What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

[Ketaru]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I rather doubt the Council of Nicea was consciously optimizing their collection to best persuade billions of minds over thousands of years. Let's face it, if we created a council today to make a book that people would still be talking about in ten years, nobody would remember it after five. The success of the Bible was the product of a stroke of luck and millenia of human history.

You know, across the board, things just aren't built the way they used to be. We've created grand architectural designs throughout history. Things that became wonders of the world. Things that have stood the test of time for centuries. Now, I don't think we have it in us to even build anything like the Twin Towers anymore.

Do you think we've made anything: arts, architecture, or otherwise, that is meant to stand the test of time in this generation?

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I rather doubt the Council of Nicea was consciously optimizing their collection to best persuade billions of minds over thousands of years. Let's face it, if we created a council today to make a book that people would still be talking about in ten years, nobody would remember it after five. The success of the Bible was the product of a stroke of luck and millenia of human history.

---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

Huh. Apparently the idea that the First Council of Nicea was responsible for determining which books to include in the Bible is a misconception. They actually had nothing to do with it and the canon didn't get nailed down until the 17th century. Learn something new every day ...

[Murphie]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Let's just say the committee that decided on what books would be included in the bible.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I suppose in a political sense, you can call me Atheist. I don't believe in a god, I don't believe in a higher power, I don't believe in having a soul, I'm not spiritual in any way shape or form. My own personal theory is that having a religion is the cause to humanities problems. Everyone needs or wants an answer to something that no one can accurately explain, which in the end causes more problems.

I disagree heavily, but this is your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, concerning what you're about to say . . .

Whoever created the bible was one creative mofo, I give him props for making billions and billions of people long after he was dead believe in something, they have no clue about.

[Malacite]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

All that aside, I do read up on other religions, deities and such, as it often has relevance to my hobbies. Religions have touched and formed lots of parts of our cultures, from music, art, theater and even math and science. I think its important to know something of them and foolish to pan it all as something we should do away with.

Same, I often enjoy reading about other religions if nothing else just to get a different perspective and understanding. My Dad is Jewish & my mother is French Catholic so I have a decent understanding of those views.

I'm not against religion, per se, just what others often do with it - that is, using it as an excuse to justify otherwise what would be widely condemned morally such as the crusades, Islamic terrorism etc etc. It's rather sad really, because there have been many positive contributions to society because of Religion - but it only takes 1 bad apple.

[odjnlinus]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I suppose in a political sense, you can call me Atheist. I don't believe in a god, I don't believe in a higher power, I don't believe in having a soul, I'm not spiritual in any way shape or form. My own personal theory is that having a religion is the cause to humanities problems. Everyone needs or wants an answer to something that no one can accurately explain, which in the end causes more problems.

Whoever created the bible was one creative mofo, I give him props for making billions and billions of people long after he was dead believe in something, they have no clue about.

What I do believe in, is Man's own power to do what he wants, if you want to run for president then run for it, if you want to fly a plane, then fly one, if you want to get into some really crazy college, then study for it. Don't waste hours and hours of your life every year your alive praying it happens, work with your own power, study what you need to study, learn what you need to learn, and make it happen.

I can go on and on about this but that's a cliffnote's version.

[ShadowIX]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I believe in me, Dauntless.

[Murphie]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Humanist.

[Raydeus]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

You will all be judged by Gary.

[Ketaru]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I don't go around parading what I believe, I just approach others how I'd want to be treated and that's pretty much that. I'm not uncomfortable with people with different lives and viewpoints and don't lose sleep over those differences. I only have a problem when people start getting snotty or start imposing what other should believe about something.

That's really all there is to it. I think people can accept religion on their own terms. Some feel that it is God's calling to spread the word. But I think, in most cases, people who genuinely believe come to do so from a experience they had that they believe to have been spiritual in nature.

I don't think any amount of goading and encouragement from an outside source is going to make somebody believe more.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I have my faith and that's pretty much that. I did initially get pulled in by what I thought was a fire-and-brimstone sermon, but I was just a stressed little boy looking to belong somewhere at the time. The preacher was not really the fire-and-brimstone type, I was just too young to look beyond the theatrics at his bigger point which was not "you're going to hell if you don't believe."

But as I grew up and learned from others and had various big problems thrown at me, I feel I came to an understanding of what God was really about through my friends in high school.

Over time I've found I don't like most churches I visit, particularly the ones that seem terribly concerned about getting people out of church in a timely fashion. I live down the street from the massive church I grew up with. Its nice for its track and fitness areas, but I don't visit for much else. My parents have tried to get me to go back, as has my sister, but a church running like a well-oiled machine just has felt fake to me ever since college.

There was a church that was just about the praise and worship and the sermon was really just a precursor to another praise and worship that happened to be called a "benediction." Sometimes we got out at 12 sometimes 2 or 3pm. It was the short of church that would make the old ladies at my old church mad because they didn't get out to go the K&W in a timely fashion.

Of course, this particular church was run by preacher that used to be in a rock band, so that might have had a lot to do with it. I liked it though.

I don't go around parading what I believe, I just approach others how I'd want to be treated and that's pretty much that. I'm not uncomfortable with people with different lives and viewpoints and don't lose sleep over those differences. I only have a problem when people start getting snotty or start imposing what other should believe about something.

We used to have this old coot of a preacher come to our college campus and it was all he'd ever do was tell people they were going to hell for any reason he could dream up. Guys with long hair, women wearing pants, people with beards. Kinda makes you wonder what he'd say to Jesus, considering he likely had long hair, didn't wear pants, but did wear a robe, and had a beard. At least, I'm just going by the mock-ups we have, mind you.

Best part of that was this timid young girl approaching him and saying "Sir, you make me embarrassed to be a Christian" There was an applause in the court for that.

Then there was the Atheist with a Bible pretty much countering everything the preacher said with scripture and showing the preacher to be a terrible Christian more than making a case for Atheism.

Best. Atheist. Ever. By the way.

All that aside, I do read up on other religions, deities and such, as it often has relevance to my hobbies. Religions have touched and formed lots of parts of our cultures, from music, art, theater and even math and science. I think its important to know something of them and foolish to pan it all as something we should do away with.

Mostly because if we didn't have it, we wouldn't really have that much.

[Malacite]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

But.. but BASHING!!!



Nah but seriously though I'm agnostic. I don't believe in any religions because I view them as man-made explanations, most created thousands of years ago when man didn't know what a germ or an atom was (to paraphrase Bill Maher). And with no hard evidence that can be felt with any of my senses, well it's rather hard to believe. Besides that a lot of religions were either created from a mixing of traiditons from older religions, or have fundamental misunderstandings of their own faith (Christianity for example - Jews know more about it than Christians do.)


However, there are some things you just can't explain. Call it luck, chance, or whatever you like but it just feels at times as though there is some higher power at work. People too, are so radically different from one another that I'm not so sure that's only because of differences in our bio-chemical makeup - I do think there is such a thing as a soul, and consider myself to be fairly spiritual. I just have a more realistic grounding and prefer to put my faith more in science with most things.


But until science can explain with absolute, 100% certainty how the universe came to be (along with other mysteries of the universe) and provide definitive proof that there is no God etc. etc. then I'll remain agnostic. It just feels like the only logical middle-ground since neither "side" can wholly discredit the other.

[Ketaru]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I am a monist, meaning that I believe everything that happens in the world, including human consciousness and inner experience is explainable by physical laws as opposed to some kind of transcendent, invisible property that inhabits certain objects that survives their destruction. I used to believe in such things, but as I learned more about the physical analogues of emotions and memories and personality in our nervous and endocrine systems, the construct of a soul became unnecessary to a model of how humans act the way they do and experience what they do, so I cut that belief away with Occam's Razor. That's not to say there isn't still much we don't understand or that things we would label as "magical" are impossible, after all much that we can do today would have seemed like sorcery to our great-grandparents, but I believe such things are discoverable and explainable, and that their explanations will lie in the physical world rather than a parallel spiritual one.

That pretty much sums up my view of the world.

I was raised in a Buddhist family but went to school primarily with Christian peers. I don't think religious people are illogical because I think people who are religious use their religion as a frame to understand the world, else it would seem illogical to them. But that frame they use only makes the world seem illogical when I use it. I think every event that is thought to be a miracle has a scientific, logical rationale behind it. As many of you also know, there is also a personal characteristic of me that is very divisive when looked at from a religious angle. For that reason alone, many of the things religious people say about the issue don't seem to ring true to my life. And for that alone, I have very good reason to question the religion.

People are even taught to guard themselves from false prophets. But that so many religions in the world exist (some existing long before Christianity) only lends to the fact that nobody can really know. I mean, maybe the Ancient Greeks were right all along! This is probably the biggest reason it's difficult for me to accept religion.

There's a lot of weather related disasters making headlines as of late. Some may think this is all a test and a warning to our country to turn back to traditional roots. Alternatively, however, I could just easily say this is the product of man-made climate change. Some people talk about God's love and his test for us in this lifetime. But no loving God would do this. And nothing could convince me that such disasters are ultimately a good thing. Heck, we're finding out this universe is bigger than we know and, when you think about it, our problems don't amount to anything in the grand scheme of things. In a sort of twisted way, that's actually kind of comforting to know.

I know it seems like I'm picking on Christiniaty in this post, but the fact is it is the dominant religion in this country. A family friend tried to convert me to Christianity. I could've told her that I feel God's love every day and that I believe Christ died for my sins. But I would've been lying. She told my father, as he was dying from cancer, that if he does not accept God, he will go to hell. My dad worked 8 shifts every week and went years without a vacation. He worked over night and did his best for me and our family. He was loved by everybody we knew. That somebody like him could be spending the rest of eternity in hell isn't just not logical. It is just not right.

I go to work every day and feel that I make a positive impact on the people I serve. I go home after a hard day and look in the mirror and say to myself that I did my best and did not do anything to intentionally harm another person. To me, that ought to be all we ask of anybody.

NO BASHING. You don't believe it, say that. You disagree, say that. You think it's stupid? DON'T SAY THAT.

Honestly, I really doubt we'll see this on this forum. If you want to look for bashing and outright disrespect, you'd be better off on, say, Allakhazam.

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

/sigh and "make be wince" but neither one got highlighted by spellcheck, naturally.

[Armando]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Grain?