What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

[Armando]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I maintain a strictly agnostic point of view in that regard: as a human being I can't presume that I felt God any time or anywhere. Whatever God feels like is most likely behind human senses (sort of in the same way that we can only see a small section of the electromagnetic spectrum, hear a limited range of frequencies, etc.) I wouldn't rule out that meeting God would feel like that but on major steroids though.

To me saying "I felt God in that place" makes no sense though. Taking the Christian point of view, God is everywhere. If he's not, I don't think he's going to take interest in me and make a guest appearance either.

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I have never seen a person die, but I hope I get to before it's my turn. Not because of any morbid curiosity or disillusion about the moment, just because if I miss that I think I'll have missed out on an important part of the human experience. It'd be like leaving the world without ever feeling heartbreak. If you missed out on something that poignant and powerful, did you live a full life?

I have a response I want to make to Ketaru's last post, but the text file where I've been working out my thoughts is elsewhere. >_>

Just to get some discussion rolling, I have a question for those in the room that believe in a personal God. What does God feel like? In natural environments I've sometimes had the sense that a place was alive in an almost personifiable way—like it had a spirit. I know some artistic people with more urban affinity than me say the same thing about cities or buildings—that they have a soul. I'm also aware of the lingering feeling of presence after a person or animal dies. So when religious people sometimes say things like "I could feel God in that place" or "I felt God was with me" or "I knew God was watching me," I feel like I have a general idea of what they mean, but even when I identified myself as Catholic, I never had a feeling that made me think any of those things. Is that something you experience and can you describe it?

---------- Post added at 04:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 AM ----------

On "how can evil co-exist with a loving God," I simply defer to the argument that it comes with the abuse of free will, and that God went with the least of all evils in this regard.

YM, I kindof get what you're doing by keeping it all in one post, but it does make your continued contributions to the thread hard to notice. I wouldn't have read this addition if I wasn't bored poking through profiles and saw you modifying the post. To your point, what do you say to causes of suffering that have little connection to free will, such as natural disaster and disease?

[Satori]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I'm sorry I wasnt trying to say that body being lighter is proof of a soul. I was just throwing it in there because the body is lighter. When I'm preparing a body for the mortuary I find mobilising the body a simple task and times where I'd need assistance in life once t hey are deceased it's as simple as flipping a couch cussion.

I do believe we have a soul or spirit though. I experience alot of death in my job. I think most medical professionals have a sense for death I always say I can "smell" it. After losing a patient there's a lingering sensation throughout the atmosphere. It's kind of hard to explain to those that havent experienced it or death in general. But if you'd expeienced it yourself you'd understand.
I wish I could write it off and say it was inexperience and I'll get used to losing patients. But I'm a pretty decent nurse and been nursing for almost decade so I'd guess I'm used to it by now.

My apologies if my post had confused you. I wasnt trying to imply evidence of a soul. Just point out that something I had observed leads me to believe in some kind of "cosmic / spiritual" force/entity.

I like to t hink of myself as a man of science and reasoning but the soul weight thing and the feeling myself and colleagues experience when around death makes me lean slightly to a more spiritual belief.

Where before my training I would have said there was 2 sides. fact and fantasy but sometimes I think there's a little fact in the fantasy somewhere and the black adn white merge a little to become grey.

I love topics like this with you guys. I've learnt quite alot so far. I'd love it if you all drank down my local pub I'd chat the ears off you lol.

[Malacite]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Must... resist... south park video...


Actually it's interesting to note that some of the most successful companies (all in the top 10 I think) in the U.S. (about 5 of them, need to double check the numbers again) are run/have been run by Mormons. And then you got guys like Ken Jennings

[silentsteel]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Ok, I really want to join this thread, but it's really late and i need to get to sleep instead of posting the huge wall of text that I'm going to after finishing reading the whole thread cause I haven't yet. (it is really intriguing though. ^^)
Sufficent to say for now before I go to bed is that I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints or known by most people as Mormon.

P.s. It's hard to type on an iPad =( lol.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Holy walls of text Batman!

I'll try to keep this brief and to the point.

I was raised Catholic but over the years began to realize that I never really found the religion for myself and was just going through the motions. I agree with a number of the values Christianity teaches, but you don't really need religion to be a good person.

There may or may not be a God out there. On the other hand I get the distinct feeling at certain times in my life that the Universe at large is fucking with my head. Other times I get the distinct feeling that the Universe is looking out for me.

What I can't stand are people who use their religion to justify being an asshole.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I actually went to college to study Religion. How I ended up working Operations for a major airline is anyone's guess.

I studied world religion, mythology, philosophy and medieval history. My original goal was to become a Protestant Minister. Those goals got put on hold for a number of reasons... but not for a second because I had any doubts. I study and practice a unique take on the Congregationalist method.

Answer to Question 1) Yes... Ministers can get married
Answer to Question 2) Yes... this means they have no reason to touch little boys
Answer to Question 3) No... I have never touched a little boy
Answer to Question 4) Well yeah... I guess I have... but never in a sexual way
Answer to Question 5) Yes... I'm awsome

[DakAttack]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

I'm a Taoist, if anything. I believe in the flow, but mostly as a biological mechanism. Though I've encountered it on numerous occasions, it's elusive and I feel there's a lot more behind it that I can't access. It feels like a door in the back of my mind that will never open under observation.

I believe life works in cycles, and I hope there's something more to it behind the scenes.

[Taskmage]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

The body does actually lose weight a few minutes after death something odd like 10lbs I have no idea why that is but it's not gas escaping or "voiding of the bowels" like they say in family guy lol because that happens in a case by case basis. Some bodies I've prepared have errupted others are just still and peaceful.

I don't know if I should be saying this in the context of this thread, since the idea here was for people to share their beliefs and not disabuse others of theirs, but this particular tidbit is essentially an urban legend that grew out of a set of tests in the early 1900s that had pretty poor scientific hygiene and weren't conclusive by any reasonable standard. The snopes article is fairly detailed: snopes.com: Weight of the Soul

It would be impossible for me to disprove the existence of a soul to you even if I wanted to; I'm just saying the 21 grams theory is not good evidence for it.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)



Sums up my view of the bible.

[Firewind]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Couple of other Bible facts:

Up until the invention of the printing press, and some time after that until Martin Luther then Henry VIII of England came around and told the Catholic Church where to stick it, translating the bible into your own language was considered heresy after the early 12th century.

The King James Bible is actually the third official English bible (though there have been many attempts at doing it from the 5th century onwards) and while it was commissioned in the early 17th century by James I of England (who was also James VI of Scotland which is what lead to England and Scotland being united and not some bloody conquest like your average idiot wants you to believe), it STILL didn't have an authorised or standardised version until just before the time of the American Revolution.

The KJB also isn't technically the official "Protestant Bible" (for lack of a better term) due to Puritanism having a massive influence on what went into it and how things were translated. In effect it's more like the "Official Puritan Bible" (again for lack of a better term).

Also related to the first point, changing the wording of the bible was considered heresy and that was used to justify banning translations of the bible by canon law. It basically caused a period from the early 12th century up until the 17th-18th century where the vast majority of priests could not even read the bible (obviously priests not being able to read the bible had been going on for much longer but it was during this period where it was most problematic).

[Malacite]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Huh. Apparently the idea that the First Council of Nicea was responsible for determining which books to include in the Bible is a misconception. They actually had nothing to do with it and the canon didn't get nailed down until the 17th century. Learn something new every day ...

Another interesting tidbit is that for centuries the Church didn't allow any public ownership of the Bible.

[Satori]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

When it comes to religion I'm still unsure.
I was christened under the church of England but I'm from a fairly non religious family. I guess I was christened mainly because it was the thing most people do. I was never dragged to church weekly or had it forced upon me. While growing up I mainly only went to church for christenings, weddings and funerals.
When I was about 10 I had an interest in christianity and went to the typical childrens groups and to be honest it freaked me the hell out. I remember having to stand in front of everyone with my eyes closed whilst a ginger bearded guy pressed his hand firmly on my forehead until I fell backwards and was caught by people behind me and was then told I had surrendered myself to the lord.
My parents never let me return after that and to be honest I don't blame them.

The group was run by the parents of some of my classmates. Strangely they were good friends until I came out then it was as if I was satan himself. Oddly the Bible's teachings must have mentioned it didnt apply to them as most of them got involved with drugs, Theft and got knocked up while still in school and unmaried. But I was the bad one apparently because I was gay and apparently it was unforgiveable. Yet peadophiles murderers and rapists god was apparently cool with.
When I was 12 I came home from school to find my grandmother dead on the floor. Which turned me away from christianity, I believed nobody that was meant to love me would put me through that. So I decided to believe a more spiritual force was at work and the beauty of nature. (I'm no hippy)

As I've got older I have realised many religions have themes/characters that crop up somewhere accross the board which leads me to believe.

We're all going to the same place but the way we get there differs, some take the car / bike/ walk / skateboard but we all head to the same place.

I think of the religious texts as a collection of stories much like Aesops fables, Each story giving us guidance on how to behave and be good people in society.
Back then life expectancy and medicine wasn't the best so the man not lying with another man was thrown in there to encourage breeding.

Through time each religion has twisted bits and peices to fit it's societies need. Take Henry 8th for example. So now it's become like a big game of chinese whispers.

I discredit most stories from the bible because science has provided us with so many answers. The evolution of man, Dinosaurs, Our understanding of particles and the big bang theory and the formation of our planet took slightly longer than 7 days. lol.

I do personally believe in balance, Good things happen - Bad things happen.
I believe we have a spirit when a patient dies we are required to open a window for some time to free it. It sounds strange even to myself but sometimes you can feel it.
The body does actually lose weight a few minutes after death something odd like 10lbs I have no idea why that is but it's not gas escaping or "voiding of the bowels" like they say in family guy lol because that happens in a case by case basis. Some bodies I've prepared have errupted others are just still and peaceful.

As a nurse I've seen many things to make me think there absolutely has to be no god of any sort. I've seen children die or abused in the worst possible ways and on the other hand I myself have had to bring murderers, rapists, abusers back from the brink of death or to see them escape from what they did with barely a scratch on them.

The recent Tsunami's, Sept 11th, the 7/7 bombings lead me to believe that nobody is watching us. How somebody that apparently loves us all would see so many of us suffer at the hands of so few is beyond my understanding and if there was a divine being. I'd believe our actions have led to them turning their back on us of themselves are a malevolent force that gains some pleasure from our suffering. Maybe it is something we have deserved twisting the words/orders of the divine to our own will.

Either way I don't bash people for what they believe and when my time comes to answer for not believing as strongly. I'll gladly give my reasons after all I'm meant to be forgiven.

Maybe I'll be condemmed for saving lives. Technically I've been playing god.
Maybe I'd be seen like Jesus, Healing people and sleeping with a big group of men
I grew my hair in my teens too.

But as I said before

We're all heading to the same place. How we get there is up to us.

[Feba]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

Now, I don't think we have it in us to even build anything like the Twin Towers anymore.

Someone hasn't heard of the Burj Khalifa.


Or, you know. Asia.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What do you believe? (RELIGION THREAD. **NO BASHING**)

The Internet? I mean, okay, we didn't make it, but this big thing really came out in our generation, for the most part.

And as an aside, thanks everyone for posting in this thread, honestly, reading what you guys have to say on the subject has been very fascinating and while I don't agree with all of you, I'm glad that we're able to converse on matters like this with open minds.