Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

[cidbahamut]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

spoilered for awesome

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Well, TES has always had the player character work as a catalyst rather, always working for someone else and championing for X deity or Y character. So in that sense Skyrim follows tradition. However considering the last time a real Dragonborn appeared (Tiber Septim) he reunified Skyrim and became king I was hoping for a more central role this time around. But alas, it doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

I don't think the Dragonborn's story is exactly done yet. The civil war of Skyrim and the return of Alduin were just the end of existing prophecy and the whole of Tamriel is ripe for an attack. Not by dragons exactly, but their former masters most likely. What more important of a role than have the dragonborn drive away an invasion?

Also remember the Champion of Cyrodil that ended the Oblivion crisis went on to become the new incarnation of Sheagorath and Morrowind's Champion had other important roles.

Just got the Tavern clothes and Savior's Hide, the sexiest getups in all of skyrim, I'm done for the night.

[Raydeus]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

I feel that way too, but I think choices to mold the story can only go so far before you're suddenly a God writing history. You can influence whether the Empire or the Stormcloaks triumph. And, as the Dragonborn, you're certainly an important person whose influence cannot be discounted. But I think it's just supposed to reflect reality in the game that you cannot get exactly what you want, down to a tee. In a way, it makes me feel more like part of the world of Skyrim when there are some forces beyond my control, especially when it comes to the politics.

Well, TES has always had the player character work as a catalyst rather, always working for someone else and championing for X deity or Y character. So in that sense Skyrim follows tradition. However considering the last time a real Dragonborn appeared (Tiber Septim) he reunified Tamriel and became king I was hoping for a more central role this time around. But alas, it doesn't seem like it's going to happen.



Fallout games on the other hand give you more influence over the world, be it that you choose to do things your way or support a faction. Ironically, in Fallout you are always the chosen one to do as you wish with the world for the most part, even if you are just a human. For instance in Fallout 3 you can nuke a city, and in New Vegas you can kill pretty much anyone, and take over the Strip if you want. Which is why as much as I love Skyrim I can't wait for Fallout 4.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

I think the ambiguity of choice is a card in TES's favor. There's more going on in this one game than in all of the Mass Effect trilogy. We're talking thousands of NPCs versus a central cast with minor story flavoring. Sure its neat that little choices flavor the main story arch, but its relatively minor events, its cool they can die or even be replaced, but it doesn't change the core story in the slightest.

ME actually punishes ambiguity, however, when it should be as much of an option. You go back and forth on Paragon and Renegade choices and you never get enough moral points to go forther in either direction. its stupid that they went with something so rigid.

Compare this to Adam Jensen in DXHR - Everything about him is ambiguous. He's a decent guy with a checkered past. Any choice you're given isn't too far removed from what he might actually do, be it good or bad. People complain the story doesn't match up with their choices, but then, all the core characters are just as ambiguous as he is. Sarif and Taggert aren't inherently evil men, but their motives can be taken to extremes that could do evil. There aren't really any "good" choices, only polite or bad ones.

[Ketaru]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Agreed, but it's more about the lack of options thing regarding the storyline. I mean I like that all sides in the conflict are pretty gray, but not being able to make some different decisions along the way detracts from the experience.

I feel that way too, but I think choices to mold the story can only go so far before you're suddenly a God writing history. You can influence whether the Empire or the Stormcloaks triumph. And, as the Dragonborn, you're certainly an important person whose influence cannot be discounted. But I think it's just supposed to reflect reality in the game that you cannot get exactly what you want, down to a tee. In a way, it makes me feel more like part of the world of Skyrim when there are some forces beyond my control, especially when it comes to the politics.

Personally, that's trouble I'm having right now with the decision to join the Imperial army or not. It sounds silly since the point is to roleplay, but I always like to see a little bit of myself in characters that I make. And, as of now, there really is no option to just remain neutral and see how the Civil War pans out. At least, as far as I've gotten in the game at the moment. I'm definitely leaning Empire, which is probably supposed to be uncharacteristic of Nord. All of this is ignoring, of course, that if I were a citizen of Skyrim, I'd probably just be a lowly shopkeeper.

It's too bad. As a previous response pointed out, creating a sort of craftsman-type character is a terrible choice, even if the skills make themselves available to do it. Much like the whole Bard idea kind of fell flat (with skills focusing on things like Restoration, Illusion, One Handed Weapons, Light Armor, and Speech), it would be kind of cool to make a character renown for being a well-to-do traveling merchant. For now, I'm just that guy who favors Light Armor and am a recent student of the College of Winterhold. I would love it if there were that kind of option. But for now, people just seem to recognize you as a fighter, a mage, or a rogue.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Well here's the thing - you could have all those wild faction-y choices, but by the time the game went gold the DLC was probably only starting to take shape in terms of story and concept.

There's a lot of shit going on in Tamriel right now. For one, the Argonians of gotten their revenge upon the dark elves and imperials of Morrowind, but I don't think they bothered to improve things for their former fellow slaves, the Kahjit. Hammerfell is in a sort of turmoil similar to Skyrim, just based off the quest that involved Saadia, who's apparently an toady for the Dominion and the Thalmor. Not much is said about Elsewyer, other than trade opportunities make other areas ripe for exploration. And Cyrodil is a shadow of its former self and somewhat the basis for why the Nords despise the Imperials and Elves so much.

Its not just that they want to worship Talos, but that the Thalmor come in and treat everyone like dirt.

Now you have the dragon situation somehwhat resolved, but who stands to benefit from all this instability across Tamriel, as well as random dragons fucking shit up everywhere?

Maybe these guys.

We have two roads in the game - one leading to Cyrodil and the other to Morrowind. Were the Akaviri to strike, they'd probably go with the weakend Morrowind first, move to Cyrodil and then up to Skyrim. I'm not quite as sure about Elsewyer and Hammerfell as those environments are probably less friendly to the invaders. There's clearly no reason to go to VVardenfall.

Its speculation, but those roads are also likely there for a reason.

[Raydeus]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Remember Saadia's quest? I liked the way it could play out since you could doublecross any of them whenever you wanted.

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

Blades

PS > Yeah, there's no chance in hell I'd ever kill Paarthurnax

Is that really a spoiler? <_<;

[cidbahamut]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

My character in my main save file is smart enough not to pick a side. He sees the evils in both and takes a more Grey Beard style approach to the whole thing. It's put him at odds with the Blades, but they're pretty clueless honestly.

---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

Agreed, but it's more about the lack of options thing regarding the storyline. I mean I like that all sides in the conflict are pretty gray, but not being able to make some different decisions along the way detracts from the experience.

Exactly, the factions are varying shades of grey, but the decisions you can make are all black and white.

[Raydeus]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Yeah, the Civil war is in dire need for more options.

There are way too many ways things could play differently. And since New Vegas already had tons of options like that I think Bethesda could've taken some faction gameplay advice from the Obsidian.

What if...

-You could turn on Ulfric's men when they tried to remove Balgruuf?
-Or take power for yourself and kick both the Stormcloaks and the Empire, marry Elisif and become High King.
-Or just challenge Ulfric to a duel and just Shout him to death Dovahkiin style and take over the rebelion. Then do things your way.

Etc. etc.

Or simply be able to destroy the Thieves Guild. Probably the lack of storyline options (specially when compared to New Vegas) is the weakest part of Skyrim. But expansions and mods will probably change that.

Options to expand Skyrim are limitless really, like having some kind of High King gameplay. Where you could have a sort of city admin sim and you managed Skyrim with taxes, production, research, etc. to make your empire better and more prosper. With rebellions and others taking place and you having to decide how to use your resources Total War style.

Things like that. XD

I've tried both stories but I've yet to pick a side on my "official" save file. For now I'm just having fun traveling around Skyrim and bumping into quests, random events and Dovah debates.

And I have to say, not using Fast Travel has been the best decision I've ever made. Bethesda did an awesome work with Skyrim itself, even if the people living there lacks some depth.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

Part of the appeal is that is not a nice world to be in.

Agreed, but it's more about the lack of options thing regarding the storyline. I mean I like that all sides in the conflict are pretty gray, but not being able to make some different decisions along the way detracts from the experience.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Its a civil war, both sides are dirty to some degree.

With Skyrim, you have an empire not only in complete turmoil within each nation, but a supremacist group imposing on the last and proudest nation in Tamriel. The wars in Morrowind have scattered the dark elves from their homeland by the Argonians, Hammerfell has a resistance group waging war on the Aldimeri dominion, Vvardenfall is just gone and Cyrodil is a shadow of its former self, letting the Dominion imposes its rules on religion and social standing. Now you have the Aldimeri Dominion imposing itself on Skyrim and all these dragons tearing up shit.

If you look at it from the perspective of your rank-and-file Stormcloak, they just want to protect their home and way of life, which is very easy to sympathize with. Ulfric certainly isn't doing a lot to bring the various races together, but at the same time he's not turning them all away. Its really the city of Windhelm that is paranoid to the point of outright racism. Morrowind was worse, though, as the Dark Elves and Imperials alike regularly enslaved Kahjit and Argonians, so you could argue they got what they deserved. There were Imperials that were not above such cruelty to other races in Oblivion, either, One imperial duchess had a torture chamber for Argonians.

The Count of Skingrad was also a bit of dodgy character. He wanted to best for his people, but if they knew he was a vampire they'd hunt him down without mercy so he has a number of ... countermeasures in place to make sure anyone that suspects or is open to squealing is disposed of.

Part of the appeal is that is not a nice world to be in.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Today in Skyrim:

^ New name for this thread? I think so.

I gave up on my dumb Nord with the war hammer. I think it was finally joining the civil war quest line that did it this time. Without even getting very far in I as a player just ended up rather disgusted with how it was playing out. My intention was to role-play this character as some sort of true blue Nord that would be very sympathetic to Ulfric's cause, but

Civil War spoilers

after invading Whiterun...I just felt dirty. I liked Balgruuf and seeing him driven out of his city made me feel like such an asshole. The worst part is I suspect the result will be exactly the same if I join the Legion since they've set Balgruuf up as mostly neutral and the two feuding families that are blatant proxies for the Empire and the Stormcloaks.

So the Civil war just left a bad taste in my mouth. On to the next character.

This time I'm aiming to have a more generic adventuring type from Cyrodil. Moderate amounts of swordplay, but a heavy emphasis on Conjuration magic. It's working out so far, but without all the perks in armor and weapons and blocking the melee combat is pretty rough. Or maybe it's because I keep gravitating towards light armor instead of heavy and have yet to take off my stylish Imperial Light Armor. Nah...

[Raydeus]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

Today in Skyrim:

I got myself caught and imprisoned to try that Wanted thing Steam mentions. And in the process of sneaking around to escape I had the brilliant idea of using LAAS to see if there were any guards nearby. So of course a guard heard my shout and came looking for me, and since I was in a little room at the time he found me pretty fast.

Guard: I'm need to ask you to stop. That... shouting... is making people nervous.
Me: <_<; >_>; Uh, sorry. It wont happen again...
Guard: "Good, glad we straightened that out.

...wait a minute, you are a prisoner!!!"

And then tried to attack me, but I have Shadow Warrior.


Gotta love this game. XD

[Raydeus]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

I was looking at some pics just now and found this:

Click

Kinda related.

[Raydeus]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

At first I tried using normal cooldown as an experiment, but the dragon got away because I took too long. I also had plenty of time to regain any health lost just running around and healing, so it wasn't very fun.

Then after some trial and error I kinda struck a good balance between being able to stand my ground against dragons while shouting and having to take cover to heal or to avoid taking breath attacks to the face.

__

And I just had something odd but nice happen. I was having a debate with a Dragon when out of nowhere a giant and a mammoth joined the party*, and pretty much at the same time we turned on them and took one of the mobs each. Then proceeded to pwn them. And then... then the dragon just stood up there without attacking, and I didn't attack either. After that the dragon just took off and flew away fairly slowly.

So...I think I just made a new friend. XD

Gotta love Skyrim.


*Well, I think we kinda sort of crashed their camp and started setting things on fire, but never mind that. <_<

[Nandito]

Re: Elder Scrolls SKYRIM

I think there's an amulet of Talos that speeds up shout recast if you want to go legit, but all Ray's done is speed up the process. It's really not that hard to survive a dragon attack by running the hell away and healing until your shout timer is up.

Yep-yep, along with the Blessing of Talos; I think the total ends up being a 45% cool down.

Still wondering if there's a way to get that shout recast on an enchant.