Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

[Malacite]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

It's not SE's call to dictate how much we can play. We have free will for a fucking reason, and if you choose to abuse that then that's your damn problem.

Is a Casino liable for someone with a gambling addiction? The liquor store for someone's alcoholism? etc etc... Yes I know those are all negative examples but my point is still valid. I don't need a freaking nanny telling me to put my game down arbitrarily when I've nothing better to do (or for any reason) just because other people can't commit as much time as me. By that logic we should just do away with overtime pay because it's not fair to those who didn't get the extra money.


And the Beta forums are already in an uproar against it (and many other things). The better question to ask, would be will SE listen to us, or just try to cram their bullshit down our throats and expect us to like it? We don't need parental controls for adults SE.

[Amariu]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

I guess I should rephrase what I was trying to say. I guess it is SE's choice to limit how much you level, not play you make the choice not too play if your not gaining exp or whatever like kailea stated craft switch jobs craft explore.

[jenova_9]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

but what if people just want to level one job and main that and not bother with crafting?

See a company deciding how players should play, is a bad design for an mmorpg because it restricts and limits players options.

And crafting is definitely not one of the things most consider fun, even though it's a part of the mmorpg economy, most prefer being adventurers and do adventure things like the heroes in FF games. Cecil and Rosa didn't need to craft and farm for days to afford stuff. Nothing stopped Firion and friends from grinding anytime and as long as they wanted.

FF5 world didn't prevent Bartz and company from maining one specific job, or forcing switching jobs because they spent too much time leveling one of them and so they have to change jobs or wait until they can level what they want further. >.>

Ya those aren't mmorpgs but SE is treating players like children or some Communist country and that is insulting to their would-be subscribers.

[Kailea]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

And who are you to determine what is too much for someone? Do you do it on a case by case basis? Or do you just make blanket judgments like the one above?

really? your going to pull that? There is a big difference in responsible play, even if its 5 hours a day every day, and someone who is playing nonstop for 5-6 days on end..... that is a problem.

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 AM ----------

but what if people just want to level one job and main that and not bother with crafting?

See a company deciding how players should play, is a bad design for an mmorpg because it restricts and limits players options.

And crafting is definitely not one of the things most consider fun, even though it's a part of the mmorpg economy, most prefer being adventurers and do adventure things like the heroes in FF games. Cecil and Rosa didn't need to craft and farm for days to afford stuff. Nothing stopped Firion and friends from grinding anytime and as long as they wanted.

FF5 world didn't prevent Bartz and company from maining one specific job, or forcing switching jobs because they spent too much time leveling one of them and so they have to change jobs or wait until they can level what they want further. >.>

Ya those aren't mmorpgs but SE is treating players like children or some Communist country and that is insulting to their would-be subscribers.

Level another class then, archer, Conj, something, and if you think you can get by in FFXIV with just leveling one class.....then you will run into problems real fast.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

really? your going to pull that? There is a big difference in responsible play, even if its 5 hours a day every day, and someone who is playing nonstop for 5-6 days on end..... that is a problem.

I'm still waiting for you to justify how you or anyone can determine what the right amount of time is ok for any form of legal entertainment. I guess you wouldn't mind a device put on every tv that limits the amount of time you can use it because you should be out exercising and not being a couch potato. And then a limit device in every MP3 player since listening to loud music for extended periods is bad for your hearing.

Yes, its SE's right to do what they want with their game but the argument here is that this is unprecedented and is not going to work well with the MMORPG community.

[Amariu]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

Once again you are making the decision not to play once you hit a certain hour SE is not logging you. You feel there is no reason to play because there no exp gained.

[Kailea]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

I'm still waiting for you to justify how you or anyone can determine what the right amount of time is ok for any form of legal entertainment. I guess you wouldn't mind a device put on every tv that limits the amount of time you can use it because you should be out exercising and not being a couch potato. And then a limit device in every MP3 player since listening to loud music for extended periods is bad for your hearing.

Yes, its SE's right to do what they want with their game but the argument here is that this is unprecedented and is not going to work well with the MMORPG community.

oh for the love of god.....would you stop with the extremest BS? I am not suggesting any of that. I need to say it again, SE is not limiting you in your playing. This crap started when some stupid testers started to get it in their head and it went from there........

So many people are complaining about somthing they dont even fully understand, and all I am doing is giving ideas of how its not what people think it is, and all you can do is come up with "oh so you think SE should limit us"

god..... here read this......its from Nobuaki Komoto

Surplus explanation

We'd like to thank all the beta testers for their cooperation during the closed beta test. We have received your valuable opinions and feedback and will do our best to incorporate them into the open beta and official release versions of the game.

Now, we have received a lot of questions and opinions from everyone today, and we would like to give you some answers regarding character growth balance in beta phase 3.

First, the concept was to achieve a balance which would allow those with little time to enjoy FFXIV to get more out of their play time, and above that, create a game that does not force you to spend long hours playing it. To that end, we implemented Guardian's Favor, which adds a bonus to Guildleve, and makes it easier to level in shorter amounts of time.

To balance this out, we came up with a hypothesis regarding what amount of skill points and experience one was likely to earn in an hour. Think of this as a rate at which a player can fight battles, do Guildleves or skill-up.

Then, using that supposed amount, we made it so you can earn 8 hours worth of skill points and experience at 100% of this rate. The subsequent 7 hours' worth will gradually see the attainable skill points and experience points fall to 0.

The limitation on thee amount of points you can attain is set on a weekly timer. Once it passes a week since you first began leveling a particular skill, the limitation resets to zero. After it resets, it will come into effect again once you begin work on that skill once more.

Even if you are hit with this limitation during a one-week period, its detrimental effects decrease if you do not level that particular class. You can even recover back to the full 100% rate of point acquisition, so you do not always have to wait the full week for the limitations to go away.

The skill points you do not gain are instead saved as Surplus Points. Each class has its own amount surplus points, so you can try out a new class if surplus points begin appearing in your log window.

However, each class does not have its own amount of experience, so playing a different class will not mitigate the declining experience point rate.

This is the system as currently implemented.

In truth, this system was not just put in during phase 3 of the beta, but has been implemented from the start. However, we have received many opinions saying the system explained above is not what actually appears in phase 3 of the beta. There are several reasons for this.

Around the time of beta phase 3, it became possible to play for longer periods of time, thus increasing the amount one could play in a single week.
In beta phase 3, Guildleves received a boost in skill points and experience points awarded to encourage party play.
The skill points and experience gained from defeating enemy parties as well as weaker single enemies was lowered, though due to a bug, did not take affect initially in beta phase 3. This was fixed during beta phase 3.
The number biggest culprit behind this issue was that last bug, which allowed players to gain more skill points and experience than we expected, causing the limitations to come into effect much quicker. Of course, not adjusting the limitations in accordance with the boost to Guildleve was a problem as well.

The lack of explanation regarding these adjustments was a mistake on our part for which we sincerely apologize.

The numbers behind these limitations are all still under development, and we plan to adjust them according to player feedback in an effort to make them less severe. In particular, we are considering making the decline in points less drastic and are already hard at work on it. Also, as the limit on experience carries over through class changes, we plan to lessen its effect compared with the limit on skill points.

At the very least, we promise players will not be hitting the limit as quickly as they did at the start of beta phase 3.

Also, I would like to address one other thing below:

The reduction in what you acquire from gathering is based on the actions of that particular class and is unrelated to limitations on leveling. We are also in the process of adjusting this and plan to make changes based on player feedback.

Surplus points currently have no use. However, there are opinions saying preparing some kind of reward would be good, but that's just giving people something else to strive for, which misses the whole point of this system. We want to take our time and thoroughly investigate this issue.

Now, the open beta test will include more than just the above adjustments. As we stated before, awarding more skill points for party play is also an important topic we plan to address, so we hope you enjoy testing out what we come up with.

Lastly, as director of this title, I wish to deeply apologize for the lateness of my comments due to my absence while attending Gamescom. In addition, articles written during my trip contained much speculation, outdated information and mistranslations which only invited more confusion. In the future, I will do my best to make direct, official statements in a timely manner. I humbly ask for your understanding regarding this matter.

See you in the open beta!

Final Fantasy XIV Director

Nobuaki Komoto

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

oh for the love of god.....would you stop with the extremest BS? I am not suggesting any of that. I need to say it again, SE is not limiting you in your playing. This crap started when some stupid testers started to get it in their head and it went from there........

So many people are complaining about somthing they dont even fully understand, and all I am doing is giving ideas of how its not what people think it is, and all you can do is come up with "oh so you think SE should limit us"

And again, we are speculating here that they ARE limited your exp time and you are aware we are. Then you jump on the

It still limits those that play every night every day of every week.

thats the problem......you should not be playing that much to begin with.....

side of limiting peoples playtime because for some reason you feel entitled judge people that like to play for long periods of time. Whether or not it is what we are speculating on is not the point, the point is that we are speculating that they WILL be limiting time in some fashion. You feel that it is perfectly fine to do. So do you feel that its ok to put limits on your tv, mp3 player, and whatever else since those can be abused to the point that it endangers your health in some fashion? Or is it just ok to judge geeks that like to plunk themselves down and immerse themselves in an alternate reality?

[abknight]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

Durability is realistic and fair, not to mention if you remove it then Blacksmith and Armorer lose half their meaning in the game.

In FFXI, once you hit max level, for most jobs, overall cost eventually is minimized. For COR, NIN and RNG it remains as constant as it did during the EXP levels. It never stops. Why should you get to enjoy less maintenance when other jobs have to maintain a higher level their whole career, even in endgame?

FFXI's lack of wear and tear is, quite frankly, one of the largest sources of bullshit in the game. Because a scorpion harness can't be damaged, it isn't removed from the system. Eventually one day inflation hits and there's so much of it that it will permanently lose its value.

I'm not complaining about the maintenance my jobs had, I just don't think its fair other jobs were allowed to get by on less. Item permanence was murder on COR, NIN and RNG in the long run. The AH dried up on what those jobs needed to get by because people eventually realized they were getting a raw deal on those jobs and crafters were no longer able to sell ammo and tools, so they stopped and moved on to other crafts.

If you wanted to continue those jobs You either took up a craft - and the crafting system in FFXI is still horrible - or you moved on to another job if you couldn't get the tools and ammo (which only drove down demand for the crafters further).

This is the system you want back? Pfft.

adding durability to ff14 will not "level the playing field" like you are suggesting. it just means that jobs which don't use ammunition will have to spend money on repairing, and jobs that do spend money on ammunition will have to spend even MORE money than usual, to maintain their equipment. i think of how annoying it is when i'm out in the middle of nowhere in other games that have durability and my equipment breaks. i have to go back to town and pay a vendor to repair my items. it's not fun to spend hard-earned currency just to maintain what you already have, realistic or not. now imagine having to run back to town and then camp and shout for a high enough level crafter to repair your items, or level blacksmithing just to repair items... it will not be a fun feature for anyone.

the lack of durability in ffxi is not what caused the problems you are referencing. items like SH were unaffordable by the masses until much better gear became available and SE released a dozen ways to obtain venomous claws (we're talking 3 or 4 years). furthermore, jobs like RNG always crafted their own ammuntion for years. it wasn't until several years into the game, when there was an absurd surplus of gil, that the average player could afford to buy all of their ammunition on the AH.

the game is not based on reality, so saying that durability makes sense because it's "realistic" is bogus. i'm sure blacksmith and armorer can be given meaning other than JUST chilling in town and repairing people's gear. does that really sound fun?

[Kailea]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

side of limiting peoples playtime because for some reason you feel entitled judge people that like to play for long periods of time. Whether or not it is what we are speculating on is not the point, the point is that we are speculating that they WILL be limiting time in some fashion. You feel that it is perfectly fine to do. So do you feel that its ok to put limits on your tv, mp3 player, and whatever else since those can be abused to the point that it endangers your health in some fashion? Or is it just ok to judge geeks that like to plunk themselves down and immerse themselves in an alternate reality?

Judging people? wtf are you talking about -.- I dont feel entitled to anything, now your just sticking crap in my mouth -.-
I don't feel any company should limit anyone on any form of entertainment, and as I said, Surplus EXP is not a "fatigue" system. Do I know what it really is? No... does anyone else? No -.-

[jenova_9]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

but Komoto just said what it is exactly.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

Judging people?

thats the problem......you should not be playing that much to begin with.....

There is a big difference in responsible play, even if its 5 hours a day every day, and someone who is playing nonstop for 5-6 days on end..... that is a problem.

Yes, you are saying people that play for extended periods are a problem, thats called judging someone.

[Balfree]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

and even if its a problem, what is anyone's right to tell that to anyone? maybe if everyone was an underage here.. but clearly that is not the case and people do what the hell they want with their spare time

you are _not_ right, Kailea. get it through your head

[Bricklayer]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

For some reason, this whole debate reminds me of the progressive tax system.

Back on topic, Surplus Points sounds interesting, but the interview makes it sound like they won't be used for anything too good:

Surplus points currently have no use. However, there are opinions saying preparing some kind of reward would be good, but that's just giving people something else to strive for, which misses the whole point of this system. We want to take our time and thoroughly investigate this issue.

So, SP probably won't be transferable as skill points to other classes, or show up as skill points a week later when the timer resets. They probably won't be redeemable for good in-game items. Maybe you'll be able to trade 10,000 Surplus Points for a potion (does FFXIV have potions?) or something.

[Durahansolo]

Re: Beta Testers unite to force SE to remove Fatigue system?

, I guess we could start a protector squad to like protect and rescue other parties, or something to pass the time in Eorzea....

Yeah.... Bout that...