The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

after all, BLU has A+ in it,

Minor correction: it's actually A-. Paladin is the A+ Sword job.

But then, a DD-oriented PLD doesn't get much respect, either. They seem to get an approving nod, but not much else.

Devil's advocate: Paladins tend to have so-flipping-many ways to improve their defenses and lock in their hate, that generally, they have a crapload of room left to invest in to their damage potential (which also helps with tanking, as it so happens). Which has always been really great and anybody that ever said otherwise was a fool, but still.

In all honesty, S-E may have been better off doing to Red Mages what they have done to Paladins: give them so many tools to make them so good at what they do (Paladins:defending themselves and their party::Red Mages:landing crippling magic) that focusing on damage is no longer a cost; instead, not focusing on damage becomes the cost. Elemental Staves, in this scenario, would be as excessive as, say, the Adaman Cuirass Set (for lack of a better example off the top of my head).

[BurningPanther]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

Here's a thought.

How about giving RDM access to Homam and A- Sword (At least a B+) skill the same as BLU, since the jobs are pretty much opposite sides of the same coin.


Just a thought.

RDM should have had Homam access from it's release. You don't say "Jack of All Trades" and then halve a job's gear selection, limiting it almost solely to the magical. At present, BLU does a better job at being a generalist than RDM does.

A/A+ Sword skill would not be nearly as bad as many people like to imply. RDM is not going to start hitting like a Great Axe WAR simply because of it(after all, BLU has A- in it, and it's not like they're known for burgeoning sword damage), and the Acc provided with the bump in tier would make a much bigger difference than the increased damage.

You mean like Dnc? The job that *relies* on meleeing to enfeeble and support the pt? The Job that despite having better melee stats then Rdm in almost every way possible is still considered "useless" in any "serious" situation by the same people who don't want Rdms meleeing?

Regardless of whether or not big-time DDs take DNC melee seriously, it's still there, and still wired into the job. I dare you to deny a DNC an invite because you don't want them meleeing.

But then, a DD-oriented PLD doesn't get much respect, either. They seem to get an approving nod, but not much else.

Applying the same to RDM won't make it a suddenly welcome damage dealer. First, no one's expecting it to, and second, anyone resolved not to appreciate extra damage coming from a non-DD is simply not going to do so. But, in the end, the mechanic will still be there, and it will still be functional.




Barring that, if stubborn DDs(and stubborn "backline or GTFO" mages), are still intent on not giving it a try, jilted RDMs can simply pack up their bag of tricks, take that improved frontline ability, and simply group with each other. WHMs too. It's not like these two jobs can't take care of themselves, imagine what could happen if their damage improved.

[Armando]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

The bulk of BLU's damage comes from physical spells.

Argue semantics all you want, you call them spells, I call them WS's with MP costs. At the end of the day the mob's still taking large amounts of slashing/piercing/blunt damage from within melee range.

[Ziero]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

You mean like Dnc? The job that *relies* on meleeing to enfeeble and support the pt? The Job that despite having better melee stats then Rdm in almost every way possible is still considered "useless" in any "serious" situation by the same people who don't want Rdms meleeing?

Any buffs to Rdm's melee abilities will not be enough to bring Rdm's to the front lines on anything the can't already melee.

[Lmnop]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

...you mean the job where it's MAGIC far outweighs the damage done by it's Melee skills? Blue Mage was built around melee stats affecting it's spells, but it still relies more on it's Spells to be effective then it does it's melee abilities.

Err I think you're contradicting yourself, here.

Blue Mage is, itself, one big trick to bring magic to frontlines. Even if it's damage is entirely (mostly) through spells, it's still doing so in the melee.

Therefore, if RDMs were given a trick that made it so they reliably enfeebled as long as they were attacking with a sword or dagger (afterall, we don't really need more DD), they could still keep their Red Mage name.

Now that I've said that, I read the rest of your post and see you're not entirely against a RDM melee update. I'd have to say a stance would be interesting, but it has to be more than just "weakens your casting to improve melee" because then it's just hitting the "I'm a DRK!!!" JA.

Hopefully S-E has better ideas of what to do than any of us. But I just hope for a change that offers the opportunity to melee, but not manditory (and probably not full time).

[Solymir]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

Yeah, if they allowed you to keep buffs when you synced it would be horribly broken.

It's the buffs that you could use if you were sync'd at that level anyways. Say I cast protect I on myself (doesn't really matter what job/support job combo) and then sync'd to lvl 30. Why should that protect wear off after sync? And my particular gripe in this case was the wasteof the rr scroll, which can be used at any lvl. I should have posted this in the pet peeves thread, but too late now.

[Ziero]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

Are people still doing this?

That whole argument was always bloody silly, and went out the door the day Blue Mage appeared. I bet if a name was all that mattered, Scholar would surprise the hell out of you.

...you mean the job where it's MAGIC far outweighs the damage done by it's Melee skills? Blue Mage was built around melee stats affecting it's spells, but it still relies more on it's Spells to be effective then it does it's melee abilities.

Here's a thought.

How about giving RDM access to Homam and A- Sword (At least a B+) skill the same as BLU, since the jobs are pretty much opposite sides of the same coin.

Both jobs are designed as fighter mages. Blue mage just happened to get the better end of the Fighter stick.

Red Mage is a "Jack of all Trades, Master of None" type class and Blue Mage is a job who relies on Monster based attacks. How are they in any way alike aside from being Hybrid classes that use swords? Red Mages have abilities that allow them to cast a varied amount of spells, just not as good as pure caster classes, and have melee skills that allow them to fight effectively, just not as good as pure melee classes. Blue Mages have spells that have a wide array of modifiers due to the fact that the spells originate from various different sources.

Since most of Blue Mages strongest attacks are based off physical abilities and stats, i.e Str and TP, they have to melee to make these spells work at their strongest. Redmages, however, are so "balanced" that the only way they can really focus on excelling at a single roll is to gear towards that specific roll, in doing so they have to ignore their other abilities. Whether that be gearing for Magic and casting spells or gearing for Melee and using their sword.

Blue Mages and Red Mages are fundimentally, from the ground up, two completely different classes.

Having said that, I'll state that I have nothing against giving Rdm some sort of Melee buff. Especially if it's a "stance" type buff that increases meleeing while reducing casting. But even if they did get that, people still wouldn't want them meleeing anything serious since they're wanted because the spells they have are too good to give up.

You got it wrong, he was talking about items like Reraise scroll which have no level requirement. There's no reason for those to wear off when you sync or enter a lvl capped battle.

Since there's so many buffs with tiers and such, it's just easier to wipe all-or-none when entering a capped event. If it's something like Re-Raise or such, it's easy to just bring the appropriate item (or refresh the buff from FoV) so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Also, as far as those new Caskets go. It's almost a waste as a Thf to use tools on them because all you get is a chance at a hint. And Coffer sickness, causing a coffer to disappear as an "illusion" when you open it is down right dumb. It would be better if you just got the "you can't perform that action" message ala when you have Coffer Curse after a failed pick.

[Raydeus]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

You got it wrong, he was talking about items like Reraise scroll which have no level requirement. There's no reason for those to wear off when you sync or enter a lvl capped battle.

[Aksannyi]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

Yeah, if they allowed you to keep buffs when you synced it would be horribly broken.

[Akashimo]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

Side note: Last night I was duoing with a friend in Qufim, he was about to level and suggested level syncing so the exp wouldn't drop. When I level sync'd us I lost the Reraise I had on from a Reraise scroll. Now, I know SE never said this update would stop buffs from disappearing when level Sync was first applied, only when the person sync'd to leveled up. But would have been so hard for them to change that too?

Yes. Think level 75 SCH aoe stoneskin then pty syncs to 10.

[Solymir]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

It doesn't make sense, though. I'm wielding a fucking sledgehammer. Not only that, I'm the only job in the game who can actually wield sledgehammers. If you're on a battlefield in plate armor facing Yao Ming with a claymore and Verne Troyer with a sledge, worry about Verne. Yao needs a few swings because your armors set up to deal with him. Verne's just gotta connect with your knee once, and not really hard. Now you're kneeling or face down and he can reach your head.

I almost lol'd at work. Thank you for that.

Also, I agree it would be nice if Whm's could do a little more damage while we have Allied Tags. I mean I still get a decent amount of Exp from doing the melee thing in Campaign, but I don't even do half as well as my Pld.


Side note: Last night I was duoing with a friend in Qufim, he was about to level and suggested level syncing so the exp wouldn't drop. When I level sync'd us I lost the Reraise I had on from a Reraise scroll. Now, I know SE never said this update would stop buffs from disappearing when level Sync was first applied, only when the person sync'd to leveled up. But would have been so hard for them to change that too?

[Armando]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

You mean the weather effect kicking in for Reprisal right? Because I'm fairly sure that spell is influenced by MND if anything at all.

Reprisal damage is based on the amount of damage absorbed by the shield block, and the resist rate is in all likelihood determined by Enhancing skill. And yeah, BBQ probably meant the weather effect.

Also, for the sake of perspective: if the melees are getting double March and they have Walahra Turban, WHM's Haste spell (15%) increases their number of attack rounds by 25%.

@Durahansolo: I officially hate your friend now, but at least it gives me a glimmer of hope that it won't take me forever to get them.

[Durahansolo]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

so i went to xarcabard tonight and ran around and got a carapace mask and these...


Gothic Gauntlets RareEx
[Hands] All Races
DEF:12 STR+3 Enmity+2 Physical damage taken: "Ice Spikes" effect Set: Increases Attack and Ranged Attack
LV 43 WAR PLD DRK BST SAM NIN


lol and submitted a pic to ffxiah if they approve it

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=15042

LS friend of mine got em lol. Posted on our LS board today.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

If I ever start soloing on SAM they'd obviously be worthwhile, but I'm pretty much abusing East Ronfaure S till I hit 54-55, and my DNC sub is nowhere near the level it has to be <_<.

[Malacite]

Re: The December Version Update Cometh! (12/09/2008)

The CHR and light weather effect would affect things such as Lullaby and Reprisal accuracy

You mean the weather effect kicking in for Reprisal right? Because I'm fairly sure that spell is influenced by MND if anything at all.

And Marches are better than Haste? While technically true this is not the proper way to look at it;


Try Marches are better with Haste. Honestly you're being far too paranoid and it sounds like you're just not making the effort and using SCH as a scapegoat for your own short comings. Don't blame SE for the stupid shit the community does.