subjob: choosing the proper class...

[robbot]

perhaps the topic should be, "choosing the proper class for YOU".

i'm leaning towards subbing as rdm per icemage's previous posts. eventually i'll return to blm as suggested by many others. i say "return" because i already have a few lvls in blm. down the line would one stay as blm or give smn a try?

as always, comments/suggestions are appreicated.




thanks,
robbot

[Oddin]

Well if youre going for summoner, dont go to it for the summons because they wont be that great when summoner is subbed. The only reason to go with summoner sub is when you get the ability to regen MP (i think thats at lvl 30 correct me if im wrong). Redmage doesnt make sense to me as a sub for mages. With redmage you get a bit of Mp and thats about it. Mages arent for meleeing so you dont need the en- spells. The bar- spells you get as WHM. The only thing i see worth anything is the Mp and you might as well go with BLM.

[Icemage]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are distinct break points where different subs get significantly better for WHM due to specific spells, traits, or abilities. I've italicized the spells, abilities, and traits I think are of particular importance.

WHM/RDM: I still seem to be in the minority about this, but I think this is hands down the strongest sub prior to WHM34.

Additional combat skill: Parry

WHM16/RDM8: Spell - Blind
WHM20/RDM10: Spell - Bio
WHM20/RDM10: Trait - Resist Petrify
WHM22/RDM11: Spell - Bind
WHM30/RDM15: Trait - Fast Cast I
WHM40/RDM20: Trait - Magic Attack Up I
WHM42/RDM21: Spell - Gravity
WHM50/RDM25: Spell - Sleep
WHM50/RDM25: Trait - Magic Defense Up I
WHM60/RDM30: Trait - Resist Petrify II
WHM62/RDM31: Trait - Clear Mind I
WHM66/RDM33: Spell - Phalanx
WHM68/RDM34: Spell - Dispel
WHM70/RDM35: Trait - Fast Cast II


WHM/BLM: The most popular choice at high levels. Without further ado...

WHM8/BLM4: Spell - Blind
WHM14/BLM7:Spell - Bind
WHM20/BLM10: Spell - Bio
WHM20/BLM10: Trait - Magic Attack Up I
WHM30/BLM15: Trait - Clear Mind I
WHM30/BLM15: Ability - Elemental Seal
WHM34/BLM17: Spell - Warp
WHM40/BLM20: Spell - Sleep
WHM40/BLM20: Trait - Conserve MP
WHM50/BLM25: Spell - Tractor
WHM58/BLM29: Spell - Escape
WHM60/BLM30: Trait - Magic Attack Up II
WHM62/BLM31: Spell - Sleepga


WHM/SMN: The cure tank specialists among white mages, they are intensely focused on MP, at the cost of flexibility.

WHM20/SMN10: Trait -MP Boost I
WHM40/SMN20: Trait - Resist Slow
WHM30/SMN15: Trait - Clear Mind I
WHM50/SMN25: Trait - MP Refresh
WHM50/SMN25: Ability - Garuda - Aerial Armor(party Blink)
WHM60/SMN30: Trait - Clear Mind II
WHM60/SMN30: Trait -MP Boost II

Hopefully this helps people understand what you get, in practical terms, from each subjob as a WHM.


Icemage

[Calianeri]

Icemage, I think you left "accidentally" left off the WHM/SMN ability to use Carbuncle's Healing Ruby and Shining Ruby... :p

Seriously, though, with the 10/21/03 patch SMN now also gets Clear Mind, at levels 15 and 30 (and also 45 and 60, but we're talking about subjobs).

I'm curious to see first-hand how SMN works out as a sub -- it never really impressed me when I saw people using it in beta. So I'm in no rush, and my BLM sub is quite effective.

[Icemage]

Ooops, forgot about the Clear Mind additions in the last update. I've edited the above post to take those into account. Thanks for correcting me, Calianeri!

As for Carbuncle's abilities... *lol*... I'm sure someone out there likes a really ineffecient Cure spell that you can only cast once per minute(and continually lose MP while Carbuncle is out), but that someone isn't me. Ditto on the area-effect Shell/Protect. There's a reason why you never almost never see SMN use these abilities in a group - they're just not particularly good.


Icemage

[robbot]

good info, as always.

i'll probably sub rdm first, then blm.

[Navia]

I have to agree with the *lol* on carbuncle heal - the only time I would use it would be if I was SMN/BLM with carbuncle out already fighting and someone could use a heal :p .
I can't believe this heal doesn't scale with level...:confused:

I really like debuffing monsters and i've had my eye on the SMN/RDM combo awhile. Problem is I have to stop playing SMN to raise RDM then and my mog safe has no room to hold RDM gear along with all the other stuff I have :sweat:

[LeFaye]

Can someone explain the difference between teleport for WHM and warp on BLM ?

[Silkiv]

Well some sites also say
Whm/Rdm 62/31 - Clear Mind
Whm/Rdm 70/35 - Fast Cast
Whm/Smn 60/30 - MP boost
so they may possibly be incorrect.

Warp takes you back to your home point, Teleport takes you to one of the crags.. depending on which one you cast.

[Icemage]

I've added the above mentioned abilities to the list. Thanks for the further clarifications!


Icemage

[FF Fan]

I notice that there is a bug when you sub BLM. Actually it was brought to my attention by my party mate as I though clear mind for blm is a lvl 10 passive ability. Clear mind is clearly a lvl 15 passive ability but you will get it when you sub it at lvl 10. When my WHM reached lvl 20, my passive abilities include clear mind. Anyone can confirm this?

[Calianeri]

FF Fan, WHMs get Clear Mind at level 20 regardless of what you use as a subjob. So with a BLM sub, you'll get a second Clear Mind at WHM30/BLM15.

Edit: As discussed in other threads, this is apparently not the case. The trait is the same for both jobs, so it does not stack.

[Aghama]

Originally posted by Icemage

WHM/RDM: I still seem to be in the minority about this, but I think this is hands down the strongest sub prior to WHM34.

I don't see that at all. I love being a RDM, but I'm leveling up my BLM right now (19 currently) and having a RDM sub isn't doing much for me besides curing. Looking at your list of skills/traits, the RDM sub doesn't get any useful, unique abilities until level 15 with fast cast. So you're essentially telling me that RDM is the hands-down best sub for WHM between 30 and 34. At 60+ having a RDM sub could be pretty groovy, but until then I'd rather have warp & some more MP.

[Telona]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere here that clear mind from BLM and WHM won't stack though? If that's true then the clear mind traits you list for WHM62/RDM31, WHM30/BLM15 and WHM30/SMN15 should be removed since that ability is already possessed by the WHM at 20? I presume that since you have Clear Mind listed twice for SMN that the 2nd one (at WHM60/SMN30) is an upgrade to the initial 3 point Clear Mind?

[Icemage]

All I can tell you is that right now, at level 35, I wouldn't trade my RDM sub for my BLM sub in combat. /BLM isn't really more potent than /RDM until WHM40/BLM20 when you get access to MP Conserve. Until then, the two are roughly equal in combat. Warp is a nice thing to have at level 34 after a battle, as it can save you a lot of travel time if you plan ahead, but it really doesn't do anything for you, combat-wise.

I think the difference for me is that I am fairly diligent about keeping my defensive skills reasonably levelled (Parry and Shield). If you Parry skill is abysmally low, then yes, /RDM won't do anything for you. My Parry sitting at 22 right now, and kicks in about once every other battle if I get aggro for any significant length of time. I actively try to bring it up, too, when I'm not playing WHM. If you don't have much Parry skill, then yes, one of the big perks of /RDM sub isn't helping you at all.


Icemage