Hotz vs SCEA

[Mhurron]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

FTFY. Hope Sony takes his ass to the cleaners. I just really hate all these little shits who think too much of themselves and hack shit for the hell of it. The World already has more than enough shit disturbers in it tyvm.

For the hell of it and to see if you can are the only reason to do things. Direct your anger where it should be.

[DakAttack]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

For the hell of it and to see if you can are the only reason to do things. Direct your anger where it should be.

Your attitude is on-target, but you being so extremely wrong is something I'm not used to.

[Mhurron]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

Oh? Without devolving to the 'argument' that cheaters could use it, explain the issue with hardware hacking.

[Absentia]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

If only our legal system were this fair.

In my uneducated opinion, I feel like the legal system works more for those who know how to manipulate it. *shrugs*

Edit: Also, @ Kailea, I find it hard to believe that every ROM you've ever had has only been for a game that no longer gives money to the game maker.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

I like how when someone completely ruins BBQ's arguments, he just picks out certain parts to continue down a new argument and completely ignores the parts of his argument that get destroyed.

Funny how it happens when you're cheering for one side but have no argument of your own to make. I did say the law could be on Hotz's side as there is a precedent for jailbraking hardware set by the courts with the iPhone case just months ago. Do try to pay attention.

I took the gun argument people were making and raised it to nukes, mostly just to demonstrate how absurd the gun argument was, but also to make a point. Leaping from jailbreaking PS3s to to guns is quite ridiculous. Feba strolls in after a necrobump of a five week-old thread to paint it like I'm insensitive to the situation in Japan, which is bullshit because I have friends in Japan.

My point is these seemingly nice ideas at the time have a legacy of consequence. Einstein and other scientists were ridden with guilt, to say nothing of the man the dropped the bomb on Japan most likely for the rest of his life. That display of force with nukes has reshaped the political climate or the world, to say nothing of the social, political and cultural climate of Japan for decades. That's the legacy.

But apparently Feba, pet troll that he is, can just stroll in here and make the remark sound insensitive five weeks later. Japan quake was three weeks ago. That's not to diminish what is quite a big deal, but people are sure suddenly educated about radiation and nuclear tech now aren't they? Awareness is back, we see the legacy rear its head again.

"Its my hardware" sounds nice on paper, it sounds well-intentioned. And yes, it is your hardware. What is not yours is the software - and this is the crux of the argument the pro-homebrew crowd is more than willing to dance around and ignore.

Operating systems are intellectual property and they are subject to copyright law. They are not yours to play with as you see fit and they never were.

The creator of the intellectual property is within their rights to protect it. Are you people telling me that Sony, Nintendo, MS and the designers, artists and musicians out there have no right to protect their own work?

Geohotz tampered with an OS and showed the world how to do it and the result is that a whole lot of "homebrew" people showed up to pirate as opposed to using it to make their own games with Other OS.

I've heard of dozens and dozens of nifty Kinect hacks these last few months, but nothing cool about using Other OS for PS3 save for you can use it to pirate games. Wii was hacked, apparently, to demake Smash Bros. Brawl into Melee because people are just that retarded for Melee - a game that was playable on the Wii last I checked.

Where are the nifty uses for other OS on PS3 that enhance the system rather than diminish it and harm developers? Go on, post them.

Also, I'd like for you to show me all the ways the homebrew community benefitted the PSP. I'd love to see that because it seems like gamers in Japan are the only ones with enough dignity to actually purchase games for it, aside from a handful of western gamers. I mean, one can only wonder why PSP bombed in the west - I don't think it was for a lack of awesome games because they seem to come up around here with some level of frequency.

PSP's legacy in the west of that of a failure, which is unfortunate, but largely due to so-called "homebrewers" showing people how to rip and steal games for it. This is why Sony has so many firmware updates and why they started making things less accessible to users.

TL:DR: This is why we can't have nice things.

Bottom line for me is I want to live in a world where art can be respected and those that create it can make a living doing so. Homebrewing seems to create problems with that, often because its piracy and not homebrewing. Unfortunately for legit homebrewers, we can't have one without the other and the bad apples seem to outweigh to good ones.

I don't think Geohotz is one of the good ones at any rate, his behavior reflects that.

[Absentia]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

I'm not cheering any side. I've just witnessed this a few times with you while I lurk these forums. :3

[Armando]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

@BBQ: You keep bringing up the PSP yet neglect to mention the DS, which is 50 times easier to pirate for yet it continues to print money. You don't need to go through all these obscure steps to hack it, you just shell out $15 for an R4 clone and you're done. Even non-tech-savvy people can do play pirated DS games. The Wii was hacked early in its lifetime and it's still a success.

I'm not saying piracy doesn't hurt Nintendo - but clearly a console's success or lack of success isn't indicative of the damage piracy does to it.

EDIT:

I've heard of dozens and dozens of nifty Kinect hacks these last few months, but nothing cool about using Other OS for PS3 save for you can use it to pirate games. Wii was hacked, apparently, to demake Smash Bros. Brawl into Melee because people are just that retarded for Melee - a game that was playable on the Wii last I checked.

You clearly haven't played enough of either game to judge.

Also I don't see how Kinect projects are comparable to hacking the console. But you could at least mention Wiimote projects too. You know what it is the PS3 lacks? A motion control system people care about.

[DakAttack]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

@BBQ: You keep bringing up the PSP yet neglect to mention the DS, which is 50 times easier to pirate for yet it continues to print money. You don't need to go through all these obscure steps to hack it, you just shell out $15 for an R4 clone and you're done. Even non-tech-savvy people can do play pirated DS games. The Wii was hacked early in its lifetime and it's still a success.

I'm not saying piracy doesn't hurt Nintendo - but clearly a console's success or lack of success isn't indicative of the damage piracy does to it.

People who play the Wii don't pirate games. They're busy being casuals and doing things other than playing the Wii.

[Firewind]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

Also add the PS1, which was ridiculously easy to hack to play pirated games on and that didn't stop it from winning it's console war.

Piracy is not the reason why games and consoles bomb, there are far more things that effect it that piracy, DRM being a big one. Find a game that has a retarded DRM that harms the legitimate consumer far more than the pirate, like say Dragon Age 2, Assassin's Creed or just about everything that uses Steamworks for the retail version?

Now name me how many of those were hacked or pirated due to the DRM because legitimate consumers didn't want their PC ruined by some horrible rootkit that the developer makes no attempt to notify the player of even in the EULA? Installing DRM rootkits without the consent of the user DOES fall under under the legal definition of "hacking" in much of Europe.

Bethadsa Softworks actually no longer issues Authentication keys with retail versions of their software because of how useless DRM is in the long run. Now guess how many of their games are pirated and hacked compared to the devs who do force DRM onto people who don't want to install it?

Now we have done that, compare how many times a game is pirated to how many times a game is purchased.

People want to support artists but people also don't want the artist's paymaster telling them they don't deserve to appreciate the artist's work, nor to they want the money they spend to access the artist's work to all go to the retailer or the artist's bloated paymaster.

I don't support or condone piracy but it's easy to see why people do it, especially in the current economic climate. At risk of becoming an apostate, I have no issue with calling myself a pirate sympathiser and have no shame in admitting that. That being said: Gaming is my hobby and I love to have a physical thing to hold and look at (which is why I also find Digital Distribution so soul crushing) so I will always prefer buying to piracy. The only time I will download a ROM or ISO is when it will be impossible for me to play the game legitimately, or if I already own a copy of the game and would like a copy for hacking and data mining, and for whatever reason I can't make my own.

[DakAttack]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

Also add the PS1, which was ridiculously easy to hack to play pirated games on and that didn't stop it from winning it's console war.

Piracy is not the reason why games and consoles bomb, there are far more things that effect it that piracy, DRM being a big one. Find a game that has a retarded DRM that harms the legitimate consumer far more than the pirate, like say Dragon Age 2, Assassin's Creed or just about everything that uses Steamworks for the retail version?

Now name me how many of those were hacked or pirated due to the DRM because legitimate consumers didn't want their PC ruined by some horrible rootkit that the developer makes no attempt to notify the player of even in the EULA? Installing DRM rootkits without the consent of the user DOES fall under under the legal definition of "hacking" in much of Europe.

Bethadsa Softworks actually no longer issues Authentication keys with retail versions of their software because of how useless DRM is in the long run. Now guess how many of their games are pirated and hacked compared to the devs who do force DRM onto people who don't want to install it?

Now we have done that, compare how many times a game is pirated to how many times a game is purchased.

People want to support artists but people also don't want the artist's paymaster telling them they don't deserve to appreciate the artist's work, nor to they want the money they spend to access the artist's work to all go to the retailer or the artist's bloated paymaster.

I don't support or condone piracy but it's easy to see why people do it, especially in the current economic climate. At risk of becoming an apostate, I have no issue with calling myself a pirate sympathiser and have no shame in admitting that. That being said: Gaming is my hobby and I love to have a physical thing to hold and look at (which is why I also find Digital Distribution so soul crushing) so I will always prefer buying to piracy. The only time I will download a ROM or ISO is when it will be impossible for me to play the game legitimately, or if I already own a copy of the game and would like a copy for hacking and data mining, and for whatever reason I can't make my own.

You can't blame the cause on the effect.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

You can't blame the cause on the effect.

At this point I think it's a self-perpetuating cycle.

[Firewind]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

A self-perpetuating cycle that is being solved with a sledgehammer and not surgery.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

@BBQ: You keep bringing up the PSP yet neglect to mention the DS, which is 50 times easier to pirate for yet it continues to print money. You don't need to go through all these obscure steps to hack it, you just shell out $15 for an R4 clone and you're done. Even non-tech-savvy people can do play pirated DS games. The Wii was hacked early in its lifetime and it's still a success.

I'm not saying piracy doesn't hurt Nintendo - but clearly a console's success or lack of success isn't indicative of the damage piracy does to it.

I didn't bring up DS just for the sake of time and the discussion being more Sony centric. Piracy has unquestionably damaged PSP in the west and while Nintendo's audience may have just as much of it going on, it seems within that 140+ Million DS userbase that more than enough people with the dignity to buy games.

That doesn't diminish the evil of piracy, but it does dampen the blow. PSP's worldwide market share is over 60 million and the majority of that is in Japan right now. The west clearly favors Nintendo's handhelds and iOS platforms, which is damaging enough to Sony so the rampant piracy for PSP clearly is not helping matters.

As much as I want to rail on Sony for dropping UMD support on NGP, I can hardly blame them for ditching a sinking ship no matter how great its games still are. Murdering UMD means killing PSP's used market in retail, too. I don't like that, but its the truth. Its pretty clear to me Sony wants PSP good and dead and maybe that's in everyone's best interests on the developer side where NGP is concerned, UMD could just be another backdoor to piracy.

The only piracy 3DS has seen so far is just the R4, which is just still pirating DS games, so its reading it as a DS cart again, basically. Downside to that is Nintendo can get data on your activity log and everything that goes into your 3DS gets cataloged and can't be deleted.

[DakAttack]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

A self-perpetuating cycle that is being solved with a sledgehammer and not surgery.

Metaphor fail. So far, there's been no solution to piracy that's in any way relatable to surgery.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Hotz vs SCEA

Metaphor fail. So far, there's been no solution to piracy that's in any way relatable to surgery.

ftfy