...etc. This is when you see the person's real color (their temper, their playing skill, their personality...etc) ^^ It may not show the first time around, but after a while you can slowly see wether they are wearing a mask or not. Of course, this is just one example ^^

Every time we invite a new member (and it's not up to me who is going to join i'm only a sack holder, the shell holder and older sack holder has the ultimate say) I always fear how they will fit in in the LS... will they cause drama... and what if they don't blend well with another member

Oh, I can definitely understand how you feel. It is a feeling of fear kind of, no? It's like your LS is stable and is where you want it to be, but you are afraid that one minor mistake/error will shatter the peace, right? Yes, I know what you feel and I feel it everytime a new member joins. However, here is a question for you. Your LS has been thru trials and trials and is tempered by obstacles to become what it is now, do you think it will that easily break? If so they the LS has not been as strong as you think. However, if this is not the case then just 1 member will not hurt/break your LS. He will be kicked in the end if he is not fit for the LS.

Personally I am about to change our recruitment rules. Linkpearls are given on a "If you register at the site, you get the pearl" kind of thing (this helps to make sure everyone is registered). However, they are put on trial for 3 week period in which they will attend every event so that each and ever member has a chance to meet him/her. In our fourms, is a voting section in which members put their thoughts and opinions about the new member. If the majority is fine with the person he is accepted and the topic is delted.

our LS is a fair comfortable size of about 20-30 member.. maybe 40 if everyone is on... do u still see a point of recuiting?

I'm not sure if what I says rings true or not. Perhaps it is the background of MMORPGs that I came from, but I never was fond of a HUGE LS. I never saw a point in it. For one thing, I find large LS harder to manage and harder to keep track of each member This is important to me because I want everyone to know that I care about their progress in the game (I try to start my day off by talking to each and ever member, have a little chat about anything).

Another problem I find is unity. As a LS grows larger and large people lose contact with one another and the LS grows weaker and weaker. This is my theory on why huge LS eventually breaks into a newer one. They get to the point where the LS is divided into groups of people, who eventually share a same view and break off into their own.

I also believe in player skill. I do not believe that you will need XXX amount of people to complete something. Look at the KillingIfrit site. It gives you some number that you need XXX amount of people at XXX level. I've practically, along with my LS, have proven them wrong countlessly. Player skill is important and it is important that they know they need to be playing at their best our all will fail. Here, let me try to give you a corrolation or analogue (sorry my English sucks ;

Let's say that the government has assigned 20 people to kill a villan that threatens to destroy world peace. 20 people. They know in their minds the reason the government assigned so many people because if one of them fails, another will pick up where he left off. So in their minds is the thought "I am expendable". Now, let's say the goverment assigned only 5 people. They know that there is less room for error. Each must put forth their very best for the mission to become a success. In their minds they understand that they are valuable because if they failed there is not so many people that are able to pick up after them.

Sure, you can say 20 people trying to assassinate someone would definitely put in their all because if either one failts they lose their life, but I believe it is a mind thing (sub-concious). With few people there is increasingly less room for error. They understand they are valuable to the LS and hence they will strive to do their best to please the LS with their skills.

Perhaps a better way of saying things is....if you had a project to do. You have 3 group members. One member knows he can goof off while the other 2 do his share of work. If you have 2 group members, work is more uptight and everyone must do his/her own share of work

(I think the last analogue is better ^^)

So in conclusion, I don't beleive you need to recruit anymore.

I like the saying "Think outside the box" ^^

[cloudedge]

Originally posted by Zempten

Oh, I can definitely understand how you feel. It is a feeling of fear kind of, no? It's like your LS is stable and is where you want it to be, but you are afraid that one minor mistake/error will shatter the peace, right? Yes, I know what you feel and I feel it everytime a new member joins. However, here is a question for you. Your LS has been thru trials and trials and is tempered by obstacles to become what it is now, do you think it will that easily break? If so they the LS has not been as strong as you think. However, if this is not the case then just 1 member will not hurt/break your LS. He will be kicked in the end if he is not fit for the LS.

I guess u're right... I guess I might be a little too protective of the LS as i said our shell has broken once bc the leader went to WoW.. I don't want to see that happen again ; ;

Originally posted by Zempten

Personally I am about to change our recruitment rules. Linkpearls are given on a "If you register at the site, you get the pearl" kind of thing (this helps to make sure everyone is registered). However, they are put on trial for 3 week period in which they will attend every event so that each and ever member has a chance to meet him/her. In our fourms, is a voting section in which members put their thoughts and opinions about the new member. If the majority is fine with the person he is accepted and the topic is delted.

I think one of our leader's beliefs is that we are not going to set up recuitment requirements... Our LS don't really want to turn into another one of those uber HNMLS... we want to be open to casual players... and not just specific job/lvl... so i think once u're given a pearl.. u're in ... for good

Originally posted by Zempten


I'm not sure if what I says rings true or not. Perhaps it is the background of MMORPGs that I came from, but I never was fond of a HUGE LS. I never saw a point in it. For one thing, I find large LS harder to manage and harder to keep track of each member This is important to me because I want everyone to know that I care about their progress in the game (I try to start my day off by talking to each and ever member, have a little chat about anything).

Another problem I find is unity. As a LS grows larger and large people lose contact with one another and the LS grows weaker and weaker. This is my theory on why huge LS eventually breaks into a newer one. They get to the point where the LS is divided into groups of people, who eventually share a same view and break off into their own.

Yes.. this is definately what i fear most. Most of the leaders are not actively seeking members.. but a lot of members are requesting that their friends be given a pearl too... and it's not that I don't trust them.. it's just that I'm afraid that the LS is going to get too big and ends up break into smaller groups and eventually breaks off...

[Blood Red Poet]

As people pass level 65.. expect some to ditch your LS behind because they orgasmn over the phrase "HNM". I call those people, HNM Sell-Outs, and have a list of at least 20 that has left only one of my LS(most of them went to PHOENIXDOWN or GilToss, ah how graceful). Its disgusting really.

After all the hardwork, the one LS I mentioned above is finally doing high level stuff like Sky. We've been backstabbed a million times though, so I expect a bunch more will do the same to other LSes.

[Zempten]

I guess u're right... I guess I might be a little too protective of the LS as i said our shell has broken once bc the leader went to WoW.. I don't want to see that happen again ; ;

Well someone hear made a analogue about a parent and a child. Sometimes the parent (leaders/pearlsack holders) cannot always be there to protect thier child (LS). If bad things happen the worse that can happen is going back to stage one. Then you'll really know who wants to be in the LS and those who don't have the patience for it.

I think one of our leader's beliefs is that we are not going to set up recuitment requirements... Our LS don't really want to turn into another one of those uber HNMLS... we want to be open to casual players... and not just specific job/lvl... so i think once u're given a pearl.. u're in ... for good

Correct, I never invite people just because of their job/levels. I want them to grow up with us, not just all of a sudden become attached to us. I think a good way of looking at it is growing flowers. If you grow a flower from it's seed and up to when it blooms, you really treausre that flower because of all the time and effort you invested into it and the flower thanks you back with the beautiful bloom. I believe it's the same with people.

As people pass level 65.. expect some to ditch your LS behind because they orgasmn over the phrase "HNM". I call those people, HNM Sell-Outs, and have a list of at least 20 that has left only one of my LS(most of them went to PHOENIXDOWN or GilToss, ah how graceful). Its disgusting really.

So true. Where has loyalty and pride gone to

[cloudedge]

As people pass level 65.. expect some to ditch your LS behind because they orgasmn over the phrase "HNM". I call those people, HNM Sell-Outs, and have a list of at least 20 that has left only one of my LS(most of them went to PHOENIXDOWN or GilToss, ah how graceful). Its disgusting really.

This isn't always true though... i know for my ls.. only 1 person left for somewhere else because he got too sick of the leaders duty... in fact before he left.. it was really the 65+ leaders that were holding the LS together... The ones who spend most time and if not all their time in the LS... trying to help out the ppl in the 50's...

Well someone hear made a analogue about a parent and a child. Sometimes the parent (leaders/pearlsack holders) cannot always be there to protect thier child (LS). If bad things happen the worse that can happen is going back to stage one. Then you'll really know who wants to be in the LS and those who don't have the patience for it.

Correct, I never invite people just because of their job/levels. I want them to grow up with us, not just all of a sudden become attached to us. I think a good way of looking at it is growing flowers. If you grow a flower from it's seed and up to when it blooms, you really treausre that flower because of all the time and effort you invested into it and the flower thanks you back with the beautiful bloom. I believe it's the same with people.

Yes, i do see leading a ls very similar to gardening too... it takes a lot of time and care to cultivate all the relationship and player... to help them grow with the ls... i truly believe that this way is better than absorbing "suitable recuit" to increase the LS's asset. But then again... this might be why I get all protective of the LS... I mean i could prob. find a HNMLS if i really wanted to (as gimped as i am, i'm still a brd ;P ) But what is the point of having victories when u are not sharing with ur true commarads... This LS is the people I want to share my end game experience with...

But to be really honest with you.. i'm not sure if I have enuff faith and stamina to start at stage one all over again... if this LS fails.. i might not lead in another one anymore.. it's really a huge task.

[TheGrandMom]

So true. If you don't make everyone feel welcome in an LS, there are bound to be hard feelings. Everyone greeting them, answering questions, and planning some events they can participate in are excellent ways to make one feel like "part of the family".

I had a bad experience with one LS I was in recently, I tried to chat in the LS and give advice when I could. There were several 75'ers in it and the responses I got from them were horrible. I said "Hi hi everyone! Nice to meet you!" I got "OMFG not another n00b!? (I was lvl 62ish) Oh wait don't tell me, its a chick isn't it? Probably mithra." When I tried to help out someone with a question I got "n00b don't pretend you know stuff! LOL" and other comments.

Believe it or not, I stuck with it for a few weeks. But the end came when I asked for help with my last piece of AF. I still didn't have it and had not asked the new LS for help. I feel going into a new LS and asking right away makes you look like a mooch. Well one member said we would do it Sat. So I waited until Sat. When I got on I mentioned doing my AF and that person and all the other high lvls said no. So I started shouting in Jeuno for help. After a few hours, I groaned about trying to get AF help in the LS chat. I didn't do it to get them to help since they already said no, I was just frustrated. I got a /t from a 75'er telling me to "shut your n00b s**t up! No one is going to help you get your AF. n00bs like you are not even wanted in this LS and there is no way in hell your going to be included in any HNM hunts." I said goodbye to the LS and never went back.

[lionx]

Ahh if you only knew :x alot of what you sugguested i tried already...

However me and the two people that started the shell(who after i pointed to this thread..i hope can help) are discussing how to deal with this problem...i hope it works out. I am going to be a bit more tough on this...i aint helping out this guy that wants to mooch...$#@% no...

Zempten, i agree..setting up stuff for everyone is going to make your head weigh a dozen tons...thats why my friend said let THEM do it if they want it so bad....and i have to agree during that tough time, it was the best solution for my stress problems.

Cloud, i hope your LS can eventually do high level things...try to encourage high lvls to help the lower ones, i am sure things will work out >< No one likes to see a broken LS...i might even say get it to their heads that it might happen..but it might not be wise :x

GrandMom: That LS sucks XDD;;

I dont know what else to add really but lets just say i really appreciate everyone's input and wisdom. Its something i wish is the norm of VanaDiel, because you people help make the game more enjoyable. Thanks

[TheGrandMom]

Originally posted by lionx
I am going to be a bit more tough on this...i aint helping out this guy that wants to mooch...$#@% no...

YAY! Good for you Lionx! I always tell my kids "OK thats enough! It's time to put my foot down.....and it might end up on your rear end!" LOL