The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

[Mhurron]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

You keep going on about Fencer, but seriously, its not that much of a big deal. Most time, if a RDM has a sword in one hand, they have one in the other too, Fencer won't do anything for them.

[Firewind]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

Dude. White Mages are better than freaking Red Mages now. Seriously!

And in light of that, I literally cannot ask for anything else for my job other than Fencer, if S-E ever stops being such a tease about it. And then I'll be like "JOB IS COMPLETE GUYS, CARRY ON. MAYBE ENSPELLS III FOR OUR LEVEL 99 MERITS, BUT SERIOUSLY: WE'RE COOL NOW."

I mean, if you were complaining about Scholar maybe, but I know personally know that if I were looking for somebody specifically to heal, and I saw a WHM and a SCH, I'd still pick the WHM every day of the week. And I'm nowhere near the only one with that opinion. (. . . now, if I were looking for a nuker between a BLM and a SCH, and both were strangers to me, I'd probably bias towards the Scholar just for having native White Magic options, but that's just me. >.> )

You would pick a WHM over RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM in a main healer slot? Sure on Paper WHM/RDM sounds great but have you any idea what utility a main healer is missing by not having access to SCH and RDM job abilities at the same time?

Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to be awkward, I'm really not, but I'm just not seeing it. Nor do I see any 85 WHMs running around when I log onto the game.

Oh I did miss Regen IV, HoTs are always nice to have but having four versions of the same HoT? I'm not saying it's bad but there's nothing that really changes what you already do

[Karinya]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

Supposedly, one can store multiple pieces for each slip (as in you can store EVERY PIECE that slip allows at the same time, if so desire), but I ran off to key item farming with LS before I had a chance to try it.

Yes. I have about 20 pieces of AF stored on one storage slip. Then I put the storage slip in my mog satchel so I have instant access to any of those 20 pieces at any porter moogle (which used to be in furniture in my MH, requiring a trip back to Windy if for some reason I ever wanted them). All my unupgraded empyrean (which is basically only good for show) is on another slip. Etc.

And you don't have to pay to put items in or take them out -- only once to buy the slip.

Porter moogles are so useful, we hardly even needed the sack at the same time (not that I'm complaining).


Also, something I find really interesting is the amount of changes to level 75 endgame like salvage, einherjar and even sky. Does that mean SE expects players to continue those activities at 99? And if so, why would they expect that?

Interestingly, a number of players I know of (including me) were talking about throwing away some of our old, no-longer-useful level 75ish rare/ex gear... until it was announced that we could store it all instead. I wonder if SE plans to do something with that gear and that's *why* they introduced a way to keep players from throwing it away just to find out later that they would have been better off keeping it?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

You keep going on about Fencer, but seriously, its not that much of a big deal. Most time, if a RDM has a sword in one hand, they have one in the other too, Fencer won't do anything for them.

Actually, it should be Dagger main and Sword in sub now in Abyssea, wouldn't it? Evisceration with Razed Ruins should work better than any other WS if using Dual Wield.

Even outside of Abyssea Evisceration should be a strong contender for DW use; need something like /WAR or /DRK or /BLU or /PLD for Vorpal Blade.

* * *

You would pick a WHM over RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM in a main healer slot? Sure on Paper WHM/RDM sounds great but have you any idea what utility a main healer is missing by not having access to SCH and RDM job abilities at the same time?

Um. My LS prefers to have WHM + RDM for the back line, but when we can't field both, we pick WHM. (Except Salvage, but that's because we are really short on people for that event and I'm forced to go RDM since sleep/bind/gravity/bio are useful and we want the g.horn BRD to stay on BRD.)

Been like that for two months plus now?

By the way, RDM/SCH is awkward to use, since I can't bar-ra people, and the Stratagem timer are bad enough that I'm wary of using up Stratagems for Phalanx, negating the one way SCH/RDM can provide better damage mitigation than WHM/SCH. Always have to keep in mind rebuff for Protect V and Shell IV, too--another thing to save Stratagems for.

Heck, if I have to switch to Dark Arts for anything, I'd have to save a charge for Addendum: White as well for when I switch back to Light Arts; it's really annoying when RDM/SCH had only two charges on long recharge timers.

Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to be awkward, I'm really not, but I'm just not seeing it. Nor do I see any 85 WHMs running around when I log onto the game.

Part of it is that you don't need as many healers as before; just need a few good WHMs to keep people alive these days.

The other part of it is probably because you don't believe there are WHMs--people tend to only see what they believe, and mentally filter out things which don't fit their (pre)conceptions.

Just think about this for a sec: no other job can rotate Cure V and Cure VI back and forth--no other jobs even have those spells (yet). In Abyssea, people can have 3000+ HP with the right Atma, and many monsters have TP moves that can take off 1.8k+ HP just like that. Cure IV alone isn't fast enough due to the recast timer, and the Cure III/IV rotation can't come close to matching the Cure V/VI rotation.

You need two RDMs or SCHs to match what one WHM can do when cure dumping is needed--and, depending on what you fight, cure dumping can be absolutely essential.

(By the way, I'm RDM85 and SCH85, and it's pretty clear I can't match a decent WHM85 on either job when it comes to pumping cures.)

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

Also, something I find really interesting is the amount of changes to level 75 endgame like salvage, einherjar and even sky. Does that mean SE expects players to continue those activities at 99? And if so, why would they expect that?

I don't know. lol.

I do know that I still do Salvage, and until last week did Sky with another LS. (I may go back to Sky for a few people in my main/social LS who still want Sky gear, though.)

By the way, I'm eyeing Einherjar for the Atma. (I like collecting Atmas, for some reason.)

Interestingly, a number of players I know of (including me) were talking about throwing away some of our old, no-longer-useful level 75ish rare/ex gear... until it was announced that we could store it all instead. I wonder if SE plans to do something with that gear and that's *why* they introduced a way to keep players from throwing it away just to find out later that they would have been better off keeping it?

It's possible. The ToM's design makes it not very costly to implement upgrade path for any item (compared to say, Relic weapons), so it would be in keeping with the spirit of not making old high end gear all completely obsolete as SE stated in that last Vana'fest or whatever it was in Japan.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if SE slow down on the upgrades and start working on game balance a bit. It'd be depressing if PLD's position in game stays like this. We need to pound the Karinya mantra into the devs' heads: Make the monsters more of a threat to make the game more interesting! (Well, that's my paraphrase of it anyway.)

[KingOfZeal]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

I managed to play around with the Porter a little bit, and it seems to be FAR superior to regular storage NPCs:

You can store the entire set, store 7 pieces at once (given they can go on the same ticket) and can retrieve individual pieces, which is nice for the older sets that you still use for macro pieces (I'm looking at you, PUP AF hands). The only thing I may have a problem with is that it does take a bit longer to retrieve what you want, since you can only get them one at a time. SE seems to have countered this by setting your cursor to the same place it was when you got an armor, so you don't have to scroll through the entire list. There's also having to figure out what ticket you want to use instead of straight up key items, but that's probably acceptable.

Personally, I'm going to keep the full sets I don't use often or I don't need pieces from in traditional storage just so I don't have to deal with having all that gear in the list when I need to grab something.

[Malacite]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

You would pick a WHM over RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM in a main healer slot? Sure on Paper WHM/RDM sounds great but have you any idea what utility a main healer is missing by not having access to SCH and RDM job abilities at the same time?

Every time. Stop crying over WHM already, shit's getting old. WHM > RDM no contest when it comes to Abyssea, and the way things are trending, outside of it too. RDM's only real edge over WHM was it's grossly lopsided MP efficiency, which at least in Abyssea is completely negated. WHM's super healing and protective magic trump RDM big time. In fact, now that RDM has Tier 4's they're way better off nuking or even meleeing if you have Chant, Razed Ruins & Voracious Violet (even Vorpal puts up pretty good numbers now).

In fact, for the 1st time RDM is probably more free than it's ever been to multi-task and perform whatever role is needed most at the time. Really the only jobs that are up shit-creek without a paddle at the moment, and have a legitimate right to bitch, piss & moan @ SE are PLD & DRK because they're fucking useless right now. Sorry but it's true. The extra security a PLD offers isn't necessary, though it can be helpful with PUGs as a lot of people still don't know wtf they're doing in Abyssea (explaining how to proc !! to people is honestly getting on my nerves at this point, we're into the 3rd and final add-on ppl should understand the basics of Abyssea by now) and well... DRK is just so horribly outclassed by every other DD it's sad. This is due in large part to a lack of a good critical WS though, and if SE would just change Liberator or Guillotine to a crit mod DRK would be golden. But as it stands, virtually ever other DD can out perform DRK very easily and in many cases with better survivability.

But then again, barring retards, dieing should be the least of your worries with WHM having Cure 6 and infinite MP.


As a career SAM I am royally pissed off at SE for the colossal fuck up that is our AF3, especially the hands (Who even subs RNG anymore?) but all things considered SAM has had it so good for so long it's not fair. MNK at least, after years and years of nothing is just being showered with goodies. NIN DD is no longer mocked, and actually encouraged now especially post update. BG reporting some people breaking 2k with San spells and Futae which is just sexy.

[Karinya]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

@Mal: Haijin much? Atmas from high tier NMs and fucking empyreans don't exactly grow on trees, you know. (Well, unless one of the NMs that drops them is a treant. I wouldn't know; I haven't had a linkshell with double-digit population since FFXIV came out.)

Personally, I wouldn't mind if SE slow down on the upgrades and start working on game balance a bit. It'd be depressing if PLD's position in game stays like this. We need to pound the Karinya mantra into the devs' heads: Make the monsters more of a threat to make the game more interesting!

Well, I'm glad to see someone agrees with what I've been saying since ToAU (which had a lot of cool stuff, but ultimately was a balance disaster). But it seems to me that SE has made a deliberate decision to split the game into different types of content: exping on mooks, where the mobs are if anything proportionately *weaker* than the targets of ToAU-era meleeburns, and NMs, (some of) which are dangerous enough that you might need a tank and real tactics. (I'm sad about the death of crowd control, though. Some of the most interesting level 75 content forced you to deal with lots of dangerous mobs at once, but so far in post-75 crowd control is either unnecessary (pop nms that you pop one at a time, or the uber weakness of abyssea exp mobs) or impossible (WoE where everything is immune). That diminishes the game, IMO. And I'm not just saying that because I play 3 CC-capable jobs. XD)

I'll also be interested to see what SE has in mind for *after* abyssea. Atmas are a fun power trip when you have them, but there's already some post-75 content where they don't work (i.e. WoE) and if SE is really done making abyssea, then post-90 HNMs will have to be fought without atma, +50 to all stats, and +60% hp/mp (or is it more now?). Of course people can still level in super-easymode abyssea, but there's more to the game than leveling. Level 99 players without atma and cruor buffs may well not be more powerful than (or even as powerful as) level 90s with those buffs, so the mobs might not even need to be that much stronger, just located somewhere else. XD

5 levels every 3 months is a pretty wild ride, but if SE has any kind of long-term plan, we could be at 99 for another 5 years (or even longer), potentially with a variety of level 99 content that's as great as the variety of level 75 content we're now racing away from. MMOs can be incredibly long-lived once players get attached to their characters; I think EQ1 is still running, and it's several years older than FFXI. (I don't know if they're still updating it with new content.) When we're all leveling our geomancers in the Far East and trying to bring back Phoenix, who will care about atma anymore? XD

[NightShayde]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

Uh-oh. My husband got the "out of memory" message when trying to do the update on his PS2. His PS2 no longer reads discs, so I'm not sure what we're going to do. Luckily, he also has an XBox360 he plays on.

I hope I don't get the same message on my PS2. Having to do a clean install would totally suck (though at least I think my disc reader still works).

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

I think EQ1 is still running, and it's several years older than FFXI. (I don't know if they're still updating it with new content.)

I heard that they recently got player-owned housing.

Y'know, so they could bring EQ in to 2004.

Sure on Paper WHM/RDM sounds great but have you any idea what utility a main healer is missing by not having access to SCH and RDM job abilities at the same time?

Right, because Refresh and Ascension work so well for the two mages in the entire party. Or was it the super-powerful combination of Refresh and Sublimation? No, wait, it's the ability to put Stoneskin on other party members, isn't it? (Never mind the fact that not only does Scholar have Stoneskin natively now, but so does a WHM/SCH. Also, there might have been some sort of Afflac Solace or something or other, but it's not like that let you give Stoneskin to your other party members, anyway . . .)

*snaps* No, wait, I got it: the utility that White Mages lack from both SCH and RDM as main healers is surely nuking ability for azure lights. Magic Attack Bonus from RDM, Dark Arts from SCH. Bingo, that's precisely what WHM is missing as a healer right now.

---------- Post added at 01:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------

You keep going on about Fencer, but seriously, its not that much of a big deal. Most time, if a RDM has a sword in one hand, they have one in the other too, Fencer won't do anything for them.

A) Yes, not a big deal. It's more of a "principle of the matter" sort of thing.

B) Shield Mastery isn't exactly doing to do anything for Dual Wielders, either . . .

[MrMageo]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

Actually, it should be Dagger main and Sword in sub now in Abyssea, wouldn't it? Evisceration with Razed Ruins should work better than any other WS if using Dual Wield.

Even outside of Abyssea Evisceration should be a strong contender for DW use; need something like /WAR or /DRK or /BLU or /PLD for Vorpal Blade.

In most cases yes Evisceration would be the best bet. Especially considering the new 40D dagger. Also what is awkward is Joyeuse is still technically our best DPS/TP weapon. Khanda OAT +DMG beats it in DPS and the Khanda 2-3 beats it in TP gain, but for best of both worlds the Joyeuse is still king. (this applies to paladin as well.) Before I ramble off topic.

CDC is currently RDM's strongest WS. I have seen Screenies of up to 4.5K Evisceration can't touch that currently. That being said it requires a few hurdles to jump over.

Furthermore the jobs that offer vorpal blade simply do not provide the DPS bonus of /NIN or the overall utility (and imo better subjob based on its party/ally wide boosting potential) of /DNC. /WAR would be a distant third though (but not because of fencer because of the abilities we already had access to in DA Berserk and Warcry.)

[Ketaru]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

You would pick a WHM over RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM in a main healer slot?

Yes?

I often end up using RDM more for nuking and enfeebling now in Abyssea. Some of the NMs in Abyssea are so damaging now that there is simply no other healer that can compete with WHM. The latter 2 jobs have been mostly relegated to support roles that are also capable of throwing out emergency cures, as they rightfully should be.

[cidbahamut]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

You would pick a WHM over RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM in a main healer slot?

Every time and at every level.

You keep going on about Fencer, but seriously, its not that much of a big deal. Most time, if a RDM has a sword in one hand, they have one in the other too, Fencer won't do anything for them.

I'll put it as simply as possible.
RDM = Fencer(conceptually)
Change the ability's name and all is resolved.

[Romyro]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

Little more on Dominion if anyone cares.

Not sure how in-depth it goes but me and buddy did Ops 9 & 13 in Aby-Ul (worms & buffalo). Both mobs types were close to the NPC. Works just like FoV but less amount to kill (need 5) and it can be spammed. Just did op after op.

I think depending on how many are doing the Ops XP will vary. The more people doing them, the harder the mobs get and yet bigger reward. On Buffalo when we were duoing we got about 3200xp per OP (mobs were VT-IT at 86). Once we picked up 2 more, ops went as high as 4400xp. Dominon (the currency) works like FoV tabs (10%).

Got roughly 45-55k xp in the ~100 minutes we were there. Certainly not abyssea alliance style xp but not bad at all for a 2-4 man party, VERY NICE side reward for trying to get seals. We were 2 Bst and eventually picked up a Smn and some lolNin (you may know him).

I read rumors that you can get a seal once a day (random). Which in our experience…was true. I overall got 3 seals total (Whm body, Thf body (think it was body) on buffalo and Pup hands on worms)

Finished up with just under 4000 dominion and picked up BST body (cost 1500). I warped out but my buddy was looking at other options and somehow spent dominion on a augmented h2h item. Augments stats were not very good…here’s to hoping their better then FoV Elite Pages.

-Abyssea lights-Not sure if they are changed in the Hero areas but it was very odd. As 2 Bsts killing worms we got 1 azure light from a red chest (maaaaybe 2). Got a couple Blue chests with 750xp in them. Thought that was kinda odd since we cant build Azure other than with red chests.

[Gyotsha]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

I'll put it as simply as possible.
RDM = Fencer(conceptually)
Change the ability's name and all is resolved.

Perhaps they meant fencer as someone who builds fences. Kind of like how a shrubber makes shrubberies.

Just think of it that way and it's all good!

[Malacite]

Re: The Version Update Is Here! (12/07/2010)

Perhaps they meant fencer as someone who builds fences. Kind of like how a shrubber makes shrubberies.

Ni!!!