Fishing bots: PWNED

[PetriW]

Windurst is notorious for it's periodic worthless moat carp fishing. I recommend Zeruhn mines (and a full set of fishermans gear).

And fishing in the wrong place at the wrong time is bad, part of how fishing works. Just like you can't farm wind elementals when it's not windy.

[Xccoortri]

People are SO fast to say "Square you suck, make fishing more fun!" But no one has stepped up to the plate and said HOW they can make it fun. Hell, fishing in REAL life is casting a line, waiting patiently and pulling on it when you get a bite...they have emulated it perfectly. If you want them to make a huge mini game with tons of interactive features, then you are looking int he wrong place, go to the arcade and play master bass catcher or something.

[Paiku]

Originally posted by Xccoortri
People are SO fast to say "Square you suck, make fishing more fun!" But no one has stepped up to the plate and said HOW they can make it fun.

Try reading the entire thread, not just the parts you want to read. Namely, MY post in this thread.

Hell, fishing in REAL life is casting a line, waiting patiently and pulling on it when you get a bite...they have emulated it perfectly.

No, they don't. I think there's more to pulling in a fish than tapping a button.

If you want them to make a huge mini game with tons of interactive features, then you are looking int he wrong place, go to the arcade and play master bass catcher or something.

Look at what you're defending. You're defending a fishing system involving typing "/fish", staring at the screen, and then hitting the Enter key at the right time. That's insane.

Ever play Dark Cloud 2? Great, FUN fishing system in that game, and there was absolutely NOTHING complex about it. Precisely something this game needs, and all the more reason why I'm ditching this game faster than lightning when True Fantasy Live Online releases, which will have crafting systems that have player interaction beyond tapping the Enter key. People played those old simplistic games back in the early 80s that tend to make a comeback in some form in newer games as a "mini-game", and that's all that's necessary to minimize boredom in the current MMORPG crafting systems.

Defend your current favorite MMORPG all you want, but when push comes to shove, it's needing improvement. There are greener pastures on the horizon, so Square would do well to work on improving things, because are people going to stay content with hitting the Enter key forever? I know I'll be moving on if things don't change. It isn't just fishing that needs improvement... there's a serious lack of monster variety, lack of armor variety, and the list goes on. And look, World of Warcraft is just around the corner.

Cue the "FINE, JUST QUIT THEN, LESS LAG FOR ME" line.

[Macht]

Dark Cloud and Dark Cloud 2's fishing system to me is a joke. You can basically cast out and wait just like on the FF game and get similar result, moving around and reeling in the line hardly has much of an actual effect (More there just to entertain you like a kid with his rattler).

And Actually fishing is exactly like that if you ever go fishing at a pier that is basically what you do. Cast out the line, sit the rod somewere secure, and go back to check it once in a while to make sure the line doesn't tangle (Of course you do keep an eye on it to see if there is a catch, other then that it's all you are doing). Basic fishing isn't throwing out the line move the rod left and right till something bites. Hell when I go fishing the basic things I bring with me IRL besides the fishing gear and all is a good book or a friend to talk to.

The Bass fishing games and Dark Cloud over-glorify what fishing is like, add on top those fishing shows were it's involves more scientific methods into it as opposed to the good old fashioned way.

[Nodoka]

How good is fishing for moats in Zeruhn? Is that the best place? Right now Im going crazy for moaties and goldies, so I've just been sticking to Windurst. I dont fish in sandy cause I dont like getting tricolors. I would go to Zeruhn but you said you get tricolors. >.< I hate those buggers.

Ermm anyway.. that pruge or whatever worked well.. but now that it's a few days later some of em are coming back. Although I saw some vanish again today. XD;; its a mess over here.

[Xccoortri]

Paiku, there is a lot more to fishing in real life then tapping a button, and there is also a lot more carving, weaving, goldsmithing etc. This is a game that focuses on the fighting and story aspects and not on crafting. If you want a super realistic crafting game this isn't it. In order to satisfy what you are saying you want they woudl need to create a mini-game type thing for ever single cvraft, and it would have to be way too elaborate...I think the crafts are all equally monotonous and boring, and that is just how it works in these types of games.\


P.S- I found your "cue the fine quit now etc" line to be slightly...offensive...it's like you take me for some ignorant jackass who simply put down what you have been saying. I did not just simply put down your thoughts, I asked someone to A) explain how they feel it could be done better and B) to just realize that these games don't usually involve highly interactive ANYTHING...

I mean, yes true fantasy live online might have some interactive rafting, but I'm sure it will be lacking depth in certain areas that FFXI does not.

[Xephoid]

I think people are forgetting

That this is a game, not real life. And as a game, it's suppose to be fun.

(1) typing /fish... stare for 20 seconds, hit enter does NOT equal to fun.

(2) Having to zone 3 times every 45 mintues doesn not equal to fun.

(3) have you fishing skill go up 0.1 every 10 hours does not equal to fun.

(4) pay $13 dollars a month to play a game that's not fun is not fun.

If people want something that's like real life, people wouldn't be playing Final *fantasy*. People, I hope, play this game to have fun. And as fishing stands right now, it's no fun. I can't image how someone would think it's fun.

[Paiku]

Thanks for the elaborate explanation of what fishing is like in reality Macht, but welcome to the Final Fantasy XI forums, where we are discussing a video game. Final Fantasy XI over glorifies medieval combat and somehow being able to stand after being stabbed repeatedly with swords and being bitten by monsters with jaws larger than our heads, yet you seem to not take issue with this.

Come see me when you have a better argument.

Games only improve when complaints are made. And of course, the nature of the complaints are important. I'm not asking to be able to get 10000000 gil in three days. I'm not asking to be able to get level 75 in five hours. I'm just asking for more interaction with these non-combat skills.

[Rigsta]

For some reason we have a discussion of why fishing isn't fun....

There is a simple solution: If you don't like fishing.... don't fish.

Ya see, I think fishing is boring as hell too, that's why I stopped at skill 11. Now I'm an alchemist, apparantly about 13 levels away from actually being able to start making some gil out of it. It's been a fun money sink so far.

I don't know about you guys, but if it isn't fun then I'm not going to bitch and whine about how it could be sooo much better, I just won't bother doing it. Plenty of other things to do in the game.

I do like the idea of a bit more interaction though. Exactly how it would/should be implemented is a bit too off-topic to go into though. Perhaps a subject for another thread.


Oh and I think I saw someone mention very short fishing times - if you press enter (and possibly other keys) after casting your line, it cancels your fishing attempt without loss of bait and you get the message "You didn't catch anything."

[Gman]

Wow, what a difference a day makes.

Logged in yesterday to play and I saw it was a Full Moon 80%, so having heard that it's best to fish on a full or new moon, I figured what the hell... I'll give it a shot.

Went and bought a Bamboo rod, and a stack of insect paste, and found a spot ober by the fountain in Windurst Woods. Bite after bite after bite... wow. I think I can count on 2 hands the number of times I *didnt* get a bite, which was totally opposite of the day before. I finished off my stack of Moat carps fairly quickly, and got another stack (although it took 5 stacks of insect paste to get 13 carps- I kept liosing my catch)

On top of that, my skill actually rose to level 2, then up to level 3 during these few hours. Moral of the story? Screw fishing on any days other than full or new moon, just not worth it. (at least for a beginner)

[PetriW]

Originally posted by Nodoka
How good is fishing for moats in Zeruhn? Is that the best place? Right now Im going crazy for moaties and goldies, so I've just been sticking to Windurst. I dont fish in sandy cause I dont like getting tricolors. I would go to Zeruhn but you said you get tricolors. >.< I hate those buggers.

Ermm anyway.. that pruge or whatever worked well.. but now that it's a few days later some of em are coming back. Although I saw some vanish again today. XD;; its a mess over here.

You catch a lot of tricolored in zeruhn but then you don't get many "You didn't catch anything" unlike windurst.
Plus, 2 moat carp = 1 gold carp in gil, so gold carps ain't worth all that much. (And I caught far more than 2 moat carps for every gold carp I didn't catch in Zeruhn.)

[Xephoid]

Originally posted by Rigsta
For some reason we have a discussion of why fishing isn't fun....

There is a simple solution: If you don't like fishing.... don't fish.

I think people are responding to your post because you are trying to tell other people their thinking is wrong.

I don't fish except when waiting for the airship, why? because it's no fun. Not fishing is one solution. But botters have got another solution (argueably a better solution), they let the computer do the no-fun part of the game. From a pure technical standpoint, that's a more elegant solution, and seeing how fishing is no fun I can empathize with their reasoning for doing so.

Now if fishing was more fun, and more intereactive, you wouldn't be have botters in the first place, or far fewer botters. WHy you don't see mining bots, or synthesis bots? Because those things take more interactions to do.

[Deedlit]

Originally posted by Xephoid
WHy you don't see mining bots, or synthesis bots? Because those things take more interactions to do.

I have a feeling those are around too, just not as easy to script =P

[Macht]

They are easy to script, since map designs don't change all you do is script as wandering bot that just moves around the map. when it gets to know points of a harvesting point or mining point it sends the command to /target "Harvesting Point" or /target "Mining Point" then sends a /trade. The harder point of the coding is getting it to select the item you want it to out of the inventory, that one is purely on visual cue's.

Once that's done it just returns to it's wander mode.

Not that hard really once you get use to going by visual cue's in your coding.

Paiku:
Quite a rude response, more attacking then point out something. Just like another person posted here though, putting in a huge involvement like that wouldn't be right to do to just 1 craft. They'd have to do it to all crafts, that starts to get a lot more complex and starts leaving less possibilities for them to do. Not to mention the amount of coding required for that, to implement more crafting abilities and such from doing that would be an insaine task that would require an enormous amount of human resources to develop and maintain.

The bottom line for that request means they'd have to increase the charges to continue making a profit. The method they have it at now is an easy to maintain method and holds some reality/fantasy to how it's done. That lets them gear what come out of them more to the story and fighting aspects of the game. If I really must I'll detail out why your request is insaine but I really don't want to.

Even with other games if their focus isn't to the crafting part of the game then most likely it's design is going to be along the same lines. To make it more modular instead of complicating it needlessly.

[vulcan4d]

Hmm I experienced the same thing but it started LONG before anyone mentioned it here, at the time I thought it was a bug but it's happening more frequently now. Maybe I was a beta tester for their new anti-bot method back in March because I recall this happening to me twice that month, turning 45deg clockwise. I thought it was a bug so I didn't think much of it but just a few days ago the very same thing, I turned 45deg clockwise. Then again the very next day. I don't think it's a bot fighting a bot, otherwise this would be happening every hour. I think it's manually done, then the GM's go out and check each fisherman's log in that area to see if they get the cannot fish error over and over again. Until now I wasn't to sure what was going on but after reading about others experiencing the same problem it's cleary SE's counter-method against fishing bots.

So now instead of logging out thinking it's an error, I'll just /emote slaps the GM in the face, "stay out of my things!"

lol