Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I'm not so sure if I agree with you on the science point - would need to see some hard evidence of that. However, things like NOVA and Neil Degras Tyson make science fun and interesting.

Let me put it another. The way math and science are taught is like FFXIII. They'll bombard you with a fuckton of tutorials until some people just burn out on it. Most math book writers can't even tall a good story and the math language is so dull it doesn't help. Zelda; OOT does not really do this - instead of slamming prompts down your throat they give you a small sandbox with signposts. The player is trusted to read it and given reasons to use the information almost right away. Each new tool opens up new possibilities and the player is encouraged to experiment and find out what they are.

One insists upon vertical progression, which for someone that's more of a horizontal thinker (which is to say daydreamy, spiritual, artsy) makes these subjects feel unscalable. FFXIII might be beatable, but it is certainly not engaging for fun. Zelda:OOT, on the other hand, embraces lateral thinking. The logic may seem abstract on the surface, but as you progress the use of those newer fancy tools comes to you faster, more intuitively. This is also why Western RPGs have gain so much more popularity in recent years, they've ditched vertical progression and thinking for lateral instead.

Math and science can be taught laterally and end up catching more people than the vertical method. Math can be turned into a game. People like games. If you show people the fun you can have with science (ohi Mythbusters, Vsauce) you can make the process and experimentation more fun.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

FFXI did more to teach me about economics than any course I took in school LOL.

It also helped with number crunching. I must have spent countless hours taking into account the various formulas for optimizing performance and profits vs expenditures etc. Games are a fantastic way to teach Math & critical thinking skills, if applied correctly.

I'm not so sure if I agree with you on the science point - would need to see some hard evidence of that. However, things like NOVA and Neil Degras Tyson make science fun and interesting.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Interesting video. While as with Samuel L. Jackson I'm not too invested in what musicians and actors think, there are some that have been out there and have done serious charity work to be commended for. Kid Rock and Will.i.am do bear that distinction:

Personally, my only problem with what Will.i.am said was "STEM." When it comes to education, that's all Democrats and Republicans ever focus on when they bother to focus on it.

Science - Science is cool, but its nothing without asking questions. Science has sadly stopped being about this, Its now taught as dogma in schools. If kids were taught English, Literature and book reports had priority over science lab, Science classes would only benefit See, like science, literary and journalistic research start with a premise, a theory, a lead. If your book report hinges on a certain interpretation - like Mercutio being gay in Romeo and Juliet - you have hypothesis there and have to prove it. How do we prove this lead? We look at the source material, we look for the information that agress and contrast it with things that may disagree. Variables and controls. So you do the reasearch, you find the evidence and results to support he hypothesis and end with either a very strong theory or facts. the reason science suffers its the system fails to push English and literature as hard so students don't learn to correlate these things. Hell, even home economics is a good start to science. Cooking has chemical reactions - and what's more fun that getting to make something and eat the result?

Technology and Engineering - Obviously Science and Math converge here a great deal, But if we only each those things, people aren't going to think out of the box. Theater tends to require a bit of construction and learning the benefits of technology. Microphones, lighting, cameras, visibility, sound, reverb, building set pieces. Wood Shop is a great thing, it does encourage creativity and artistry so there's no qualms there. It fits - but its never mandatory, always optional.

Math - I don't give a damn when Train A leaves Station X and Train B leaves station Y, at what speeds over some distance and when they meet. This is a BORING way of explaining math. You know what isn't a boring way of explaining math. Sports, music abd, hell, even video games. Math is all up in that and people tend to grasp it quickly when its applied to something interesting. RPGs base themselves around math. Everyone that's in high school now grew up with Pokemon. Exploit that, football, soccer, tennis and music. You have kids that can do a good DPS build for WoW that are failing math because teachers don't engage them the right ways.

So much of STEM would be so much better if they let this other stuff in instead of cutting it off every time.

Moving on...

[Firewind]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

The NHS in the UK is pretty much paid for through taxes and not through mandated insurance.

Health tourism really isn't much of a problem in the UK due to EU Regulations.

European Health Insurance Card - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Having one of those will get you free medical care in Europe because it's a requirement that you have some kind of Social Security Number to get one. This doesn't render Travel Insurance obsolete but it does mean that the relevant nation's health service can recoup any costs from the EU itself. Countries that take part on the scheme can turn down the use of this card and demand that the person pay their own bills though some other means like insurance, if they have a very good reason, one of them being it's obvious that the person is only in the country to get free treatment.

As for non-EU visitors tryi nto get free healthcare. I can link you to a list of the regulations here. That is for England only, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have slightly different regulations.

There's also a couple of other lists if you want to see what the NHA here will and will not cover:

This is basically a list of what kinds of non-emergency, non-life threatening things that the NHS will or may cover.
List of the things that you have to pay for but can get help to pay for if you qualify (Dentist fees, prescriptions etc)

And yes in the UK it is entirely possible to buy private health insurance and go to a private practise which is all every bit as expensive as it is in the US.

As for Immigration. Here in the UK it's a combination of government fuck ups, and the EU Free Movement regulations that were intended to allow easy trade by making it much easier to travel from country to country. So instead of your delivery driver having go go through customs and immigration every time they cross a border they are free to keep moving their goods.

As you can imagine, this was fantastic for small businesses and a wet dream for big corporations who now only need a tiny presence in the EU to exploit these regulations.

As you can also imagine, these regulations were also abused to no end for the purposes of migration by people in the EU. Economic Migration is actually putting a real strain on EU nations that are allowing it to run unchecked like the EU to the point where "DEY TEWK UR JERBS!" actually isn't as dumb a thing to yell as it sounds due to Government fuck ups when it comes to EU Regulations. As it stands there isn't much stopping me from moving to a country that is as dumb as the UK is about this like say France, grab a job there and watch the locals fume because local hiring practises don't favour the local community. I would have given Germany as an example but they actually favour hiring Germans and aren't actually afraid to say "We aren't going to hire you because we think you are only here as an economic immigrant and will vanish the second work dries up" (I know this from experience). Unlike the most of the rest of the EU.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I think there's also other issues to consider. Problems like non-citizens getting free health care while people that can prove their citizenship are being forced to buy insurance by mandate (and don't weasel, it is a mandate no matter how you gussy it up). So citizens are techinically paying for the health care of people that don't have to pay at all. This is fact. Fathom the stupidity and hypocrisy of that for a moment and remember our government made that happen. President, House, Congress, Supreme Court - a nice, big fail in all three branches.

That will cause a strain on this system, its another reason why its not sustainable. This on top of a government that will not reform the immigration system to make the path to citizenship easier so these people can pay in, too. You can't just pull a Regan-style amnesty without pissing off immigrants that have become citizens, either. Regan's amnesty was a necessary thing, it wasn't fostered by three decades of ineptitude with the border or decades more of US meddling south of the border. I know why some people hop the border and can't blame them for not wanting to cross back over given what they'd potentially face to get home. The US and Mexican governments need to own up to their fuck-ups but that's not going to happen with the leaders we have now.

[Malacite]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I would also like to add that in the U.K., doctors are actually paid according to how well their patients are doing correct? There's incentive pay to actively enforce preventative health care.

That's another massive problem with the system in the U.S. - it's like 90% reactionary. It costs far more to fix a problem once it's occurred than to prevent it from happening in the first place. And yes Ray, you really do make a hell of a lot more money in the private sector vs a system like ours. Hell, it's gotten to the point where you have doctors trying to maximize their profits by minimizing the time spent with their patients.

Also, as far as going anywhere for fast, efficient care, more and more people are going to India - not the U.S., for things like major operations.

[Firewind]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

You're also completely and utterly ignoring the facts that:

1) If you can afford it you can also go private to bypass waiting lists. In the UK you can feel free to bankrupt yourself if you don't fancy waiting for non-emergency treatment.

2) You're assuming that my father, or the average working/middle class person in the UK for that matter, can afford to go on medical leave in the first place. Especially with our current Government cutting what little help there is to help people in that circumstance.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Waiting lists and triage don't exactly strike me as the same thing. One is born of a beuracracy and the other is constantly improvised. A seven or eight month wait for an MRI on anything seems a bit too long to me. Letting a man with a cyst on a major vessel or artery wait and allow him to work - also not the best idea. Places I've worked would put you on medical leave to avoid incident (and liability suits, obviously) and you'd get something done about that.

You guys seem to be advocating that suffering under a bigger bureaucracy is somehow better than suffering without coverage. I just see Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown in both cases.

[Firewind]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I'm sure immediately life-threatening situations get pushed up in priority; they're not going to wait on an MRI for someone who just suffered a stroke or other immediately debilitating situation. Someone with progressive arthritis or other slow degenerative conditions are the ones that are likely to get pushed back.


Icemage

Pretty much this. You are acting like there is no such thing as Triage in a country with universal healthcare. I do have an analogy to share BBQ.

My father had a cyst on his arm that was benign. He was put on a waiting list to have it removed. It was sitting on a major blood vessel so he had to avoid damaging it, but because it wasn't immediately life threatening then he had to wait for a month. At work someone bumped past my father and more or less burst the cyst, causing him to lose a lot of blood. Not only was that injury immediately treated but he only had to wait a couple of days (mostly due to the people before him in the list being the "life or death" priority people) for it to be completely removed.

And another story:

During my first year od college I decided to give blood. Now I suffer from anaemia but had no idea at the time how it would effect my capability to give blood, but the nurses at the Uni Clinic said I would be fine. So didn't know that losing enough blood to make me feel faint could well make me pass out and could actually put me into shock and kill me if I lose more. You can probably see where I am going with this...I remember the needle going in and waking up a little later in A&E with a very cute nurse pressing a ridiculously sweet cup of tea into my hands. Now there was nothing life threatening going on there since they saw my records and knew why I passed out. They treated me but they also damn well made sure that there was nothing else wrong with me first before letting me go (they found out that I also had an infection requiring antibiotics so they prescribed me some and sent me on my way). It also gave me a fun story to tell everyone later as well.

And another:

One of my grandfathers ended up going into shock due to blood poisoning and was rushed to A&E. We didn't find out until then that he has septicaemia and gangrene in one of his toes due to diabetes and him injuring the toe without telling anyone. So basically he went from someone being treated for blood poisoning to pretty much the top of the amputation waiting list. Problem is is that by this time (he never told anyone he was ill), the doctors were basically chasing the infection up his leg and removing more and more but there wasn't anything else they could do given that the infection was already in his bloodstream and causing organ failure (leading to him and my parents deciding to sign a DNR). He died close to midnight on Boxing Day 1999 (26th December for non-Commonwealth folk). There wasn't much that the doctors could do but he was given the best treatment possible until it was clear there wasn't anything more that could be done, and even then lawyers had to be involved for the DNR.

And a final story:

I got into a fight with another member of the Rugby Team at High School during a game (lead to us both being sent off for 10 minutes), and one of my teeth was broken in the process. It wasn't life threatening at all but since it was something that needed treatment right away I got to see a dentist the next morning who fixed everything (root canal, crown, the works).

[Icemage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

I'm sure immediately life-threatening situations get pushed up in priority; they're not going to wait on an MRI for someone who just suffered a stroke or other immediately debilitating situation. Someone with progressive arthritis or other slow degenerative conditions are the ones that are likely to get pushed back.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

As Stewart said in the debate, nobody goes broke in Canada or the UK under exorbitant medical bills. They may not be able to provide the same premium care in those countries that our system can, but at least their systems don't ruin lives. First do no harm.

If you have a tumor or cyst in your brain, a seven month wait for an MRI to even spot it wouldn't just ruin your life, it may very well do damage and kill you. I'm not one to presume what perils or illnesses others have faced in life, but speaking as someone who's had said cyst in brain, experienced epileptic seizures and panic attacks and that has been hit by an SUV at 45 MPH while crossing in a crosswalk legally - I'm kinda grateful there was a system in place that allowed for fast, effective care.

I've had my problems with it. Finding the basis for my panic attacks with psychologists was like talking to auto repairmen. Everyone had a solution and it differed from the previous one. What cost me thousands of dollars could have been stop if someone had just homed in on my "sleep problems" comment and directed me ot a sleep therapist. So, yes, there are problems. I don't think anyone denies it. It isn't just a problem with insurers, but a problem of pride as well.

[Taskmage]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

As Stewart said in the debate, nobody goes broke in Canada or the UK under exorbitant medical bills. They may not be able to provide the same premium care in those countries that our system can, but at least their systems don't ruin lives. First do no harm.

[Raydeus]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

They really go through the trouble of going to the US and spending way more just because of that? That sounds very unlikely to me.

Maybe for a specialist for some very serious disease, but for most other things I seriously doubt the US is that much better than Canada for the money.

[Mezlo]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

Because we stole all the doctors. Yes.

Despite that we still have a metric fuckton of people who can't get healthcare when they need it. That makes the system bad. This is not difficult to follow.

We get healthcare alot faster than Canada is the point I made and BBQ concurred by relating a personal story. And LOL at us "stealing" their doctors!

[cidbahamut]

Re: Melody's Melodramatic Meltdown on Mitt Romney (Tounge Twister?)

What Canadians do when they need some medical procedure quickly and can't stand to wait around an aggregious amount of time in Canada, is they come to the US for it.

Because we stole all the doctors. Yes.

Despite that we still have a metric fuckton of people who can't get healthcare when they need it. That makes the system bad. This is not difficult to follow.